is it the battery or the starter?

[ERD50]

Update.
...

I will be installing the new battery this afternoon.

Stay tuned.

Not the first time I've seen dangerous suggestions made in auto repair (and other repair/troubleshooting) threads. ~"Caveat emptor


A good man always knows his limitations!

Well, I'm going to continue my warnings.

I sure hope the OP knows exactly how to change a battery.

I know, some people will say "what's the big deal, done it dozens of times?", but don't forget that a battery can produce many hundreds of amps of current, and is filled with sulfuric acid , and can have some explosive hydrogen gas in it.

If your wrench slips, and contacts any grounded metal and the positive post at the same time, the results can be very, very serious. That amount of current can create a tremendous amount of heat in the battery, with very bad results. I know someone who had a battery explode while they were under the hood, and lucky for them, they had a garden hose nearby and were able to get water on their face and eyes to flush out the acid.

I don't mess around with safety issues. If you aren't aware of these dangers, get someone who is to do the change out.

-ERD50

 

[springnr]

Not to belabor this (which I guess is exactly what I am going to do! ), but actually, the procedure you describe could lead to the problem of a high voltage spike (but not the 'spark at the battery' issue - unless they tried to reconnect it while running - who knows?).

If the car started with the lithium pack after disconnecting the main battery, then the alternator would be kicking in, and w/o the load of the main battery, the voltage could get to levels that could damage electronics. Maybe it would be fine, but there really is no need to risk it.
-ERD50

ERD here is a video from Noco, about using the GB40 that i linked in my removed post. The video shows how to override the units safety circuits if the vehicles battery is below 2vdc. Although not verbalized it is clear they want the dead battery to remain in circuit. Modern engine electronic control/computers are quite pricey, not to mention hospital bills.

 

[Car-Guy]

I don't mess around with safety issues.

-ERD50

+1

 

[GravitySucks]

The whirring sound makes me think the bendix is bad. A click and nothing would sound like a bad battery. Click and nothing means the starter is not cranking the motor. Click and whir means the starter is spinning but not hooked up to the engine.

Yup.
Try hitting the starter with a rubber mallet. That used to work in an emergency back in the 70s.... Well 80s on 70s cars....

Sent from my LM-Q850 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

 

[Jeffman52]

LOL we dealt with this as teenagers owning old cars. Very common. It could be any of the above.


I get the safety thing but not everything needs a professional to make sure you dont hurt yourself.


If the Starter gear is turning but not engaging with the engine (flywheel) then the solenoid is not working. Its nothing but an arm that pushes the starter gear into the engine to make it turn to start the engine. As others have said, on newer cars this is an all in one thing. Starter and Solenoid is one thing.


Could it be the battery? Yes but normally if its the battery it wont engage the starter either. I would expect this to be a starter/solenoid issue and not anything else.


Just for fun, when I was a kid we used to short the solenoid with a screwdriver by going across the terminals with a screwdriver. It made a bunch of sparks but started. Not recommending anyone try this but this was life in the 70's for me.



Oh and as "GravitySucks" said, hitting it was a thing back in the day. It wouldnt work for long but when the "bendix" (brand name for bushings) were stuck that worked.

 

[Car-Guy]

Just for fun, when I was a kid we used to short the solenoid with a screwdriver by going across the terminals with a screwdriver. It made a bunch of sparks but started. Not recommending anyone try this but this was life in the 70's for me.

That brings back memories from the 60's and 70's. I had a solenoid once that would fail "intermittently" and I couldn't afford a new one. Fortunately the car was an automatic and the solenoid was also mounted on the firewall, so it was easy to access.

Shorting across a solenoid is not recommended! But it's "especially" dangerous/deadly if it's a manual transmission vehicle that is in gear... If you don't understand the danger in that statement, you certainly have no business working on cars, IMO.

(BTW) the orientation of the terminals on some solenoids are such that you can't short the terminals with a screwdriver. But a pair of pliers works.

 

[ls99]

In the seventies I used rent a dingy room out in the Cold Bay airport. I t was still the old WWII building, pretty ratty, but then no hotels in town.
One morning before the incoming Reeve flight the cargo coddlers noted no sart on the forklift. Thye would have to manually unload the YS11 airplane. I said to the airport manager, let me have a look see. It was a bad keyswitch.
Using a scredriver to engage the starter, with some spark the thing cranked. I was a diesel.

For the next few years no charge for room at at the airport.
BTW landing and takoff are tricky, ocean on both ends of runway, a Baldy mountain on one side.
And in 1942 the Japanese bombed the town.

 

[retire-early]

Update.

New battery installed.

Same problem.

Will be calling tow truck on Monday.

 

[ncbill]

Update.

New battery installed.

Same problem.

Will be calling tow truck on Monday.

Did Advance Auto quick-test your alternator before installing the battery?

 

[Aerides]

Did Advance Auto quick-test your alternator before installing the battery?

it seems the OP just took the battery to the store, then came home and put it in the car.

