tough love -- college decisions

[Souschef]

I am concerned about his career choice. I went to a private engineering college in NY. I was very immature (16), but was able to slide through.
We started with an entering class of 800 and graduated 125. We lost half the class the first year. These students did not have a grasp of the basics and could not handle the lab work.
Some of the older students picked on me because I was so young, but my
schadenfreude was to see them flunk out while I went forward.
I lived at home and commuted to school. My parents paid for school when it was a lot less expensive than now. When I matured I thanked them for the opportunity and for putting up with my poor performance in school.

 

[ncbill]

yeah, I considered my private school expensive when I was there @~$15,000/year (now ~$65,000/year)

things are falling into place with our current high school senior.

although they were not accepted at their first choice (only ~250 spots) they were accepted at all their other schools.

they didn't get the Army ROTC scholarship from the most recent board, but the recruiting officer at their current first choice $$$ private school called to offer a one year scholarship (~50% off total) with the expectation that they'll receive a 3-year AROTC scholarship from the final board (will know by mid-April), though even if awarded it could be to a different school.

 

[ivinsfan]

I am concerned about his career choice. I went to a private engineering college in NY. I was very immature (16), but was able to slide through.
We started with an entering class of 800 and graduated 125. We lost half the class the first year. These students did not have a grasp of the basics and could not handle the lab work.
Some of the older students picked on me because I was so young, but my
schadenfreude was to see them flunk out while I went forward.
I lived at home and commuted to school. My parents paid for school when it was a lot less expensive than now. When I matured I thanked them for the opportunity and for putting up with my poor performance in school.

This is so true,my SIL who is now senior software developer started out with an engineering major. He and my DD started dating the first semester of college. After the first year and a half he looked at my daughter who was getting an MIS degree from the highly ranked business school and said, What the heck, that looks way more fun, easier and much more employable then a engineering degree, I'm out.

Due to some overlap in core classes he was able to finish in 4 years and never second guessed that choice.
But to fight co-existent battles of where to go and what major at the same time is not necessary. A kid can start with the core classes, get a feel for what the major entails, feedback from advisors. That can come later and it won't need to be the parents dropping the hammer.

 

[aja8888]

ME degree

Once I successfully got through the six calculus and differential equations courses, I knew I would make it as an engineer.

That, and some of the applied engineering courses (thermodynamics, materials science, etc) is what separates the men from the boys, so to say.

 

[Live Free]

This entire response could be completely off-base, but just throwing this out there in case it is applicable.

I haven't read all the replies, but just wanted to address the introvert personality you mentioned. I have heard from many parents of HS boys that they are introverted and lack social skills, blow assignments, etc. An additional piece of information that many of these stories have in common is that a lot of these young men are gaming in their rooms at home. They have a small, core group of friends they communicate with over the internet every day after school while gaming. Many times gaming well into the night. This feeds well into a introvert personality - no face-to-face contact, no struggle to figure out what to talk about (you talk about the game you are playing), and limited social engagement with other introverts. The problem, of course, is that gaming is a HUGE time-suck and school work suffers and the drive to find other productive social outputs feels unneeded and is not pursued.

I have seen this pattern A LOT in this generation, especially among young men. I don't know if this is your DS, but if it is, I would tackle that first. If he is overseas he can easily sit in his room there and game away with his same core group of on-line buddies. And a whole year overseas will be just like his previous home life - no new experiences really and the education playing second fiddle to the gaming.

Just a thought. Disregard if this is not your son.

 

[stargazer08]

Live Free you have just described my nephews!

 

[redduck]

Since you created this thread for your son's benefit (and maybe yours, too) I suggest you ask your son to read all the posts in this thread as it's full of ideas and suggestions of people who "have been there, done that" and how they "done that."

 

[Luck_Club]

I think that would just fuel the anger.

He is coming around to the idea, and we will visit next week. We could come back with him being very enthusiastic about the idea. If not there are worse prisons

 

[redduck]

I think that would just fuel the anger.

He is coming around to the idea, and we will visit next week. We could come back with him being very enthusiastic about the idea. If not there are worse prisons

Are you responding to my post (#107)

I got lost here (or maybe I missed a post of yours). Have you mentioned "anger" in a previous post? Who is angry and about what? And where are you visiting? And what enthusiastic ideas are you referring to?

 

[Brat]

I had the advantage of living near Powell's bookstore. Used their resources to work with each child to develop a list of colleges to visit. There may be similar school selection tools online now.

 

[Luck_Club]

Are you responding to my post (#107)

I got lost here (or maybe I missed a post of yours). Have you mentioned "anger" in a previous post? Who is angry and about what? And where are you visiting? And what enthusiastic ideas are you referring to?

Yes I was.

We are visiting the school in Ireland. I hadn't mentioned the anger. He was quite upset when we sat him down and told him based on the maturity or lack of he had shown since last June, we weren't going to fund the 4 yr University yet, and his choice was CC or Ireland.

