Sad Day for Boy Scouts.

[MichaelB]

This will likely be similar to the process that was used for the asbestos bankruptcies (Owens Corning, W.R. Grace, etc) and for Piper Aircraft, which all set up trusts for present and unknown future tort claimants against the debtor.

Exactly. Something similar is expected with PG&E and the opioid manufacturers / distributors.

 

[Gumby]

And now for my Moderator duties - as far as I can tell, this bankruptcy is in reaction to substantial legal claims and intended to deal with them. It has nothing to do with girls or gays in the Boy Scouts and this is neither the thread nor the forum to air out our grievances on those topics. If it continues, my fellow moderators may decide to close the thread.

 

[JoeWras]

I particularly hated the pinewood derby, which (at least for our district) was an open competition for father-built cars and any poor kid who tried to build his own was out in the early rounds and always felt bad.

The pinewood derby actually taught me some HUGE life lessons. So I hope they don't stop it as part of the bankruptcy.

1) I learned I like to work with my hands. Something I mostly put on hold during my career (except hobbies), and something I am doing every day now in retirement.

2) Dad and I shared a lot of good time. He made me do a lot of the work. But he had some extra skills we could use (molten lead!).

3) My car was so fast, it blew off the end of a brand new track, and fell on the floor. I'm not joking here! I demanded compensation! Surely I was going to win it all. Right after my car blew off the end, they posted "catchers" and only one other car needed it. (Next year he fixed the track to slow the cars and properly stop them.)

Anyway, my DEMANDS and TEARS for compensation went unmet. My axles were broken, and my car didn't go 2 feet next heat. "Tough luck, Joe. Sorry about that!"

And that was it. I was pissed, pissed, pissed. (I still am!) But that tough luck lesson and ultimate brush off helped me learn that life is unfair sometimes. You may be the best, but that doesn't mean you'll get to be VP or President. Suck it up and move on.

 

[kgtest]

I can't be the only one with unpleasant memories of Boy Scouts. I had a great time in Cub Scouts and Webelos, but after that Boy Scouts was a harsh surprise. Legitimized bullying: First Class crapping on Second Class crapping on Tenderfoot. It's where I learned the phrases "Rank has it Privileges" and "Toughen up or get out". I made First Class then got out.

Yes, I heard this rhetoric and had exactly the same experience. I had a great time actually learning scouting related knowledge like survival skills, construction, archery...

But the rank and file of a "Boy scout" pushed me out quickly. Went from fun, to not fun. I realize this happens in the business world as well, but I am much wiser now so I can avoid a bunch of BS.

 

[Montecfo]

BSA has lost its way

Surrendered to the culture wars, splintering the organization.

It will never be the same, that's for sure, and it is a shame.

 

[braumeister]

Boy Scouts was a harsh surprise. Legitimized bullying: First Class crapping on Second Class crapping on Tenderfoot. It's where I learned the phrases "Rank has it Privileges" and "Toughen up or get out". I made First Class then got out.

Yes, I heard this rhetoric and had exactly the same experience.

Perhaps I was just naive, but I'm honestly surprised when I hear stories like these. My troop was like one big happy family. No bullying, and everyone was friends with each other, from the most senior scouts to the newest tenderfeet.

Or maybe I was just exceptionally lucky. But I can tell you that for a kid growing up in Brooklyn, the chance to get out into the woods for a weekend was magical.

 

[tfudtuckerpucker]

Eagle and adult volunteer here. My understanding is the bankruptcy is to allow restructuring of their significant assets (including real estate), to protect from seemingly limitless awards for thousands of victims (example- a recent award of $19.9M for one victim). The idea is to limit the total payout for all victims to a manageable pool, and thus allow BSA to continue operations. The bankruptcy case will halt active lawsuits and, according to lawyers familiar with bankruptcy proceedings, will likely prevent future litigation tied to past abuse.

