Sad Day for Boy Scouts.

[Franklin]

Any Scouts out there? I am an Eagle Scout and still very proud of that accomplishment. However, it does seem that years of "dodging the issue" finally caught up to the National Chapter. Sadly today I read that The Boy Scouts of America filed for Chapter 11. Even as a kid (many years ago) we heard rumors and jokes about inappropriate behavior from the Troop Leaders. Even then we just laughed it off as rumor (no one then wanted to face the issue). From a personal perspective we stand with the victims of abuse but hated that it was so prevalent in an organization that stood for the opposite. Today my same childhood troop (and its church sponsor) has several lawsuits pending against BSA. How could this have continued for decades and how could it be so spread out nationally? From all I read these are real and credible crimes that will unfortunately take down the many years of great things that scouting meant to so many young men and families. I've spoken to many of my scouting friends and we are all proud of what scouting meant to our lives but are incredibly sad to see what has transpired. Any folk out there effected by Scouting and how does today's news touch you?

 

[Another Reader]

I know a mother of an eagle scout. She was very active in scouting when her son was growing up and still is to a lesser extent. She said the bankruptcy was primarily because the Mormon Church pulled its' financial support of BSA after they started admitting girls. Their money was a substantial amount of BSA's funding according to her.

 

[braumeister]

Scouting was a major part of my life growing up. Joined at age 11, then Explorers, then served as an advisor to the Explorer post until I graduated college. I learned so much that remains useful to this day. Also made many friends, some of whom I'm still in touch with.

Back then, there were no ugly rumors of anything, although it's possible we just had a great group of adult leaders. I think that's the case, so it was very sad when I first started hearing about this many years later.

But Scouting has changed over time, just as everything does. Today's bankruptcy announcement has been expected.

 

[CaliKid]

The whole situation is sad on many fronts. My son didn't love Scouts but he did it for a few years and he got a ton out of it. We certainly saw no clues of any problems but there are crazy people everywhere. I suspect they'll pull themselves out of BK and survive longer but will continue to evolve and change.

 

[W2R]

Franklin, congratulations on achieving Eagle Scout designation. Those of us who remember the Boy Scouts of days gone by, still admire that accomplishment tremendously and value what the Boy Scouts did for so many boys (years ago).

Unfortunately, it sounds like boys will no longer be able to strive to become an Eagle Scout. Such a sad end to the Boy Scouts, and one I would never have predicted in a million years.

 

[skipro33]

I have great memories of being a scout when growing up in Missouri. I remember a kit to make my own moccasins, after which, we played a variation of Red Light, Green Light where we would creep up on someone blind folded. If he heard you and pointed at you, you were out. I remember Capture The Flag. One campout where we camped in the snow. This was a huge event with hundreds of scouts. We would take river rocks from the fire and put them in our sleeping bag to keep warm. The fire buckets in front of each tent froze solid by morning, so we converted to sand buckets. All weekend we went from station to station to do those tasks needed to earn merit badges. At night we had a huge bonfire, everyone standing around facing it in a circle. An Indian ran round in front of the guys and would stop and hit them on the shoulders. Behind him were two others who hoodwinked him and hauled him off. I think it was called 'Order Of The Arrow', but not sure about that.

I'll always have only great memories of the scouts.

Oh, an my first girl friend was a Brownie. Ha! I stole her beanie and that was all she wrote.

 

[Keim]

Franklin, congratulations on achieving Eagle Scout designation. Those of us who remember the Boy Scouts of days gone by, still admire that accomplishment tremendously and value what the Boy Scouts did for so many boys (years ago).

Unfortunately, it sounds like boys will no longer be able to strive to become an Eagle Scout. Such a sad end to the Boy Scouts, and one I would never have predicted in a million years.

Yes, they will. This bankruptcy does not mean the organization is going out of business. It's not a period at the end of their sentence; it's a semicolon.

 

[Nemo2]

Apropos to nothing: I was never a Scout...but, (although I can't remember what it was about), I recall, when I was a kid, my maternal grandmother showing me a letter they had from Baden-Powell's wife

It was apparently quite a souvenir.

 

[Franklin]

I have great memories of being a scout when growing up in Missouri. I remember a kit to make my own moccasins, after which, we played a variation of Red Light, Green Light where we would creep up on someone blind folded. If he heard you and pointed at you, you were out. I remember Capture The Flag. One campout where we camped in the snow. This was a huge event with hundreds of scouts. We would take river rocks from the fire and put them in our sleeping bag to keep warm. The fire buckets in front of each tent froze solid by morning, so we converted to sand buckets. All weekend we went from station to station to do those tasks needed to earn merit badges. At night we had a huge bonfire, everyone standing around facing it in a circle. An Indian ran round in front of the guys and would stop and hit them on the shoulders. Behind him were two others who hoodwinked him and hauled him off. I think it was called 'Order Of The Arrow', but not sure about that.

