Internet Diagnosis

[nwsteve]

The second tech thought of this too. He shut off the wireless router on the modem so that router and mine were not conflicting. I never used their router, and that didn't really make sense, but the irritating thing is that I've been paying for that router the whole time. No one ever asked me if I needed it. Now I think I'll save about $10/month with it being shut off.

Not sure if you have already done this but you can probably save another 10/mon by buying your own modem. One downside, is that Spectrum will be less interested in fixing anything they don't own.

 

[nwsteve]

The second tech thought of this too. He shut off the wireless router on the modem so that router and mine were not conflicting. I never used their router, and that didn't really make sense, but the irritating thing is that I've been paying for that router the whole time. No one ever asked me if I needed it. Now I think I'll save about $10/month with it being shut off.

Not sure if you have already done this but you can probably save another 10/mon by buying your own modem. One downside, is that Spectrum will be less interested in fixing anything they don't own.

 

[pb4uski]

I think that dirty power is Spectrum stonewalling when they just don't know what the problem is. Unless you know someone who has a UPS that you can borrow, I guess the only thing that you can do is to temporarily turn off all power from the box to the house other than the circuit that powers the modem and test for interference.

I like the idea of running a line back to their box and testing it there.

These internet/cable companies are scumbuckets and are the first ones to blame any owner provided equipment for their problems.... I can see that sometimes it might be customer provided equipment but they jump to that conclusion really quickly.

I have Spectrum internet and they provide a modem at no charge... I provide the router.

 

[misanman]

If you get a UPS, then I think you would want one that does power conditioning (AC to DC to AC). I believe that some of the cheaper ones do not. Maybe someone more knowledgeable will correct me if I'm wrong on this.

 

[statsman]

The second tech thought of this too. He shut off the wireless router on the modem so that router and mine were not conflicting. I never used their router, and that didn't really make sense, but the irritating thing is that I've been paying for that router the whole time. No one ever asked me if I needed it. Now I think I'll save about $10/month with it being shut off.

Have you played around with only the modem's router active? Sorry, this thread has gotten long and confusing, so it's hard to follow. Have you tried it with your wireless router powered off and out of the loop?

I don't see how you save $10/month by shutting off the cable modem's wireless router. You still need to use a modem, so unless you have your own modem, you will need to rent one from Spectrum.

 

[Jerry1]

If you get a UPS, then I think you would want one that does power conditioning (AC to DC to AC). I believe that some of the cheaper ones do not. Maybe someone more knowledgeable will correct me if I'm wrong on this.

I think you’re correct. I’m going to hold off on the UPS until I get a better understanding of what the tech is concerned about. I may have misunderstood. When davismills suggested running a separate coax cable, it made me think that the interference the tech was concerned about may no have been in the power, but from the power. Maybe the coax cable is too close to a power line and that’s the interference he was talking about.

May still get a UPS though and my bit of research suggests that you’re correct. The lower end UPS’s don’t condition the power output.

 

[target2019]

So I got the connector and hooked my laptop directly to the modem and was able to catch the problem at that point. So, the good news is that the problem is definitely somewhere from the modem out. I call and talked to the cable company and they put some sort of data capture on the equipment and a few days later, I called and they did confirm that they are seeing the problem. They sent out a different technician today. Once again, the guy traced the wire from their equipment on the pole into my house. He changed connectors and ensured that the wiring was all right and tight. He even saw interference while he was here. And that's the new problem. Anyway, he left and about a hour later, same issue.

While he was here, he said he saw the interference and asked me if I had any other equipment running in the house other than the refrigerator. He was trying to rule out weather or not there was electrical issues that were causing the modem to have noise. I did have a couple things running and unplugged them, but no changes. When he left, the signal on his equipment (the internet signal) was showing good.

So now I believe that if I call him back he will blame my electrical service. I discussed this with my brother (an electrician) and he said to get a ups system. That a ups would provide clean power. While we both think it is unlikely this is the issue, we both agreed that it was a reasonably inexpensive way to rule out my home electrical system as the issue. So, I guess I'm off to Amazon to buy a ups unless I can figure out an easier/cheaper way to ensure that the power going to the modem is clean. I believe that once I do that, they will have no other alternative but to accept that it is something in their equipment that is causing the intermittent internet disruption. I guess there's also the remote possibility that it is my power and that's a win too because that will resolve the internet issue and then I can go from there to figure out what's going on with my home power.

If anyone has any advice on diagnosing a power issue or an piece of equipment that will provide clean power (cheaper than a ups), I'm fully open to suggestions.

