Recommended rear tine tiller?

[Walt34]

Once again I come to the "well of knowledge" for enlightenment.

I'm considering buying a rear tine tiller, preferably used, since I won't be tilling a larger garden, but rather smaller plots of grass where right now the grass just isn't growing. I know why it isn't growing - rocks - but once those are removed I'll still need to till the soil. I want a rear tine tiller because I've used front tine tillers and I hate them. None of the fillings in my teeth are loose and I'd like to keep it that way. Those who have used front tine tillers know what I'm talking about. Especially when the "soil" here is more rock than dirt.

I know what to look for in general mechanical condition of the engine and such - not smoking too much, good compression, no oil leaks, not anything in imminent danger of falling off, loose or bent tines, and the like.

What I don't know are features of the ideal tiller - I have this dream (probably more of a fantasy) of just strolling along, gently guiding the tiller with one hand while the machine does all the grunt work of tilling the soil into a soft powder, this soil that hasn't been moved since the house was built, and it pulls out any rocks it finds and deposits them alongside the row. Or at least chucks them down into the woods and not through the windows or upside my head. Okay, I'll settle for it simply not jamming on rocks.

I have read that "dual rotating tines" is desirable - I gather this is tines that can be reversed, correct? And having a neutral gear in the transmission so it's easy to move around without starting the engine.

And anything else that experienced rear tine tiller users would look for.

Thank you all for any suggestions.

 

[Mark1]

I used front tillers as a kid and you are right they are tough on the body. A few years ago, I rented a rear tiller from the local Ace Hardware store and it was breeze to operate. If you can't find a used one locally, you might consider renting one from a hardware store.

 

[Winemaker]

I have had a good sized Troybilt for about 20 years, rear tined. Works great, self propelled, forward and backward. Engaged to propel, disengaged to freewheel and move. I used to rent then but it was such a pain to transport. Now to DW, it such a pain to store.

So I was storing it in the basement of one of the rentals; such a pain to transport. I'm now building a 8x12 greenhouse to store it, the snow blower, the chipper, the mower, the edger, the trimmer, the blower and some garden tools. If it's not one thing, it's another. But DW will be temporarily happy...

 

[Spock]

Rent until you find one you like and then buy that model.

 

[38Chevy454]

An old Troy-Bilt is fairly popular and are built well. Larger model (Horse) or smaller (Pony) are both good. There are lighter duty models built under the Murray corp manufacturing. You can tell the lighter duty with sheetmetal transmission case vs cast iron on the Troy-Bilt. Probably more a factor of what you can find used on CL or FB marketplace will determine what you buy.

I do agree that if you are looking at a one-time use, might be best to just rent one. I used to have an Troy-Bilt Horse model that I got free with a broken engine. Repowered with a Harbor Freight Chonda clone and it worked good. Had some gear oil leaks at the axle seals, and reverse didn't work well, but for the price and for rototilling fresh ground the heavy duty unit worked well. Even that Troy-Bilt required some manhandling on hard fresh ground. But storing it was the biggest hassle, it is not a small footprint space. Plus unless you have a big garden that you till each year, any rototiller is probably overkill for most homeowners since it is just occasional use equipment.

 

[RobbieB]

I have rented a rear tine tiller twice. Major heavy duty thing, about 8 HP I think and self propelled of course. It was delivered and picked up both times.

 

[Graybeard]

If you will use this just few times I would rent it.

Rear tine are superior to front.

I used a friend's "counter rotating" Sears tiller and bought a Troy Built forward rotating tine tiller. Counter rotating means the tines turn in reverse from the direction you are moving and it is a struggle to push the tiller as the tines want to move it backwards fighting the forward turning wheels!

Even with forward rotating tines, hitting a rock can cause the tiller to jump forwards like it was launched from a cannon. My garden was well tilled for many years but put a rock say 6" or so deep that's surrounded by compacted soil from walking on it and you better be sure to be holding on tight! In soil without rocks, that wouldn't be a problem but frost pushes them up so if you till to a 10" depth sooner or later a rock at 11" will appear.

 

[street]

I bought one a few years back and did a lot of research for one to fit my needs. I ended up buying an electric cord one. I started about this time of year looking and watching on prices. I finally got a great buy on one for around 79$ I believe.

For me it works great and since I only use it once or maybe two times a year it was worth the buy for me. Lot of power, 3 digging depths and no oil or maintenance to mess with, which gives me more time to play.

Good Luck.

 

[SnowballCamper]

I rented when I needed one a few years ago. I think my dad still has the old troy-built, and it was a workhorse, but a used old one probably cost what a new one does...

Then rental unit I got was all hydraulic...very nice to use since it was heavy enough to not have too much vibration.

 

[Jerry1]

There’s a lawn forum and I asked them about redoing my lawn. I wondered why no one recommended using a roto-tiller. They said that using a tiller will fluff up the ground and then it will settle unevenly. Better to kill the vegetation, cut it as short as possible, rake it clean and then top dress with good soil. Point being is that you might want to think about whether or not a tiller is really what you need. With no garden, you might not need a tiller.