I'll always have only great memories of the scouts.

Oh, an my first girl friend was a Brownie. Ha! I stole her beanie and that was all she wrote.

Great stories and memories. Made me smile because i did some of those same things. And I was in the Order of the Arrow as well (sorta weird when you look back at it). Let's hope this is not the beginning of the end for BSA but it will be much harder to raise monies for future growth of programs. Most companies will pull support which will cut back on scouting programs for inner cities and areas that need $ the most.

 

[timbervest]

My father and my son are both Eagle Scouts (somehow it skipped me) but I was a Scoutmaster and Leader in both Cubs and Boy Scouts for 15 years and we had an outstanding group of leaders and adult volunteers as well as boys that grew into fine young men. All of them got something out of the program (some more than others) and it was fun. There was never any instance of inappropriate behavior but I know that happened elsewhere.

As for the LDS, the only thing I can say is that all organizations evolve and I see the desire for girls to be able to challenge themselves and achieve the same things that the boys have an opportunity to do (most girls could easily do all of the requirements throughout the Scouting program on the path to Eagle). Note that everything changes and there used to be a time when certain boys (non-white, non-Christian, gay, etc) were excluded from participating so opening opportunities for girls makes sense and is a natural part of a growing inclusive organization.

I will say that one of the things my son and I found beneficial from the all boy experience was an opportunity for boys at that impressionable age to see good male role models and also to learn teamwork and bonding with other boys in a world that is increasingly focused on self achievement at the expense of others and that looks suspiciously at male friendships. But having co-ed troops might benefit both sexes (although teenage boys do tend to get stupid around girls at that age).

The only downside I see is basically the Girl Scouts of America gets thrown under the bus as "second class scouting" -- it's a great program and also helps build "sisterhood" strength. But I am sure it will all work out.

 

[Gumby]

Keep in mind that Chapter 11 bankruptcy does not necessarily mean the liquidation and dissolution of the Boy Scouts. In fact, most Chapter 11 cases simply reorganize the financial affairs of the debtor. Shareholders (not that there are any here) get wiped out and the new equity goes to the creditors, unsecured creditors (which would include most plaintiffs in the various lawsuits) take a big financial hit, secured creditors take a lesser hit, and the organization continues in existence. It still could come to liquidation if they can 't work out a reorganization plan, but that is not inevitable.

On a personal note - it was extremely helpful to me as a boy to have someone guide me along the way to becoming trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.

 

[brewer12345]

I have many fond memories of Boy Scouts and the Order of the Arrow.

As membership slowly dwindled over the years, it seems that they did not adapt enough to stay relevant. The chicanery of the last few years pretty much ensured they were going down the tubes. Sad to see the national chapter sign its own death warrant with some of the choices they made recently. I imagine that a lot of camps and stuff will be sold off and what comes out the other side of bankruptcy will be a pale shadow of what BSA has morphed into in the last few years.

 

[Brat]

My husband and our son are both Eagle Scouts & members of the Order of the Arrow, husband was a Troop Leader and worked with our local counsel for years, he received the Silver Beaver award last year.

Husband has been very critical of the LDS Troops for many years. He felt that because those troops were insular the boys were very vulnerable. Girls have always participated in Explorer programs. Only this year were girls participating in Cub and Scout troops and those troops are single-sex. He believes that the requirements established to protect boys (no one-on-one meetings) grated against the LDS practice of having their Bishops meet privately with children during early adolescence. He also claimed that those Troops were Eagle 'factories' where the advancement of their members was not by the boy's initiative.

Yes, the money received by BSA from LDS participation was a huge loss.

The camps are usually owned by the local counsels and many were donated by members. There may be conditions on those properties that prohibit their use for other purposes.

 

[Keim]

I have many fond memories of Boy Scouts and the Order of the Arrow.

As membership slowly dwindled over the years, it seems that they did not adapt enough to stay relevant. The chicanery of the last few years pretty much ensured they were going down the tubes. Sad to see the national chapter sign its own death warrant with some of the choices they made recently. I imagine that a lot of camps and stuff will be sold off and what comes out the other side of bankruptcy will be a pale shadow of what BSA has morphed into in the last few years.

I worked for the organization for 10 years (until 2009ish). I can assure you, the lawsuits they are protecting themselves from aren't from recent chicanery. Modern BSA youth protection policies are excellent. The lawsuits are about things that happened 30+ years ago.

If you want to claim accepting homosexuals and girls is chicanery-that's a different discussion.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Sounds like a strategic move against the civil lawsuits?