Thanks for coming along for the intermittent internet outage circus. Any help to get off this ride is appreciated.

Some UPS units also provide power conditioning, although a dedicated power conditioner goes further. I do have UPS at the location I have cable modem and my router.

You're way down the rabbit hole now. You've eliminated the systems on your LAN as the problem, I think. Even an ethernet connected computer will lose its connection randomly.

The specific cable modem and your router model are important. The more network devices you have make troubleshooting by elimination difficult. But I'd check the firmware versions, and also search the network for scuttlebut about models and problems. I looked for the network map I suggested you put together, just to make certain everyone is on same page.

So the friendly net tech has been by, and could not solve the problem. If the problem is not a signal or equipment problem, they blame you, your power, etc. It is possible you have a power problem. Use a meter or plug-in fault tester to make sure.

The UPS, even without power conditioning might trip when you have the connection issue. Or the plug-in tester might show a basic wiring problem.

The logs in the modem and router are important too. Since you're there, and know when the problem occured, you can search the logs for error messages.

Another important thing is to look at wireless channels and chose the best ones for your location. Having the channels auto-switch can be a PIA.

The cable modem is something I'd change out. Take it to the cable provider and get a new one (not someone else's problem return). Or get the tech back and ask him why another modem won't fix the problem.

 

[Jerry1]

I looked for the network map I suggested you put together, just to make certain everyone is on same page.


It is possible you have a power problem. Use a meter or plug-in fault tester to make sure.


The cable modem is something I'd change out. Take it to the cable provider and get a new one (not someone else's problem return). Or get the tech back and ask him why another modem won't fix the problem.

Couple follow ups:
I did get a different modem from Spectrum early on hoping that was the problem. Not sure if it was new or reconditioned but it didn’t change anything.

I’ll retest, but I replaced all the outlets when I moved in here and checked them with one of those fault detectors that the inspector uses. I know it’s basic, but doesn’t show any problems. I’ve never used my multi meter to test for anything in house wiring other than voltage. If there’s something I can test with that, please point me in the right direction.

I’m a little confused in your focus on my wireless set up. I thought that once I determined that the issue was happening at the modem using a directly wired laptop, that I could rule out everything on my wireless system. FYI, my network is pretty simple. A wire from the modem goes to a mesh router (Orbi) with one satellite. That covers the entire house. Of course there’s a boat load of WiFi stuff on the network like my phone, iPads, computers, smart tv’s, smart switches and the like. Not sure if or how that comes into play.

Anyway, appreciate the help. Hopefully something will get this resolved. Thankfully, it’s only a bit irritating. It only goes out for a short time (under a minute) in most cases. Usually anything streaming has enough buffer that it never really shows up. It does impact my surfing because it will prevent pages from loading, but again, only for a short time. Then when it’s working, everything seem great. I get full speed internet (200 Mbps) with seeming no other issues. Go figure.

 

[target2019]

Couple follow ups:
I did get a different modem from Spectrum early on hoping that was the problem. Not sure if it was new or reconditioned but it didn’t change anything.

I’ll retest, but I replaced all the outlets when I moved in here and checked them with one of those fault detectors that the inspector uses. I know it’s basic, but doesn’t show any problems. I’ve never used my multi meter to test for anything in house wiring other than voltage. If there’s something I can test with that, please point me in the right direction.

I’m a little confused in your focus on my wireless set up. I thought that once I determined that the issue was happening at the modem using a directly wired laptop, that I could rule out everything on my wireless system. FYI, my network is pretty simple. A wire from the modem goes to a mesh router (Orbi) with one satellite. That covers the entire house. Of course there’s a boat load of WiFi stuff on the network like my phone, iPads, computers, smart tv’s, smart switches and the like. Not sure if or how that comes into play.

Anyway, appreciate the help. Hopefully something will get this resolved. Thankfully, it’s only a bit irritating. It only goes out for a short time (under a minute) in most cases. Usually anything streaming has enough buffer that it never really shows up. It does impact my surfing because it will prevent pages from loading, but again, only for a short time. Then when it’s working, everything seem great. I get full speed internet (200 Mbps) with seeming no other issues. Go figure.

There are things I usually try. I'm listing these as I refresh my memory of every weird problem I saw in the wild.

It's possible that the Spectrum modem (mfg/version?) and Orbi router do not work optimally together. Update and check the firmware and settings in each. One unknown setting in the modem configuration can cause a lot of headache. For example, if DHCP is coming from your router, then it should be off in the modem.

Check all outlets for proper wiring, connections. Loose connections can happen over time. A meter in the outlet might show a brownout when you loose the connection. Yeah, not fun to watch.

