Bradshaw and Montana are 4-0 in Super Bowls. Aikman is 3-0. Mahomes is 3-1.
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Bradshaw and Montana are 4-0 in Super Bowls. Aikman is 3-0. Mahomes is 3-1.
MuirWannabe
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Haha.
I understand your point. Perhaps you’re correct, although I don’t think so. But obviously it’s a team game too.
pb4uski
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I stand corrected and had bad information but it proves my point... nobody that I know of consider Bradshaw, Montana or Aikman to be the GOAT despite multiple Super Bowl wins and no Super Bowl losses. So F.I.R.E. User's definition is rubbish.
F.I.R.E User
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Not common for QB to get hit to that head anymore. If they do it’s a penalty.
John Madden said, "We say, 'He's the greatest quarterback I ever saw,' or 'He's the greatest quarterback this and that,' "I say with no disclaimers, 'This guy is the greatest quarterback who ever played.'
He was talking about Joe Montana.
He was talking about Joe Montana.
F.I.R.E User
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Montana was my favorite QB. That's really when I became more of a Chiefs fan (secondary to Bears) back in the day when he signed with them.
I watched the series of Joe Montana Cool Under Pressure a while back. Enjoyed it.
jollystomper
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You're missing the point. I'm not talking about "possibilities". I'm talking about facts and history with a deeper understanding of the game. The quarterback is just one player. He's not even on the field a lot of the time because he doesn't play defense.I gave examples and could give a lot more where medocre or poor quarterback performance didn't matter for winning teams.
You gave 2 examples and only one Super Bowl example out of, what, 568 Super Bowls? Not a good sample size. I think you are missing the point. You are bringing up exceptions and claiming they are the rule, but they are not. I would love to see your numbers that "prove" your exceptions are the rule
.It is like someone claiming "it does not matter if a team gets the #1 seed or the #6 seed in the playoffs, since #6 seeds have won the Super Bowl", ignoring the statistics that show the odds of a #1 seed winning the Super Bowl are much, much higher that an #6 seed.
I am not sure if you can claim a "deeper understanding of the game" by not realizing that the QB handles the ball on every offensive play (except for the occasional direct snap to another player) and thus can influence every offensive play
. Teams are much more likely to score on offense than defense.Montana has my GOAT vote. But Jordan is the all time absolute GOAT in my opinion. Multi sport pro athlete, US Gold Medal Olympian and 6 rings and all the MVPs of playoffs, divisions and championships. Plus.. highest net worth of any athlete as I understand.
His Nike deal alone is absolute GOAT as well. Just do it! I mean that defined the sport in the 80s.
Anywho, worth the .02 you paid.
Apparently Mike Zimmer and his robotic eye will be slamming offenses again as he picked up a defensive coordinator job somewhere.
His Nike deal alone is absolute GOAT as well. Just do it! I mean that defined the sport in the 80s.
Anywho, worth the .02 you paid.
Apparently Mike Zimmer and his robotic eye will be slamming offenses again as he picked up a defensive coordinator job somewhere.
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Lewis Clark
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I think Otto Graham deserves to be in the GOAT conversation. But he played a while ago (1946 - 1955) and seems to be mostly forgotten.
Played 10 years. Went to 10 championship games. Won seven championships.
jollystomper
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Other factors to consider for great quarterbacks being considered for GOAT status is who did they have to play around them.
- The talent around them during their dynasty runs. For example, Bradshaw, Montana, and Aikman's Super Bowl teams had multiple offensive Hall of Famers. Brady and Mahomes, not so much.
- True, there was less protection for QBs back in the day. But the size and speed of defensive lineman these days is much improved than when Montana and Bradshaw played. Today's top defensive lineman are bigger and faster than many receivers of that era. In fact, any of the rule changes have come about because of the increased size and speed of players. Here is an interesting article that goes over, by position, the size and skills evolution in the NFL: https://www.stadiumtalk.com/s/evolution-nfl-football-players-7aa420a72ca24a40
Again, I am not saying that the QBs mentioned were not great quarterbacks, just talking about the "next" level above great, which is GOAT.
