Should I Stop A Pro Electrician From Working On My Panel HOT?

[braumeister]

When my electrician replaced my panel, he pulled the meter. To pull the meter, he wore long gloves, a face shield, and was standing on a 6" piece of plastic. Great safety precautions, but not needed, and there was no arc flash. But he was ready.

That's amusing. Our electric meter was replaced a few years ago, giving us new smart meters. The contractor was about 20 years old, and he walked up the block pulling a wagon full of meters. He asked me to stay ten feet away, but he had no protective equipment at all. Pulled the old one and installed the new one in about two minutes total, then went on to the next house.

 

[Markola]

They don’t call them the Darwin Awards for nuthin’.

 

[Ronstar]

That's amusing. Our electric meter was replaced a few years ago, giving us new smart meters. The contractor was about 20 years old, and he walked up the block pulling a wagon full of meters. He asked me to stay ten feet away, but he had no protective equipment at all. Pulled the old one and installed the new one in about two minutes total, then went on to the next house.

That’s the way I remember it when we got our smart meter. It was impressive.

 

[Jimonlimon]

It was a dark and stormy night... I'm not an electrician but wired our entire house.

Summary of story: I replaced a 100 amp main breaker hot and didn't die.

Well dark Friday night anyhow. Neighbor tried to run a microwave and electric kettle off the same 15 amp circuit and tripped a breaker. She wasn't sure which breaker to flip so flipped the main then called me. I found the tripped breaker and reset it- but the main wouldn't latch as it was probably 25 years old and had never been cycled. Luckily the home center was still open and had a replacement.

I considered long and hard whether to pull the meter before replacing the main breaker. Our neighborhood didn't have smart meters yet. I asked to see her last electric bill and it was more than 3 weeks since the last meter read. I was concerned that the utility would have a fit and bill her a bunch if the meter seal was broken. (now with smart meters they would be able to tell exactly how long the meter was disconnected). The utility will happily come out and disconnect at the power pole or pull the meter while you replace a panel or breaker, but I didn't think they would do so at 9:30 on a Friday night.

So I decided to replace the main breaker hot. It was a bit scary but went fine. I put shoes on before starting and worked very carefully!

 

[Jimonlimon]

Holy <bad word!>.

...
When my electrician replaced my panel, he pulled the meter. To pull the meter, he wore long gloves, a face shield, and was standing on a 6" piece of plastic. Great safety precautions, but not needed, and there was no arc flash. But he was ready.

Assuming the loads are all disconnected (breakers opened) there should be no arc at all. That's why the prudent thing is to pull the meter when replacing a main breaker.

 

[ERD50]

That's amusing. Our electric meter was replaced a few years ago, giving us new smart meters. The contractor was about 20 years old, and he walked up the block pulling a wagon full of meters. He asked me to stay ten feet away, but he had no protective equipment at all. Pulled the old one and installed the new one in about two minutes total, then went on to the next house.

It's plug and play. See this video at ~ 1:18. The only tool he used was a pliers to cut the tag.

I'm a little surprised he uses two hands to measure voltage. I'd want to go in with one hand, clip that lead, and then probe the other with one hand. You can't get a shock hand-to-hand (across your chest) that way. The old rule of keeping one hand in your pocket while working on live wires.

-ERD50

 

[TheWizard]

No, your electrician should not be working on a panel with the main breaker on. That violates OSHA and the NEC.
You also are placing yourself being liable for accident that may occur. I hope your electrician's liability insurance is paid up.

Oh Jesus, please find a new hobby to comment on...

 

[dflowers1]

Perhaps you should follow your own advice.

 

[tryan]

Watched my electrician swap the MAIN breaker with line from the street HOT. As he did it he joke "stand back ... I might be WELDING!".

Then went on to say the cost would triple if the power company was brought in to cut the power at the meter. The meter had a collar lock.

 

[tryan]

.... and the tenant would be left wo power for most of a day if schedules didn't align.

 

[MC Rider]

Just tell them to be careful and I am dialing 9 and 1.
Don't make me dial another 1.

 

[street]

It's plug and play. See this video at ~ 1:18. The only tool he used was a pliers to cut the tag.

I'm a little surprised he uses two hands to measure voltage. I'd want to go in with one hand, clip that lead, and then probe the other with one hand. You can't get a shock hand-to-hand (across your chest) that way. The old rule of keeping one hand in your pocket while working on live wires.