DH was DS’s Webelos leader, along with two other fathers—no non-parental adult participants, which might have helped keep abuse in check. DS stopped at that point--there are so many organized groups and activities available to kids these days that perhaps BSA should reorganize as a smaller but more focused group in communities with kids that don’t have a lot of options.

A Scout in my town made Eagle scout by going to a single city meeting and asking for a stop sign at a particular corner (denied—but the trustees did discuss a yield sign ) ). Maybe the BSA needs to make that status a little harder to attain these days....

We do have a little boy scout who knocked on our door (his dad was waiting on the sidewalk) selling Christmas wreaths ten years ago. We told him we would buy anything his troop was selling, and he came back year after year, sometimes on his bike. I sure hope he is an Eagle Scout.

 

[Lawrencewendall]

Not to fear. It's just a financial re-structuring to set up a trust to pay off OLD claims. Been involved in Scouting for 30 years, this year. Leader every year while my DSs were in Cubscouts. Was the Cubmaster for a time. Transitioned to Boy Scouts. Was an Assistant Scoutmaster for a time, Scoutmaster for 8 years and have been Committee Chair for the last 8 years. My DSs both got their Eagle and have long left the program but I stick with it because I know the impact it had on their lives. Here's the letter from National:

Dear Scouting Family,

Today, the national organization of the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy to achieve two key objectives: equitably compensate victims who were harmed during their time in Scouting and continue to carry out Scouting’s mission for years to come.

While the word “bankruptcy” can be intimidating, it is important to know that Scouting programs will continue. Your regular unit meetings and activities, district and council events, other Scouting adventures and countless service projects will take place as usual.

We took this action today amid increasing financial pressure on the BSA from litigation involving past abuse in Scouting. We are outraged that there have been times when individuals took advantage of our programs to abuse innocent children and sincerely apologize to anyone who was harmed during their time in Scouting. We believe victims, we support them, we provide counseling by a provider of their choice, and we encourage them to come forward. Our plan is to use this Chapter 11 process to create a Trust that would provide equitable compensation to these individuals.

As we go through this process, we want to make certain that all Scouting parents and volunteers know the following:
Scouting is safer now than ever before. Approximately 90% of the pending and asserted claims against the BSA relate to abuse that occurred more than 30 years ago. As someone close to Scouting, you know the safety of children in our programs is the BSA’s absolute top priority and that one instance of abuse is one too many. That’s precisely why over many years we’ve developed some of the strongest expert-informed youth protection policies found in any youth-serving organization.

From mandatory youth protection training and background checks for all volunteers and staff, to policies that prohibit one-on-one interaction between youth and adults and require that any suspected abuse is reported to law enforcement, our volunteers and employees take youth protection extremely seriously and do their part to help keep kids safe. You can read more about the BSA’s multi-layered safeguards and our efforts to be part of the broader solution to child abuse at www.scouting.org/youth-safety. In fact, this is a resource that you can share with friends and family who are interested in understanding what the BSA is doing to keep kids safe.
Scouting continues. Scouting programs will continue to serve youth, families and local communities throughout this process and for many years to come. Just last year, communities across the country benefited from more than 13 million Scouting service hours, and young men and women earned more than 1.7 million merit badges that represent skills that will help them succeed throughout their lives. Studies prove and parents agree that Scouting helps young people become more kind, helpful and prepared for life, and as long as those values remain important to our society, Scouting will continue to be invaluable to our nation’s youth.
Local councils have not filed for bankruptcy. Local councils – which provide programming, financial, facility and administrative support to Scouting units in their communities – are legally separate, distinct and financially independent from the national organization.
We know you will likely have questions about these issues and things you will see in the news. We have posted information about our restructuring on a dedicated website, www.BSArestructuring.org.

This site includes a helpful Resources page, where you will find a short video explaining what Chapter 11 means for Scouting, as well as a FAQ and a reference document that will help you discuss this announcement with youth in our programs. The site also includes a Milestones page, which will be your best source for the latest updates throughout this process.

If these resources don’t answer your questions, please feel free to reach out to us through Member Care at 972-580-2489 or MyScouting@Scouting.org. We will do everything we can to provide helpful, transparent responses and ensure your Scouting experience continues to be a great one.

Yours in Scouting,

Jim Turley
National Chair

Ellie Morrison
National Commissioner

Roger Mosby
President & CEO

 

[brewer12345]

If you want to claim accepting homosexuals and girls is chicanery-that's a different discussion.

Bingo. At this point, the lawsuits may just put the organization out of its misery.