Other devices on the wiring, especially lighting, motors, high load stuff.

Someone else mentioned powerline running parallel to coax. That can happen.

If Orbi wireless radio is on, you haven't ruled it out. Turning off wireless in modem was helpful. Have you been able to run one of the free network anayzers? You may discover a nearby network on same channel, or maybe even in your home (Sonos e.g.). If you're wireless Orbi is on, and another wireless radio has strength on the channel, it causes auto-switch of channel for you. That doesn't happen in a millisecond. It can also cause a problem with the other services the router provides. Those type of problems develop with a new router, and over time firmware updates fix problems you and I say don't make sense when they happen.

We do hope that all of the devices we've plugged in make life wonderful. In my home (which is complicated) I know that each new device I add is a potential source of headache and may require fixing and reconfiguring. Without a diagram of everything you and I are working from memory and it tuns into a game of whack-a-mole.

 

[OldShooter]

I haven't had to buy a UPS in years, but one thing I learned back then is that some UPS vendors will tell you what battery will be needed when the first one dies, others try to keep it a secret so that you are forced to buy overpriced batteries from them. The one I have on my shelf right now is an Opti-UPS and the battery info is not proprietary.

Things might have changed but caveat emptor is always current.

 

[Jerry1]

Well I had my third visit from the cable company today and still not resolved. I’m going to try to escalate the issue and see if I can get someone who can actually help. Basically all the techs have done is replaced my wiring on piece at a time. Today the finally tried the drop from the pole to the house. The cable had some spots that looked rough, but we cut the cable open and nothing appeared to have exposed any wiring. Anyway, it didn’t work. Now I’ve changed out the modem and retired the entire run and there’s been absolutely no change in the issue I’m experiencing. At some point, they’re either going to have to figure out what’s going on with their signal/equipment, get someone here who can actually diagnose the problem or face losing a customer. I’m of the opinion that all cable companies suck so I’m going to give them as much time as I can possibly stand before I go shopping.

To be continued.

 

[Jerry1]

Final Update

Well today I hit a unfortunate milestone. After four visits, replacing all wiring and the modem the cable company has declared that there is no longer any issue. The unfortunate thing is that the issue is the same today as it was three months ago when this first started. In the call today, all they kept saying is that they see no problem from the router to their equipment. Nothing dropping out. The inference is that it must be my equipment. I use their modem and my router.

Another unfortunate thing is the modem. While it is supposed to be a better router, it only has one ethernet port. Therefore, it's a bit more difficult to hook my laptop directly to the modem since I have to unplug the router and thus the rest of the house. That makes it difficult to be surfing and then run some diagnostics on the laptop once the issues happens.

Regarding the laptop to modem. Midway during this process, I did hook up the laptop to the modem directly (different modem) and did see the issue. I haven't done that since the second visit because they swapped out the modem and because since nothing changed, I didn't see any point. So, I'll pick a night to run some ping's overnight and see what I capture. According to the cable company, I shouldn't capture anything, but we'll see.

Bottom line is that I'm looking at pricing to change over to WOW. I hate the thought of switching as I'm of the belief that it will just be different problems, but my current issue is frustrating enough that I just have to do something.

I appreciate the help from this group. I've learned a few things along the way. Just too bad that it seems this cannot be resolved.

 

[Sunset]

The bright side is that Wow should have some intro offer, which will be cheaper than cable.
I generally switch when the contract runs out, as neither seems to want to keep me at a reasonable price.

 

[easysurfer]

...

Another unfortunate thing is the modem. While it is supposed to be a better router, it only has one ethernet port. Therefore, it's a bit more difficult to hook my laptop directly to the modem since I have to unplug the router and thus the rest of the house. That makes it difficult to be surfing and then run some diagnostics on the laptop once the issues happens.

...

Your router only as one ethernet port? Doesn't really surprise me as seems wireless is the trend.

As for myself, I prefer to have things connected with an actual cable instead of wifi if possible.

My router only has 3 ethernet ports. When I bought it, all I had was just my desktop connected to the ethernet. Then later on I got a FireTV and Ooma and sometimes hook up my laptop.

To get by the 3 port situation, I added a switch which now gives me plenty of ports to choose from (in the picture, the switch with about 8 ports is on top of the router).

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

...
Another unfortunate thing is the modem. While it is supposed to be a better router, it only has one ethernet port. Therefore, it's a bit more difficult to hook my laptop directly to the modem since I have to unplug the router and thus the rest of the house. That makes it difficult to be surfing and then run some diagnostics on the laptop once the issues happens.
...

