Going it alone

[yelnad]

I'm 30 and my spouse is 34. I'm the saver and he's the spender. He must have ALL of the new toys. We both work FT (and more) and he earns about 2x what I earn. What saves us is that he covers pretty much all of our expenses. I only pay groceries and the property taxes. He does invest some (stocks, Roth, real estate), but since I have less expenses, I'm able to save much more than I would on my own. And as soon as my car is paid off, I'll have even more to throw into that pot. In the end, we both make out...unless he leaves me, in which case he's screwed for retirement.

Donna

 

[sgeeeee]

. . . How different are your significant others' views, and did you have to make concessions on what your 'ideal' significant others' financial views would have to be compared to what their actual views are?

Peter

Hi Peter,

I met my DW when we were working in the same dishroom in college -- working our way through school. She was 20 and I was 21. We "dated" for about 2 weeks (one of them being finals week), then hitchhiked across the country together (Illinois to California and back). On returning, we decided to get married but did not have enough money to buy a marriage license, so I hithhiked across the state and put up hay for a couple of days to earn the money. When we married we had under $25 to our names. We did not consider each other's investing habits, or long term work goals, or just about anything else that would seem to make good sense. We were in love. . . and still are. (Although sometimes I think she's started to become more rational and wonders what kind of huge mistake she actually made).

We are 49 and 50 now and have been retired for about a year. We never received an inheritance or windfall of any kind so our retirement was reached entirely through our own work, saving and investing. We worked for a couple of years after getting our undergraduate degrees (hers in Dietetics, mine in electrical engineering). We quit so I could go back to graduate school and then while I was finishing up my dissertation, she went back to school and got an electrical engineering degree too. We both were fortunate enough to be fully employed during the mid- to late 80's and throughout the 90's by Electronics firms that did well. And we benefited by not being greedy, but taking profits from stock and redistributing it to other investments. We were very fortunate to make enough money that we had no trouble saving and investing while never denying ourselves much of anything we wanted.

We traveled to Europe, South America and the mid-East using my speaking engagements and conference appearances to pay for much of the trips. Even in our 40's we backpacked and stayed for cheap when we traveled -- not because we needed to, but because that's the kind of travel we enjoyed. Similarly, our vacations often involved things like tents, backpacks and camper shells. We were never tempted to buy a McMansion style home simply because we qualified to do so. These views we held in common and that clearly helps.

We are both far more frugal than our ex-colleagues(learned while trying to balance purchases of books and supplies with food and shelter back in our early college days). But we are not nearly as frugal as many who post regularly on this board. I think we could have learned to be quite happy living at a financial level significantly below where we ended up, but there was no need for us to do that. After all, we both started from much humbler beginnings.

We certainly don't agree about everything financial. Some things we work out through compromise while some things are a source of continuous debate. My DW is not very interested in investment specifics. But she does want every decision to be made with her awareness. She is happy to let me do the research and propose investment choices to her for approval and questioning.

That's pretty much how it works for us.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Hey Pete...

Theres another solution for you, pretty much the one I took.

Just date like crazy for the next 15-20 years. Then when you're in your forties and everyone is starting to realize they need to do something about saving money and retiring, you'll find the dating pool full of people like-minded financially.

Not to mention all of your personalities will be 'set'. No "growing apart" or "becoming different people".

The problem appears to be the 20's/30's mindset of 'live for today'. Many people who manage to save and ER are simply financially mature for their ages.

I had a bazillion chances to get married from 20-40. Looking back, most of them would have been a really bad idea just on face value. The worse part is that I would have been tied down, needed to be a lot more conservative in my financial and career decisions, and I wouldnt have been able to take a lot of the chances I took that led me to ER.

On the other hand, you miss out on 10-15 years of marriage, and having kids early.

A quick glance at my friends who have been married 10-15 years suggests that this isnt much of a liability

 

[brewer12345]

I've read some peoples' comments (like John Galt's) who say that they marry spouses who aren't as cost-conscious as themselves. How different are your significant others' views, and did you have to make concessions on what your 'ideal' significant others' financial views would have to be compared to what their actual views are?

Peter

My wife and I met in college and were engaged before we graduated. Since she is 31 and I am less than a month from that age, we have had plenty of time to grow toegether and work out any significant differences on the subject of money. However, my wife has always been very frugal, to the point where she still agonizes over buying a pair of sneakers (which she does perhaps once a year), or modestly priced baby clothes (when the kiddo is bursting out of everything we have for her). This has largely been a help, since I don't have to fight the battle of the checkbook every month.

Since we were together before either of us had a cent to our names and have fairly similar views about money, we have always managed our money together. I tend to do the actual implementation, both because of inclination and ability. My wife is on board and I take pains to keep her in the loop as to what we own and how we are doing. However, any detailed discussions usually get cut off with expresssions of boredom on her part. I suppose that it is a flattering vote of confidence on her part.

 

[bow-tie]

However, any detailed discussions usually get cut off with expresssions of boredom on her part.  I suppose that it is a flattering vote of confidence on her part.