This is the forum I was reading from:

https://www.thelawnforum.com/

We used to have a Troy Built Horse rear tine tiller. It was a horse. That thing did a lot of work for my father-in-law. It looked like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/384310867614

Still, if there’s a lot of rock in the soil, it’s going to run rough. Though I’ve never seen the one we had throw a rock. Mostly they just hit them and bounce.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

My favorite tiller is someone else's.

I hire a buddy to come til my big garden every year. He has a small tractor mounted tiller that does a much better job than I could ever do.

I typically like to be self sufficient, but I realize there are times I'm better off hiring someone who has the right equipment.

 

[CincyDave]

There’s a lawn forum and I asked them about redoing my lawn. I wondered why no one recommended using a roto-tiller. They said that using a tiller will fluff up the ground and then it will settle unevenly. Better to kill the vegetation, cut it as short as possible, rake it clean and then top dress with good soil. Point being is that you might want to think about whether or not a tiller is really what you need. With no garden, you might not need a tiller.

This is the forum I was reading from:

https://www.thelawnforum.com/

We used to have a Troy Built Horse rear tine tiller. It was a horse. That thing did a lot of work for my father-in-law. It looked like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/384310867614

Still, if there’s a lot of rock in the soil, it’s going to run rough. Though I’ve never seen the one we had throw a rock. Mostly they just hit them and bounce.

Or maybe rent a verticutter. I've never used one, and not sure if it would work for you. What size rocks are your talking about? Were you going to remove rocks by hand or use the tiller to try to do that? If by hand, and they are close to the surface, a spud bar would be good to have.

 

[Walt34]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and experiences with tillers. I have the small Honda front tine tiller, more commonly called a cultivator, and that thing bounces around a lot as one would expect. It is a tough little bugger though.

Oh, and I have the spud bar (AKA "digging stick") and quickly grew tired of that and bought an electric jackhammer for the rocks. That works great! (BTW, they also make one powered with a 2-stroke gas engine if you don't have electric power close enough.)

The two I'm looking at so far are the Troy-Built Mustang at Home Depot and Walmart, or the Toro Dual Direction rear-tine tiller at Tractor Supply. I'm leaning toward the Toro in spite of the higher price because generally Toro makes better quality stuff. And if I bought the Troy-Built one on a Home Depot credit card the "return window" expands from 30 days to a year. And sometimes they offer $100 off if you apply for the cc at the same time. For either it's worth getting the credit card. (Naturally it's paid off when the bill arrives.) And chances are excellent they'll go on sale the closer we get to spring.

I learned long ago that the lowest price is rarely the best value so I pretty much ignore those, especially for a one time purchase like this. For example, I know I'm going to run into a lot of rocks, and for that reversible tines are priceless; otherwise you spend a lot of time dealing with jammed rocks. Reversible tines don't come on the cheap tillers so I'll pay the higher price for that.

One of the unmentioned advantages of owning over renting one is intermittent availability, which is important to me, and I fully realize that there is a price attached to that. Which is fine, I'll pay it. That said, I quickly learned about saying "NO!" to people when I bought my first pickup truck. I'll help if I like you and have time, but it comes firmly attached to me.

There's still plenty of time to study this so I'll be over on the Lawn Care forum for a bit too. Thanks for that suggestion.

 

[Telly]

My thoughts...

I took a quick look at those links.
The Troy-Built weighs 269 lbs. and has a 208 cc engine.
Also has a sturdy-looking handle shaft, and tiller-type wheels and tires.
Individually bolted-on tines, like real tillers do.

The Toro is only 160 lbs. and has a 127 cc engine.
Has a wimpy-looking handle setup, and the wheels/"tires" look like lightweight crap.
The "tines" look like thin steel right out of a punch press, then painted gray. Don't look like they'd last very long, especially hitting rocks

Weight is a great advantage when tilling, as is power. The Troy-Built DOES have a weight hanging out front, don't know how heavy it is, but I expect it is included in the 269 lbs.

I have a early 1980s Troy Built original Pony, the larger one before they downsized the Pony a bit. It's a beast, cast-iron transmission, really heavy duty everywhere. Steel wheels and non-pneumatic tires. Has two small V-belts. The most important "tool" to have when operating it is an approx. 1" by 2" wood stick about 2' long, one end hatcheted to a point. To be used to poke dirt/roots/vines etc. from the drag point. The drag point is what holds the tiller from taking off and porpoising if the tines grab a hold of something. Trying to dig too deeply all at once in a pass can also cause it.
I realize many things are not built like they used to be. But looking at that Toro just does not inspire confidence in me at all.

I agree on the "availability" of owning one, rather than renting one. A real tiller is a gut-buster to try to get in and out of a pickup bed. At least it Should Be!

 

[sturbridge]

Tilling destroys the soil structure causing hard clumps over time which need to be broken up, needing more tilling. It destroys fungal colonies which feed plants, particularly perennial plants. Tilling destroys a lot of soil critters thst add fertility and allow oxygen through. I realize in some cultures tilling is seen as necessary every year but it isn't. I have better soil tilth after i got rid of my tiller. I pile mulch and manures on top and at most broadfork it in but i usually just let the worms do it.