 

[JoeWras]

But I can tell you that for a kid growing up in Brooklyn, the chance to get out into the woods for a weekend was magical.

Same in Chicago. I have life long memories from just two camping trips. So much fun, so much new to see in the woods. We need to give kids a chance to get out of the concrete jungle.

 

[Keim]

Perhaps I was just naive, but I'm honestly surprised when I hear stories like these. My troop was like one big happy family. No bullying, and everyone was friends with each other, from the most senior scouts to the newest tenderfeet.

Or maybe I was just exceptionally lucky. But I can tell you that for a kid growing up in Brooklyn, the chance to get out into the woods for a weekend was magical.

National and local Council would like every troop to be perfect, well trained, and safe. The vast majority are. But... troops are variable dependent on the local volunteers.

 

[jimbee]

I was in Cub Scouts through Webelos. Boy Scouts was too much crap. Too bad the organization was mismanaged.

 

[travelover]

Good riddance. I'm so sick and tired of organizations that enable and protect pedophiles and other sexual predators who claim they are "protecting the organization". What I'd like to see more of is prosecution of individuals that are responsible and less payments by the organization to "make it go away".

 

[Keim]

Good riddance. I'm so sick and tired of organizations that enable and protect pedophiles and other sexual predators who claim they are "protecting the organization". What I'd like to see more of is prosecution of individuals that are responsible and less payments by the organization to "make it go away".

Your ire is somewhat misplaced. The modern BSA youth protection policies are considered a role model for other organizations. The lawsuits they are dealing with are from transgressions 30+years ago.

 

[tfudtuckerpucker]

Your ire is somewhat misplaced. The modern BSA youth protection policies are considered a role model for other organizations. The lawsuits they are dealing with are from transgressions 30+years ago.

This is true. BSA has made significant strides in the past few decades- 2 deep leadership, buddy system, criminal background checks, clear rules on sleeping arrangements, youth protection training, etc. I know- I spent a week at a scout camp with my grandson last summer and I saw changes from when I was a scout.

I think every religious group is going through the similar issues, and BSA is now ahead of many of them in trying to control it. Yes, they have been guilty of shielding pervs in BSA (as happens in other religious orgs), and it's bad that lawsuits are needed to stop it. I would also be in favor of prosecution for cover-up or failure to report, as "accessory to the crime" in any organization (religions included).

 

[Ronnieboy]

I know a mother of an eagle scout. She was very active in scouting when her son was growing up and still is to a lesser extent. She said the bankruptcy was primarily because the Mormon Church pulled its' financial support of BSA after they started admitting girls. Their money was a substantial amount of BSA's funding according to her.

As for the LDS, the only thing I can say is that all organizations evolve and I see the desire for girls to be able to challenge themselves and achieve the same things that the boys have an opportunity to do (most girls could easily do all of the requirements throughout the Scouting program on the path to Eagle). Note that everything changes and there used to be a time when certain boys (non-white, non-Christian, gay, etc) were excluded from participating so opening opportunities for girls makes sense and is a natural part of a growing inclusive organization.

.

Husband has been very critical of the LDS Troops for many years. He felt that because those troops were insular the boys were very vulnerable. Girls have always participated in Explorer programs. Only this year were girls participating in Cub and Scout troops and those troops are single-sex. He believes that the requirements established to protect boys (no one-on-one meetings) grated against the LDS practice of having their Bishops meet privately with children during early adolescence. He also claimed that those Troops were Eagle 'factories' where the advancement of their members was not by the boy's initiative.

Yes, the money received by BSA from LDS participation was a huge loss.

The camps are usually owned by the local counsels and many were donated by members. There may be conditions on those properties that prohibit their use for other purposes.

The LDS church may not have liked girls being involved in the BOY Scouts of America but the real issue with them pulling their support (money) was allowing openly gay scouts to join and allowing openly gay adult leaders.
Washington Post Article

"Not that there's anything wrong with that." Jerry Seinfeld

 

[Brat]

Bottom line is that all must respect the personal space of others.