Someone needs to run a Madden simulation of the best teams over history to see how they would fare against each other.
- The talent around them during their dynasty runs. For example, Bradshaw, Montana, and Aikman's Super Bowl teams had multiple offensive Hall of Famers. Brady and Mahomes, not so much.
- True, there was less protection for QBs back in the day. But the size and speed of defensive lineman these days is much improved than when Montana and Bradshaw played. Today's top defensive lineman are bigger and faster than many receivers of that era. In fact, any of the rule changes have come about because of the increased size and speed of players. Here is an interesting article that goes over, by position, the size and skills evolution in the NFL: https://www.stadiumtalk.com/s/evolution-nfl-football-players-7aa420a72ca24a40
Again, I am not saying that the QBs mentioned were not great quarterbacks, just talking about the "next" level above great, which is GOAT.
Someone needs to run a Madden simulation of the best teams over history to see how they would fare against each other.
Dash man
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It’s hard to compare “Hall of Famers” when Brady and especially Mahomes and the players around them aren’t eligible for the Hall of Fame yet.
I believe Montana is the GOAT, but time may prove me wrong.
jollystomper
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Mahomes has been in the league six years. In six years one can still get a sample of who has potential to be in the hall of fame, from who has played in the Super Bowl with him. From the offense, other than Kelce I do not think of any. Tyreek Hill is a possibility - but Mahomes has won his last 2 without him (and many though KC would not be as good once he was traded).
You can definitely tell with Brady - in 22 years one can easily evaluate the players around him for Hall of Fame potential. He had many who might be in the 'Hall of Good", but other than Gronkowsi there may not be other sho played with him a long time. Randy Moss did had 3 of his years in NE but only made the SB once, in their almost undefeated season (thank you, G-men!
). But I do think that was part of Belichick's strategy as coach and GM, to not hang onto players for too long, perhaps due to salary cap management (Brady renegotiated his contract more than a few times to open up cap space).But that does bring up another point, since modern free agency did not start until 1993. Team before that had more or less a stranglehold on players, so great players were more likely to play longer for a team, making team chemistry more consistent.
In my view the GOAT QB ranking now is Brady, Montana, Mahomes. But Mahomes, with a greater range of skills, has a great chance to pass Montana and approach Brady, only time will tell. I am just glad to have seen them in (so far) all the years of there careers, even if they did not play on the teams I root for
.I agree on Montana for NFL QB GOAT and Jordan for NBA GOAT, although not everyone agrees on that, either. Almost half of people will say Lebron is.
F.I.R.E User
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After game 4 performance by Curry. It’s Steph the GOAT.
Midpack
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IMO Montana was the GOAT until Brady finished his career. Brady’s longevity contributed to his record, and while Brady deserves credit for his fitness regimen and discipline, a QB couldn’t play that long at that level in previous generations due to rule changes in part. [I’m all for any rule changes that prevent injuries, especially CTE]
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easysurfer
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I think there's a tendency for people to thing their generation is the one witnessing GOATs in sports and entertainment.
Who is the GOAT is fun for conversation but different times, different era so really difficult to compare.
Football, for example was a different game years ago. QBs got knocked around more in the past. Today, you hardly touch a star QB and that's a penalty. So, stats are difficult to compare. Plus, the number of games played today. Different time, different era.
Car-Guy
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CardsFan
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Re: the NBA
Since I go back a few more years to the Celtic Dynasty, when you look at the players that made a big difference, and made the entire team better, you cannot leave out Larry Bird. Or, for that matter, his nemesis and friend, Magic Johnson.
Of course we also had, Bill Russell, Bob Cousy, John Havlicek and a host of other greats, and of course, the greatest basketball coach in history, Red Auerbach.
Sorry for the trip down memory lane. I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
Did you make it to the parade?
KCGeezer
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I did not brave the crowd. It was a gorgeous, fun filled day until it wasn’t. I won’t say much more in deference to Porky other than get out and vote.
Oh, and here’s a link to Children’s Mercy Hospital.
https://www.childrensmercy.org/ways-to-give/
Oh, and here’s a link to Children’s Mercy Hospital.
https://www.childrensmercy.org/ways-to-give/
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