So that's what it is when my wife's eyes glaze over.  Its a vote of confidence

 

[brewer12345]

So that's what it is when my wife's eyes glaze over.  Its a vote of confidence  

Hey, as long as it only happens when you are discussing finances, its no problem...

 

[BigMoneyJim]

Women have eyes?


(no wonder I'm single)

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Women have eyes?

Hey Jim - Nobody was more surprised than I was when I discovered this.

 

[unclemick]

The eyes are the part you feel starting at you when you get caught looking at the non eye parts - experienced that look a a very young age.

 

[bow-tie]

The eyes are the part you feel starting at you when you get caught looking at the non eye parts - experienced that look a a very young age.

HA! That is awesome. So true.

 

[Bridget]

These are all great stories - I have the following philosophy and am fortunate that my parents supported me in this (or perhaps encouraged me?) while growing up.

As a woman, I still consider myself responsible for supporting myself in some form or fashion-if that means I need to work in a job that would normally be thought of as "beneath" my degree qualifications, then so be it. I find it very difficult to not contribute in the offensive as well as defensive ways (earning and saving).

I think that if you work to surround yourself with people who think the same or go to places where people have similar interests, you will find someone who can be a compatible mate. I do believe you should be very picky in this category, though, as it is a decision that have a huge impact on your life - probably one of the most important ones - it can bring happiness or misery and fortune or poverty.

I also believe that if you become comfortable with yourself and realize that you are truly alone anyhow, you will begin to attract people who will like you for who you are and not what you have - this may sound crazy, but as I get older, I realize how much my personal attitude and mental outlook is reflected in the people around me, the experiences I have: my environment in general.

It can be sad being lonely, but once you understand it and make 'peace' with it, doors and windows start opening.

Deserat

 

[Whisper9999]

These are all great stories - I have the following philosophy and am fortunate that my parents supported me in this (or perhaps encouraged me?) while growing up.

As a woman, I still consider myself responsible for supporting myself in some form or fashion-if that means I  need to work in a job that would normally be thought of as "beneath" my degree qualifications, then so be it.  I find it very difficult to not contribute in the offensive as well as defensive ways (earning and saving).

I think that if you work to surround yourself with people who think the same or go to places where people have similar interests, you will find someone who can be a compatible mate.  I do believe you should be very picky in this category, though, as it is a decision that have a huge impact on your life - probably one of the most important ones - it can bring happiness or misery and fortune or poverty.

I also believe that if you become comfortable with yourself and realize that you are truly alone anyhow, you will begin to attract people who will like you for who you are and not what you have - this may sound crazy, but as I get older, I realize how much my personal attitude and mental outlook is reflected in the people around me, the experiences I have: my environment in general.

It can be sad being lonely, but once you understand it and make 'peace' with it, doors and windows start opening.

Deserat

Good advice!

 

[MJ]

It can be sad being lonely, but once you understand it and make 'peace' with it, doors and windows start opening.Deserat

Very insighful.

I am still trying to make peace with it.

MJ

 

[John Galt]

Lonely? Sometimes that can be much better than being with someone

Anyway, I've been a part of a couple and I've been totally
single. As Clint Eastwood said in 'Bridges of Madison County', " I may be a loner but I'm not a monk."
You need to balance the big advantage of doing whatever you want whenever you want, with
the enhancement of your life in a relationship,
which requires consideration of your SO's feelings. It's a tough call for some.

I offer no advice. My record is not that good.

John Galt

 

[BUM]

Part of my impression is based on going online to a well-known singles site and reading the profiles.  I think out of the hundreds of profiles I read - yeah, I know I need a life   - every female wanted the "royal carpet" treatment.  And I can't say as I blame them.  Who wants to be married to someone non-fun and boring and non-romantic, etc.?

In my case it was the girl-next-door thing. No personality typing, interviews, speed dates, pre-nups, HIV tests; Hell, we were both teenagers. "I can get the car Friday night. How about the drive-in? By the way, you look really neat in those new pedal pushers."

Ah, those were simpler times... Eight years later we married (at 21) and just celebrated our 30th WA. Our strugle towards FI was pretty straightforward. I would earn, earn, earn, and she would save, save, save.

Now at 53 we are winding down the family biz and trying to figure out whats next and where. I can still get the car on Friday night (choice of 4). Drive-ins are however now replaced by HBO. And she STILL looks swell in those pedal pushers.

They're out there Whisper9999. Finding them is half the fun.

Lucky-in-love,

BUM

 

[John Galt]

Hey BUM! Your story is nice. Mine is similar
except I would earn, earn, earn and my spouse (ex)
would spend, spend, spend

BTW, my current spouse and I met on-line. Coming up on 4 years. Relationships can be a lot of work. The
good ones are worth it.

John Galt

 

[BUM]

YOU GO GALT!

BUM

 

[dex]

John,
I've looked at Match.com.
What was your experiece like.
I'm thinking of trying it.
Any advise?
txs

 

[haha]

John,
I've looked at Match.com.
What was your experiece like.
I'm thinking of trying it.
Any advise?
txs

I'm not John, and I think John stated that he found his wife through an online process. So that is real success.