 

[38Chevy454]

My thoughts...

I took a quick look at those links.
The Troy-Built weighs 269 lbs. and has a 208 cc engine.
Also has a sturdy-looking handle shaft, and tiller-type wheels and tires.
Individually bolted-on tines, like real tillers do.

The Toro is only 160 lbs. and has a 127 cc engine.
Has a wimpy-looking handle setup, and the wheels/"tires" look like lightweight crap.
The "tines" look like thin steel right out of a punch press, then painted gray. Don't look like they'd last very long, especially hitting rocks

Weight is a great advantage when tilling, as is power. The Troy-Built DOES have a weight hanging out front, don't know how heavy it is, but I expect it is included in the 269 lbs.

I have a early 1980s Troy Built original Pony, the larger one before they downsized the Pony a bit. It's a beast, cast-iron transmission, really heavy duty everywhere. Steel wheels and non-pneumatic tires. Has two small V-belts. The most important "tool" to have when operating it is an approx. 1" by 2" wood stick about 2' long, one end hatcheted to a point. To be used to poke dirt/roots/vines etc. from the drag point. The drag point is what holds the tiller from taking off and porpoising if the tines grab a hold of something. Trying to dig too deeply all at once in a pass can also cause it.
I realize many things are not built like they used to be. But looking at that Toro just does not inspire confidence in me at all.

I agree on the "availability" of owning one, rather than renting one. A real tiller is a gut-buster to try to get in and out of a pickup bed. At least it Should Be!

Agree with above and looked at the links as well, that Toro is a light weight machine that will not have the capability of the Troy-Bilt. Just the engine size (power) is enough to tell the difference. Plus those times on the Toro do not look like they would hold up over time. Just my opinion, but the Troy-Bilt is a better choice vs the Toro.

Here is my old Troy-Bilt Horse model that had the Harbor Freight re-engine. Sold it about 3 years ago since no longer used or needed it. You can see it is a heavy duty machine.

 

[CincyDave]

Tilling destroys the soil structure causing hard clumps over time which need to be broken up, needing more tilling. It destroys fungal colonies which feed plants, particularly perennial plants. Tilling destroys a lot of soil critters thst add fertility and allow oxygen through. I realize in some cultures tilling is seen as necessary every year but it isn't. I have better soil tilth after i got rid of my tiller. I pile mulch and manures on top and at most broadfork it in but i usually just let the worms do it.

Very true. Green manure works well too. I think OP was talking more about getting ground broken up and rocks removed for planting grass seed.

 

[Walt34]

Very true. Green manure works well too. I think OP was talking more about getting ground broken up and rocks removed for planting grass seed.

Exactly. The reason the grass isn't growing in spots is the rocks immediately beneath them. I learned this a few years ago when I dug up a largish area where it wouldn't grow there either. Luckily we live next to a wooded area where I can dump all the rocks, there were plenty of them. Frankly I'm a bit surprised anything grows here with all the shale. Y'know all those "farmer scenes" where the farmer picks up a handful of black dirt? I've only seen that in pictures. Around here it's clay and shale. When we moved in I did a soil test; everything came up zero. I'd never seen that before either!

I've pretty much narrowed it down to the Troy-built, even though according to many it's made by MTD and not Troy-built anymore - they contracted out their lower-end units I guess. Looking at the higher-end units on their web site the differences in construction are readily apparent. But I'm 72 now and I really don't think I'll be needing it for more than a few years. Hopefully it and I will be going strong when I'm 92 but the statistics argue otherwise.

 

[Jerry1]

. . . The reason the grass isn't growing in spots is the rocks immediately beneath them.

The problem with digging up rocks is that there is always another rock just below that one you just dug up. Worse, rocks seem to move to the surface so they're always a problem. I would look into laying down a few inches of top soil and replanting in that versus busting up the ground with a tiller.

 

[Walt34]

That's a thought but then there's the issue of leveling. No way could I do that where I dug up before (I did think of it) but it's right next to the house and doing so would have almost certainly created a water drainage problem that I don't have. Farther away from the house there are some areas where I guess I could get away with it.

 

[old medic]

The problem with digging up rocks is that there is always another rock just below that one you just dug up. Worse, rocks seem to move to the surface so they're always a problem.

Some of the 1st money I made was due to this... Our Great-grandfather would pay us $5 a trailer load picked out of the garden, and placed in the creek to build a dam. My brother and I could get about a load a day...

 

[Walt34]

So I made the decision yesterday and ordered the Troy-Built Mustang rear tine tiller, it is to be delivered next Friday. I'm looking forward to working with this new engine-driven [-]toy[/-] tool although I'm well aware that it's more than a bit early in the season.

I really like that the tines are reversible independent of the wheel rotation, and that the wheels can be engine-driven forward and reverse without running the tines. Just the thought of reverse gear with tines turning is a bit scary (conjure horror movie scene) but it does have a "deadman switch" that stops everything if you let go of the handle. There's also a neutral gear so it can be easily rolled without the engine running.

I'm really looking forward to being able to till the ground without shaking my teeth loose and dislocating my shoulders.