 

[Jeffman52]

That brings back memories from the 60's and 70's. I had a solenoid once that would fail "intermittently" and I couldn't afford a new one. Fortunately the car was an automatic and the solenoid was also mounted on the firewall, so it was easy to access.

Shorting across a solenoid is not recommended! But it's "especially" dangerous/deadly if it's a manual transmission vehicle that is in gear... If you don't understand the danger in that statement, you certainly have no business working on cars, IMO.

(BTW) the orientation of the terminals on some solenoids are such that you can't short the terminals with a screwdriver. But a pair of pliers works.

OMG now that is funny. Forgot about the manual transmission. ***Comes in crazy eyed with tire tracks across their body*** "Ummm let me give ya'll a little advice"

 

[NW-Bound]

Did Advance Auto quick-test your alternator before installing the battery?

it seems the OP just took the battery to the store, then came home and put it in the car.

The engine still did not turn over with the new battery. There was no way to test the alternator before he gets the engine to run.

 

[Montecfo]

Update.

New battery installed.

Same problem.

Will be calling tow truck on Monday.

Street?

Time to pay up.

 

[Aerides]

I think about 2/3 of y'all need to bow out.

 

[Jerry1]

Street?

Time to pay up.

I think about 2/3 of y'all need to bow out.

Yep, thought for sure it was the battery, but I did get nervous when the OP said there was a whirling noise instead of the typical clicking.

 

[Car-Guy]

Not sure where you (OP) live in NJ but a lot of the bigger populated areas have "Mobile Mechanics" these days... Basically they come to your house and fix minor auto problems (like the one I'm sure you have)... You may find it more convenient and maybe cheaper than having it towed somewhere. Again, if it's the starter, it's only a 30 to 45 min job.


Just an option to consider.

 

[NW-Bound]

Just for fun, when I was a kid we used to short the solenoid with a screwdriver by going across the terminals with a screwdriver. It made a bunch of sparks but started. Not recommending anyone try this but this was life in the 70's for me...

I once stranded myself at a gas station, because I locked the key in the trunk. I was in college in 76.

I was checking the pressure of the spare tire, and stupidly put the car key down in the trunk instead of in my pocket. The moment I slammed the trunk shut was also when I recognized my mistake. Damn!

The car door however was not locked, and with this Mustang 69, the ignition key did not lock the steering wheel.

I went around to bum for a piece of electrical wire from other motorists. Somehow, I was lucky and the 1st guy I asked had a piece of wire a few feet long in his trunk.

Working under the hood, I then wired the 12V battery to bypass the ignition switch, and also jumpered the solenoid momentarily with a shorter segment of wire. In a few minutes, I was back on my way.

 

[Car-Guy]

^^^^^
Not sure about Mustangs but some older cars you can get access to the trunk by pulling out the back seat. (No tools required)

 

[NW-Bound]

^^^^^
Not sure about Mustangs but some older cars you can get access to the trunk by pulling out the back seat. (No tools required)

I don't remember that being an option in my 69 Mustang.

PS. The foldup rear seat is very common nowadays. I was surprised to see my son hauling a 52" TV in his Audi S4 sedan. It's not even a hatchback. He could do that with his rear seat folded forward.

 

[Palmtree]

You've gotten a lot of tangential advice here. It's your starter and or solenoid. I ruled out battery after the first jump attempt.

 

[CardsFan]

^^^^^
Not sure about Mustangs but some older cars you can get access to the trunk by pulling out the back seat. (No tools required)

OK. Totally off topic. About the same time (1976+/-) I was on Cape Cod with a bunch of buddies. The guy with the BEER locked his keys in the trunk. Now we had a serious problem. We removed the back seat to get get access. Tools WERE required.

Got it done in no time flat, of course, we had a motivation.

 

[travelover]

..........Working under the hood, I then wired the 12V battery to bypass the ignition switch, and also jumpered the solenoid momentarily with a shorter segment of wire. In a few minutes, I was back on my way.

Back in the day, we called that hot wiring a car. A useful skill. I was in the Pantanal in Brazil and the the tour guide lost the key to the jeep. Faced with walking miles, I hot wired the jeep. Others in the group thought it was odd that I knew how to do it.

 

[street]

Street?

Time to pay up.

Lol!
I felt pretty confident it wasn't the battery. I'm saying starter/solenoid because if alternator was bad if would start but wouldn't charge. If you could of got it started then you could of pulled of the hot cable from the battery. If the car stayed running the alternator would be good, if it died then there is a diode out in alternator or a problem with it.

 

[doneat54]

If your wrench slips, and contacts any grounded metal and the positive post at the same time, the results can be very, very serious. That amount of current can create a tremendous amount of heat in the battery, with very bad results.

-ERD50

That is why you attach and tighten the positive cable FIRST, then the ground.

 

[Montecfo]

Lol!
I felt pretty confident it wasn't the battery. I'm saying starter/solenoid because if alternator was bad if would start but wouldn't charge. If you could of got it started then you could of pulled of the hot cable from the battery. If the car stayed running the alternator would be good, if it died then there is a diode out in alternator or a problem with it.

We were thinking same as far as not being the battery.