We laid out the path CC would likely take, and the options we figured Ireland would have if he didn't like it, and wanted to come back after 1 year.

Sunday we sat down and I made him print out the maps going from the airport to the school, school to down town, school to hotel etc. I plan on letting him direct me during the trip based on his maps. This is in an effort to make him feel comfortable that he can do it on his own. As a closet micro manager it will be difficult to walk the wrong way while keeping my mouth shut, but I will try.

I told our friends we would meet up for 1 dinner or lunch on Sunday. Their kids, a bit older then DS, will take him out Saturday night; while I drink alone with nobody else. They would have been happy to take us around the entire time, but I told them this was a chance to get him comfortable on his own.
Monday we visit the school, housing, bank, and come back Tuesday.

 

[Luck_Club]

This entire response could be completely off-base, but just throwing this out there in case it is applicable.

I haven't read all the replies, but just wanted to address the introvert personality you mentioned. I have heard from many parents of HS boys that they are introverted and lack social skills, blow assignments, etc. An additional piece of information that many of these stories have in common is that a lot of these young men are gaming in their rooms at home. They have a small, core group of friends they communicate with over the internet every day after school while gaming. Many times gaming well into the night. This feeds well into a introvert personality - no face-to-face contact, no struggle to figure out what to talk about (you talk about the game you are playing), and limited social engagement with other introverts. The problem, of course, is that gaming is a HUGE time-suck and school work suffers and the drive to find other productive social outputs feels unneeded and is not pursued.

I have seen this pattern A LOT in this generation, especially among young men. I don't know if this is your DS, but if it is, I would tackle that first. If he is overseas he can easily sit in his room there and game away with his same core group of on-line buddies. And a whole year overseas will be just like his previous home life - no new experiences really and the education playing second fiddle to the gaming.

Just a thought. Disregard if this is not your son.

I think this may be going on to a certain extent. Not huge but enough. we aren't going to suggest he take his X box, and will probably discourage it if he brings it up. We have had him restart his Whats App, which we have used overseas before. It offers a more reliable communication then texting, while avoiding international data rates.

 

[ivinsfan]

Yes I was.

We are visiting the school in Ireland. I hadn't mentioned the anger. He was quite upset when we sat him down and told him based on the maturity or lack of he had shown since last June, we weren't going to fund the 4 yr University yet, and his choice was CC or Ireland.

We laid out the path CC would likely take, and the options we figured Ireland would have if he didn't like it, and wanted to come back after 1 year.

Sunday we sat down and I made him print out the maps going from the airport to the school, school to down town, school to hotel etc. I plan on letting him direct me during the trip based on his maps. This is in an effort to make him feel comfortable that he can do it on his own. As a closet micro manager it will be difficult to walk the wrong way while keeping my mouth shut, but I will try.

I told our friends we would meet up for 1 dinner or lunch on Sunday. Their kids, a bit older then DS, will take him out Saturday night; while I drink alone with nobody else. They would have been happy to take us around the entire time, but I told them this was a chance to get him comfortable on his own.
Monday we visit the school, housing, bank, and come back Tuesday.

Dang what could possibly go wrong here, you are forcing him to choose between two options he doesn't want, without even giving him the chance to succeed or fail at the local uni.

If things crash and burn he is most likely going to blame you and therefore not take any personal responsibility to improve on his own.

I have a nephew who was forced to go to the local CC, flunked out the first semester (which isn't easy) and when he got scolded by his Dad,said "this is you and Mom's fault, you made me go..."

Take this comment as a general comment and not aimed at you personally. I have seen a few "adult" kids get so micro-managed by their parents in every aspect of everyday life, that they lack the basic confidence to function independently . I.E. the direction thing,he gets he gets lost and has to find another way to his destination, grownups do this everyday. . That isn't something most parents would do for an 18 year old in a English speaking country.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Dang what could possibly go wrong here, you are forcing him to choose between two options he doesn't want, without even giving him the chance to succeed or fail at the local uni.

One of our friends kids committed suicide in a high stress college situation. Maybe he would have taken that path at a lower stress school and closer to family support, but I have wondered if that would have made a difference.

 

[samclem]

That isn't something most parents would do [-]for[/-] to an 18 year old in a English speaking country.

My edit.
A "closet micromanager"? I wonder if it is really a secret to DS.
I do agree with others who said that the more your son believes he was making his own choice, the more ownership he is likely to feel and the more motivated he will likely feel to make it a success.

 

[DFDubb]

How on earth does navigating from an airport to the city using a map have any indication of how he will do going to university in a foreign country? You do realize every phone being sold today has GPS right? If you're so concerned about his ability to navigate, you should totally force him to work at Pizza Hut.

This is a weird thread with very weird "options". I've never seen a parent put up so much of a fight to the thought of their child attending the local university. Dare I say, that is the dream for 95% of the population?