Several of my women friends use Match.com. They are both cute, but pretty used to being single, and maybe not real eager to pass the USDA inspection process.

Anyway, they have had a lot of coffee dates, and a few dinners. None were bad, but obviously nothing was going anywhere.

In fact, it astonishes me whenever middle-aged people who are not old friends become long term lovers. How can this happen? Falling in love requires blindness to reality that is much easier to achieve when you are young.

I was sitting with one of the women mentioned above the day after a Match.com date. It was hysterical, although I didn't laugh. Her requirements were first that he be "presentable"-- you know, middle class or better job, OK car, reasonable house or apartment. But that was only the start. He had to hate George Bush. He had to be a skilled dancer, including swing and salsa. He had to be at least a few inches taller than she-and she is 5' 8". A little belly is ok, but.....

Anyway, I am sure his requirements were similarly hopeless, so they both continue to run their ads.

One thing that definitely promotes people getting together is disaster. There were several marriages among middle aged people in my dance community after 9/11. I think hurricanes have the same effect.

You are probably young; I didn't check. You have likely thought of or even tried the suggestions I am about to make. So, I apologize for my presumption. But here goes.

If I were young and looking for a woman, I would do some heavy thinking about what type I wanted, and go make myself useful in an environment where those sorts of women might be found. For example, I have found that nurses are an easy group of people for me to like. So I would see if I could maybe volunteer in a hospital, or somewhere that I might come into contact with nurses in an everyday, "getting something useful done" environment. Then be competent, friendly, and casual. So many people are lonely that you almost have to make some hookups.

Mikey

 

[John Galt]

I was single for about 3 years and did a lot of dating.
Most connections were through Matchmaker and similar
sites. I thought it was good fun, and very efficient.
I could sit at my computer and find out lots of information before ever making a decision to meet. Also, you knew the other person was looking too, so that
eliminated approaching people who had no interest in
dating.
Looking back now (although obviously there were some
disasters), Internet dating seemed to go a lot smoother
than traditional ways of meeting people. Anyway, even
if I had not met my spouse on line, I would still highly
recommend it.

John Galt

 

[yelnad]

I met my husband through match.com. I think it works well for two types of people:
1 - Those who have been married before and really know what they're looking for (or not working for) -- this was us.
2 - Those who are extremely introverted and don't get out much.

 

[dex]

You have likely thought of or even tried the suggestions I am about to make. So, I apologize for my presumption. But here goes.

If I were young and looking for a woman, I would do some heavy thinking about what type I wanted, and go make myself useful in an environment where those sorts of women might be found. For example, I have found that nurses are an easy group of people for me to like. So I would see if I could maybe volunteer in a hospital, or somewhere that I might come into contact with nurses in an everyday, "getting something useful done" environment. Then be competent, friendly, and casual. So many people are lonely that you almost have to make some hookups.

Mikey

Mikey and John, thanks for the replys.
Mikey I'm 49 and people say I look younger - I shave my head - people can't tell your age without the hair for some reason.

I'm living in a suburb of Atlanta and it is tough just seeing people no less meeting interesting people. No one walks, I can't walk to a bar. I'm not too hard to please really, intellegent conversation, movies, dinner, plays, (I don't own a TV) walks, mountain biking, road biking and a vacation every once and awhile. The one funny thing I read in the personal adds is so many mention that they like the outdoors - hiking etc that you would think it is a great place to meet someone. I never see a soul!
I think it is easy to talk with nurses since they are usually people persons, who are used to helping people and see a lot of life's problems - maybe a bit more realistic than most in their expectations.
Thanks for the advise.

 

[John Galt]

I don't know why I feel compelled to post this except
it seems appropriate since we've been discussing dating. During
my "single" years I met a woman (psychologist) who seemed to have absolutely everything. Same politics
(no kidding), very smart (Mensa member), successful,
nice kids, very attractive. My expectations for our first date were sky high. A total disaster start to finish. I will spare you the details, but geez,
you'd think a psychologist could have a great time being
around me

John Galt

 

[wabmester]

I recently watched part of some stupid reality show, and they pulled some stupid stunt, but the stats were really interesting.

An average guy stops a bunch of women on the street and asks them 1 of 3 questions:

1) would you go out on a date with me?
2) would you come home with me?
3) would you have sex with me?

About 50% of women said yes to (1). About 10% said yes to (2). And 0% said yes to (3).

Same question asked by a female to random males:

About 50% of men said yes to (1), about 90% said yes to (2), and about 90% said yes to (3).

 

[Jarhead*]

I recently watched part of some stupid reality show, and they pulled some stupid stunt, but the stats were really interesting.

An average guy stops a bunch of women on the street and asks them 1 of 3 questions:

1) would you go out on a date with me?
2) would you come home with me?
3) would you have sex with me?

About 50% of women said yes to (1).   About 10% said yes to (2).   And 0% said yes to (3).

Same question asked by a female to random males:

About 50% of men said yes to (1), about 90% said yes to (2), and about 90% said yes to (3).

Which proves 2 points. One, we already know. (Men are pigs). Two, 10% of the male population are gay.