 

[JustCurious]

Note that everything changes and there used to be a time when certain boys (non-white, non-Christian, gay, etc) were excluded from participating so opening opportunities for girls makes sense and is a natural part of a growing inclusive organization.

So should boys be allowed to joing the girl scouts?

I think it's unfair to lump together the exclusion of non-white boys from the boy scouts with the exclusion of girls from the boy scouts. The former is not justified while the latter is.

 

[stepford]

I can't be the only one with unpleasant memories of Boy Scouts. I had a great time in Cub Scouts and Webelos, but after that Boy Scouts was a harsh surprise. Legitimized bullying: First Class crapping on Second Class crapping on Tenderfoot. It's where I learned the phrases "Rank has it Privileges" and "Toughen up or get out". I made First Class then got out.

 

[TheRunningMan]

It has been sad for quite a while. When they began admitting girls into the Boy Scouts it was the beginning of the end. The revelations of abuse and assault sealed the deal.

I loved scouting when I was a kid living in California and Washington. I was fortunate that my experiences and memories were/are all first rate. The fathers who donated their time exceptional men.

 

[JoeWras]

I can't be the only one with unpleasant memories of Boy Scouts. I had a great time in Cub Scouts and Webelos, but after that Boy Scouts was a harsh surprise. Legitimized bullying: First Class crapping on Second Class crapping on Tenderfoot. It's where I learned the phrases "Rank has it Privileges" and "Toughen up or get out". I made First Class then got out.

I have fond memories of Cub Scouts through Webelos. As we were preparing to enter the Boy Scouts, the scoutmaster gave us a talk that was a bunch of wind and threats. Still remember he looked like, and barked like the R. Lee Ermy character in Full Metal Jacket. "We WILL be camping to 20 below. You will join us." Blah, blah.

Well, I was still going to join, but that year there was a vacuum in leadership. Perhaps the other adults didn't want to serve with this blowhard. So it fell through the cracks and I never went back.

Still think scouting has a lot going for it. Too bad they had their heads in the sand for so long.

 

[Chuckanut]

As for the LDS, the only thing I can say is that all organizations evolve and I see the desire for girls to be able to challenge themselves and achieve the same things that the boys have an opportunity to do (most girls could easily do all of the requirements throughout the Scouting program on the path to Eagle). Note that everything changes and there used to be a time when certain boys (non-white, non-Christian, gay, etc) were excluded from participating so opening opportunities for girls makes sense and is a natural part of a growing inclusive organization.

As far as girls are concerned, the current school system is already highly tilted towards the girls - they get better grades, they make up more the student leadership, they get discipline less often. At the college level, females now get about 60% of the degrees. Women now start just over 50% of the new businesses. Just how much more of an advantage do girls need?

When I was teaching, I noticed that if the boys did as well as the girls on the required state skills tests, many schools would meet the requirement for the minimum percent of students who passed the tests. The best way to get the school totals to improve was to get the boys to do as well as the girls. Alas, that went right over the head of the various teachers, counselors and administrators.

And don't get me started on the double standard when it comes to gender based misbehavior.

Our boys are forgotten and being left behind. Where's the outrage?

OK, I'll stop the rant and just observe for now.

 

[Gumby]

Dear Scouting Family,

...
We took this action today amid increasing financial pressure on the BSA from litigation involving past abuse in Scouting. We are outraged that there have been times when individuals took advantage of our programs to abuse innocent children and sincerely apologize to anyone who was harmed during their time in Scouting. We believe victims, we support them, we provide counseling by a provider of their choice, and we encourage them to come forward. Our plan is to use this Chapter 11 process to create a Trust that would provide equitable compensation to these individuals....

This will likely be similar to the process that was used for the asbestos bankruptcies (Owens Corning, W.R. Grace, etc) and for Piper Aircraft, which all set up trusts for present and unknown future tort claimants against the debtor.

 

[JoeWras]

Our boys are forgotten and being left behind.

Here, here! We're dismantling every role model they have. We're taking away their chances to "just be boys." Oh yes, they need that time.

 

[LRDave]

I can't be the only one with unpleasant memories of Boy Scouts. I had a great time in Cub Scouts and Webelos, but after that Boy Scouts was a harsh surprise. Legitimized bullying: First Class crapping on Second Class crapping on Tenderfoot. It's where I learned the phrases "Rank has it Privileges" and "Toughen up or get out". I made First Class then got out.

I was a scout and lost interest at Webelos. Also the pack I was in fell apart. I became a scout leader for a few years as my two sons cycled through scouts. They really wanted to do it until they really didn't want to do it. I was happy to get out. I particularly hated the pinewood derby, which (at least for our district) was an open competition for father-built cars and any poor kid who tried to build his own was out in the early rounds and always felt bad.