The LDS has had policies that impact the children of gays, precluding them to be baptized until recently. Children were punished for their parent's orientation.

Going back to Boy Scouting, each person needs to be respected.

 

[travelover]

Your ire is somewhat misplaced. The modern BSA youth protection policies are considered a role model for other organizations. The lawsuits they are dealing with are from transgressions 30+years ago.

The Boy Scouts hid their "perversion" files until 2012 when an Oregon court forced disclosure. That was not 30+ years ago that they were still stonewalling.


https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2012/06/oregon_supreme_court_orders_re.html

 

[Keim]

The Boy Scouts hid their "perversion" files until 2012 when an Oregon court forced disclosure. That was not 30+ years ago that they were still stonewalling.


https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2012/06/oregon_supreme_court_orders_re.html

Yes, they did hide their problem volunteer files until more recently. And I'm not suggesting they didn't stonewall. But the bad molestation issues are from the era I indicated. Modern youth protection policy, when followed, all but negates the possibility of molestation.

Volunteers got blacklisted for more than molestation.

 

[natetheb]

I am an Eagle Scout. "Boy Scouts" is now dead to me. My boy will not be participating in "Scouts USA".

 

[travelover]

Yes, they did hide their problem volunteer files until more recently. And I'm not suggesting they didn't stonewall. But the bad molestation issues are from the era I indicated. Modern youth protection policy, when followed, all but negates the possibility of molestation.

Volunteers got blacklisted for more than molestation.

In 2012, the court forced the release of their internal files, it was never done voluntarily. They may still have been stonewalling today if they had not been forced to come clean. So, my point is that the organization is systemically rotten, it was never just a few bad apples.

 

[NotYourAverageJones]

I didn't participate in the scouts when I was younger because my sister and I were involved in Awanas at our small town church. Perverts and bad seeds plant themselves in all type of organization and no one is immune from this behavior. Look at what the Catholic church has been dealing with! It's disgusting! I believe there is a special place in hell for all of these predatory maggots.

 

[Dtail]

Didn't let my boys join the scouts. Was always concerned about the predatory stuff.

 

[Maenad]

DH was a scout and loved it, until a bunch of the other parents raised a stink about FIL leading so many activities, since he was an atheist.

I was friends with a guy in high school who was an Eagle Scout, until I found out that he'd raped a friend of mine. So I'm not convinced that being an Eagle Scout means anything about a reliable judge of character.

Then there was the whole "we don't want the gays" thing.

And any organization that aids and abets child abusers deserves to go down (I'm looking at you, Catholic church).

I'm not really crying. I don't see the Boy Scouts as being all that beneficial, actually.

 

[Winemaker]

I was involved in Scouting from age 8 to 18; my Eagle Scout certificate downstairs was signed by Nixon. When my son was briefly involved, I spent 4 years as a Leader. I never saw, heard any misbehavior by any adults at anytime. It is a shame that this has happened but there is evil lurking everywhere, one must be prepared, as the motto says.

 

[Nemo2]

It is a shame that this has happened but there is evil lurking everywhere, one must be prepared, as the motto says.

About twenty years ago a columnist in a Toronto newspaper wrote an article about abuse in the Catholic church*, (I'm an unaffiliated agnostic); I wrote to him and suggested that predators flock to organizations where they can find prey.......said "You don't hunt for rabbits in the middle of a lake, you go where the rabbits are".

And, of course, the predators protect each other, reflecting Franklin's observation of "Hanging together or hanging separately".

(*There have been numerous claims of hockey coach abusers here also.)

 

[MichaelB]

And now for my Moderator duties - as far as I can tell, this bankruptcy is in reaction to substantial legal claims and intended to deal with them. It has nothing to do with girls or gays in the Boy Scouts and this is neither the thread nor the forum to air out our grievances on those topics. If it continues, my fellow moderators may decide to close the thread.

Reminding everyone ...