 

[Luck_Club]

Dang what could possibly go wrong here, you are forcing him to choose between two options he doesn't want, without even giving him the chance to succeed or fail at the local uni.

Your right. I'm wrong. you win.

As his parent's we have every year since kindergarten contemplated holding him back to mature. DW is a ES teacher and saw the signs, but we kept telling ourselves he would catch up. He never did.

Your comments and criticism of our tough love has been noted, repeatedly.

 

[Luck_Club]

One of our friends kids committed suicide in a high stress college situation. Maybe he would have taken that path at a lower stress school and closer to family support, but I have wondered if that would have made a difference.

Thanks. That was not one of our fears. More of the kid that in frat hazing accidentally kills himself was one. The options we gave him eliminated that aspect of college life, while still giving him the opportunity to experience it next year if he wants.

In Ireland they have no Greek life, and binge drinking is much less since the kids have been drinking socially since about 16.

 

[Luck_Club]

How on earth does navigating from an airport to the city using a map have any indication of how he will do going to university in a foreign country? You do realize every phone being sold today has GPS right? If you're so concerned about his ability to navigate, you should totally force him to work at Pizza Hut.

This is a weird thread with very weird "options". I've never seen a parent put up so much of a fight to the thought of their child attending the local university. Dare I say, that is the dream for 95% of the population?

I'm glad your enjoying the thread.

The map is more to get familiar with bus routes and the like.

I do realize the local UNI is a dream, and 1 that I'm delaying not denying. A point which seems to be getting lost.

 

[ivinsfan]

Your right. I'm wrong. you win.

As his parent's we have every year since kindergarten contemplated holding him back to mature. DW is a ES teacher and saw the signs, but we kept telling ourselves he would catch up. He never did.

Your comments and criticism of our tough love has been noted, repeatedly.

It's all about perspective I guess, I've had a niece and nephew both crash and burn in a spectacular manner. A protective parent finds it really hard to be objective.

I wish you and your boy all the success in the world,and if my comments gave you any other impression, you have my apology.

I don't have a dog in this fight and want you all to win. A true gap year involves no school, maybe traveling or volunteering or even working. Part of the value of the gap to let kids mature and get into a more adult mind set.

 

[Luck_Club]

This is a weird thread with very weird "options". I've never seen a parent put up so much of a fight to the thought of their child attending the local university. Dare I say, that is the dream for 95% of the population?

I sent DD right off to college after HS, she was ready. The one thing we as parents regret is not really considering the crime in the area of the school a little more.

 

[Luck_Club]

It's all about perspective I guess, I've had a niece and nephew both crash and burn in a spectacular manner. A protective parent finds it really hard to be objective.

I wish you and your boy all the success in the world,and if my comments gave you any other impression, you have my apology.

And I experienced a brother crash and burn, and at 40+ still hasn't recovered. So it is close to my heart. Thanks for the well wishes, I will come back to fill in the blanks during his journey. The first step is the visit next week, and we are hoping he will get excited about the program and "buy in" to it.

 

[Ronstar]

I don’t know anything about overseas gap schools. I am quite familiar with local junior college.

My parents only supported me for 2 years of junior college. My engineering instructor put me in contact with my first employer. Later switched jobs to a new firm that paid for the final 2 years at a nearby university.

I wasn’t ready for a four year university right out of high school. Sounds like OP’s son isn’t either. IMO, a community college is probably the best route for him until he gets acclimated to higher education.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Thanks. That was not one of our fears. More of the kid that in frat hazing accidentally kills himself was one. The options we gave him eliminated that aspect of college life, while still giving him the opportunity to experience it next year if he wants.

In Ireland they have no Greek life, and binge drinking is much less since the kids have been drinking socially since about 16.

I looked that up, since we have family and had many employees from across the pond and that was not our experience. Drinking and going to the pub seem to be national past-times:

"Two in three Irish college students are drinking hazardous amounts of alcohol every week."

https://www.joe.ie/news/two-in-thre...azardous-amounts-of-alcohol-every-week-483014

But I will stop after this since your mind is made up despite many great suggestions on this thread, except to suggest if you don't like the advice here maybe a family counseling session would be helpful. I suspect a therapist might help give your child more of a voice over his own future. I can see your reasons against the local uni in favor of a CC, but the overseas option for a introvert not wanting to go seems harsh. Even though they speak English - we can see from our own kids and their cousins hairstyles, clothes styles, sports and music can be pretty different and it might be hard to fit in as an introverted foreigner.

 

[Luck_Club]

I looked that up, since we have family and had many employees from across the pond and that was not our experience. Drinking and going to the pub seem to be national past-times:

"Two in three Irish college students are drinking hazardous amounts of alcohol every week."

https://www.joe.ie/news/two-in-thre...azardous-amounts-of-alcohol-every-week-483014

The study calls 2-3 pints an unsafe level?

Hardly the punch induced craze of most college frat parties.

The key here is it is more social in pub type drinking vs basement of a frat house, drink till you puke type drinking.