Jerry, just buy a cheap network switch, they start at $15-20. I have an 8-port switch connected to my router, then I have cables run through the walls to our two TVs, where I had a network wall jack installed in each room, and another 6 or 8 port switch plugged into each of those jacks for all the home entertainment devices, since HD video streaming needs a stable connection.

 

[OldShooter]

I hard wire where I can. I have found D-Link DGS-2208 switches to be cheap and reliable. I have two at home plus one as a cold spare (never used in several years) plus one at our lake home where there is less connected hardware.

WiFi has gotten better, so maybe this is no longer necessary. The ability of boxes to find each other in a DHCP environment has gotten better, too, but my habit is still to assign hard addresses to things like printers and NAS boxes. Even paranoids have enemies.

 

[retire-early]

Your router only as one ethernet port?

He wrote his cable modem has one Ethernet port.
Mine does as well.

I chose to have separate cable modem and router.
The cable modem is connected to the router.
My router has 4 Ethernet port, so I connected an unmanaged switch box with 8 Gigabit Ethertnet ports. This gives me 11 ports --- one of the ports is for the router to switch connection.

 

[Jerry1]

He wrote his cable modem has one Ethernet port.
Mine does as well.

Thanks. Yes, my modem. I’ll look into a switch, but I’m reluctant to spend anymore time or money on this. I’ll just unplug the router and set up a laptop directly wired to the modem at night for a night or two and see what happens.

Mentally, I’m kinda with Sunset - see if I can save some money and just shift over to WOW. I just want to take on last shot at confirming it’s not my equipment. I’d hate to go through a conversation to WOW only to find I have the same problem.

 

[easysurfer]

He wrote his cable modem has one Ethernet port.
Mine does as well.

I chose to have separate cable modem and router.
The cable modem is connected to the router.
My router has 4 Ethernet port, so I connected an unmanaged switch box with 8 Gigabit Ethertnet ports. This gives me 11 ports --- one of the ports is for the router to switch connection.

My hookup is similar to your hookup.

Cable modem - 1 ethernet port
router - 3 ports
switch - 8 ports

 

[OldShooter]

... money ...

Eighteen bucks deliveered: https://www.amazon.com/D-Link-DGS-2...+gigabit&qid=1611771857&s=electronics&sr=1-17 Just sayin'

 

[Jerry1]

Eighteen bucks deliveered: https://www.amazon.com/D-Link-DGS-2...+gigabit&qid=1611771857&s=electronics&sr=1-17 Just sayin'

Actually, they have one for $16.

But - On a technical note, that would be introducing another piece of equipment into the equation. If I was going to do that, I think it would be equally correct to just use the one extra outlet that’s on the router. My router has the main Ethernet connection that I plug the cable from the modem in and it also has one other Ethernet port. Wouldn’t plugging into that be the same as plugging into a switch? And, isn’t that about the same as plugging directly to the modem at least as far as removing the possibility that it’s my wireless connection causing the problem?

 

[OldShooter]

Actually, they have one for $16.

But - On a technical note, that would be introducing another piece of equipment into the equation. If I was going to do that, I think it would be equally correct to just use the one extra outlet that’s on the router. My router has the main Ethernet connection that I plug the cable from the modem in and it also has one other Ethernet port. Wouldn’t plugging into that be the same as plugging into a switch? And, isn’t that about the same as plugging directly to the modem at least as far as removing the possibility that it’s my wireless connection causing the problem?

So you just saved two bucks. Nice!

Fear of unnecessary hardware is always a good attitude. My view is colored by the fact that I have been using these exact model switches for years and they have been as reliable as rocks.

Yes, just plugging into the router should work and there's no need to add a switch if the only hardwired connection you'll ever have is just the one. I have kind of lost track of all the ins and outs here, though. I guess this is a good and educational hobby for you.

 

[Jerry1]

Yeah, I needed a hobby, but this wasn’t at all what I had in mind.

 

[OldShooter]

Life is like school, only first you get the test and then you get the education.

 

[target2019]

Actually, they have one for $16.

But - On a technical note, that would be introducing another piece of equipment into the equation. If I was going to do that, I think it would be equally correct to just use the one extra outlet that’s on the router. My router has the main Ethernet connection that I plug the cable from the modem in and it also has one other Ethernet port. Wouldn’t plugging into that be the same as plugging into a switch? And, isn’t that about the same as plugging directly to the modem at least as far as removing the possibility that it’s my wireless connection causing the problem?

As you elevate to network guru status, remember that switches are dumb, while routers are smart.