-ERD50

I changed 1000's of meters in my lifetime. Forty years ago, you just pulled them no rubber gloves, no eye protection or FR clothing no safety guidelines/procedure that were followed.

Things have changed and everyone in the business needs to follow all safety rules and use PPE.

The one thing that did change was you always trip main or have no load on that meter when pulling it or installing a meter. I have seen meters literally burned from installing which are trying to pick up that load or trying to break that load when pulling it.

I would never pull a 3-phse meter unless all load is taken of the that service or to install a new meter.

I did see one time a wrong meter was installed in the wrong socket or service type, and it wasn't pretty. The guy got burned really bad. Most meters like alike but they aren't, and an instrument meter inserted in a socket that looks the same will cause a serious situation.

 

[wallygator69]

It is 5 seconds, I am not sure why some electricians are willing to work hot...but I don't want to insult a pro. I assume maybe it's not wise to energize everything all at once when it comes time to re-energize? But we could throw all the breakers, and bring them back one at a time, wouldn't add much time [this is my untrained guess].

It is a pain to reset all your clocks and shutdown all your electronics when it;s pretty simple.



I have installed breakers many times without shutting the main. Once everything is set down stream and N and GND are screwed in the panel, you connect the hot wire to the breaker. You put the tab end into the slot first and then breaker just folds/slides into the panel.



I'd let him do what he wants.


Wally

 

[Midpack]

^^^ Again, the job from the OP was done last Saturday without incident. I let the electrician do as he pleased. But you’re all welcome to continue the general discussion.

 

[old medic]

He asked me to stay ten feet away, but he had no protective equipment at all. Pulled the old one .......

I have pull a couple dozen meters over the years. A common practice on structure fires. Only gear was fire turnout gear.

 

[Fermion]

Electricity would only arc if there were a current already flowing (or the voltage was high enough to ionize the air, which is unlikely on a relatively low voltage house panel).

If you pulled the meter on a 400 amp service while you were charging your two model-S, running the induction stove, and welding the frame on your 1958 vette restoration project, you would probably get an arc.

 

[JoeWras]

I have pull a couple dozen meters over the years. A common practice on structure fires. Only gear was fire turnout gear.

Well, that's a lot better than flip flops, shorts and a T-shirt on a hot sweaty day.

 

[joesxm3]

Well the electrician is here and,surprisingly, agreed with all of my suggestions based on my research arch. I don't seem to have ticked him off very much.

He suggested a harder conduit run, but to a much better location. He says he can do it without a junction box, so still only two wire connections.

We reviewed the job plan and now I am doing my best to leave him alome.


It took me most of yesterday to clear the area in the basement to run the conduit.

 

[Car-Guy]

Well the electrician is here and,surprisingly, agreed with all of my suggestions based on my research arch. I don't seem to have ticked him off very much.

He suggested a harder conduit run, but to a much better location. He says he can do it without a junction box, so still only two wire connections.

We reviewed the job plan and now I am doing my best to leave him alome.


It took me most of yesterday to clear the area in the basement to run the conduit.

Did he make any suggestions to you on how to move/clear things safely so you wouldn't get hurt?

 

[Fermion]

Did he make any suggestions to you on how to move/clear things safely so you wouldn't get hurt?

If she did get hurt, could she file against the electrician's homeowner's insurance?

 

[joesxm3]

He should have warned be that trying to get under stuff with a sore knee would make it worse.

Well, the job is finished. He did a wonderful job and the car is charging now.

As far as all the picky stuff. My panel is not compatible with bolt on breaker. So I just told him to get a heavy duty one even if it costs more.

I offered to have him turn off main breaker but he did not want to. I just mentioned it in passing.

He balked at the idea of using a torque driver. He said he would get one if I insisted, but I did not push the issue.

I told him the remark about electrician telling how to clean. He laughed.

I have been working with this guy for 30 years, both at my home and the data center before I retired, so I know he does good work.

 

[Midpack]

He balked at the idea of using a torque driver. He said he would get one if I insisted, but I did not push the issue.

I hoped he would, but my electrician did not torque down any connections either. While it's probably ideal, the guy has been a full time professional electrician for over 30 years, so I guess I will trust he tightened everything sufficiently. He did tighten with force, and he did wiggle and retighten as recommended. I can always buy a torque driver myself, but not planning on it.

 

[joesxm3]

I asked if I could hire him in a month or two to come and inspect but probably will not be necessary.

Seems like 40% will take about 4.5 hours at 32 amps.