A sign? Way or No Way?

[omni550]

On a separate but related note, I just read 2 books by Dr. Raymond Moody Jr., "Life After Life" and "Reflections on Life After Life".

Dr. Moody is a medical doctor who started noticing certain similarities in the accounts mentioned by near death patients. That prompted him to do an in-depth study of people's NDE (near death experiences), even cataloging those things which seemed to occur most frequently. He even devoted quite a few pages to arguments against NDEs.

Fascinating stuff.

omni

 

[TromboneAl]

I had a completely weird, unusual, unexplainable thing happen to me. But no one I knew had died recently, so I completely forgot about it. That's why I can't remember what it was. It was very weird, though.

I've realized that unexplainable things happen to me frequently. Here's one: I was working on my bike, and I dropped a nut and a bolt from my hands. This was an area of the garage that was very clean. I found the nut, but the bolt, which was pretty big, was nowhere to be found. I searched everywhere on the floor, and could not find it. I thought about my uncle, who had been a mechanic, and liked to play practical jokes, then I found that the bolt had caught on the brake, and didn't fall all the way to the floor.

Recently, when Lena was in Sweden, I was home alone, reading a scary book. All of a sudden the television came on at full volume. I jumped a foot off the floor. No, wait, this has an explanation. If the Tivo is set to the main menu for a long period, it switches back to "watch live TV."

Our power went off three times in a row, for a few seconds each time, a several weekends ago.

The electric knife sharpener didn't work the other day. It's worked fine for 12 years. I took it apart, and looked for a problem and didn't find anything. I didn't do anything to it. I put it together again, and then it worked perfectly! Weird.

I got home yesterday from a bike ride, and entered the code on the garage door, and it didn't open. I did it four times, and nothing. This opener has always worked, and I've used it hundreds of times. I looked in the window and saw that the power was on, and I tried it again, and: It Worked!

The other day when leaving the house, I had a strong premonition that we were going to have a car accident. We didn't have one, and I remembered that I almost always have that premonition when going out. Even more so when going on a long trip. But someday it will be correct.

 

[freebird5825]

...Plus there were times when I felt he was in the house . Before these things happened I would never believed in these things happening .

After my husband passed, the morning of his memorial service was very emotionally intense for me. I wasn't getting much sleep, and in a semi-awake state, I felt him kiss my lips while I was still in bed. I saw and heard nothing, just felt his kiss on my lips. To give you some perspective of the suddenness of his passing, he had chest pains and 6 hours later, was gone from an undetected dissecting aortic aneurism. I was with him every second, even in the ambulance. There was nothing left unsaid or not done.

Did I imagine that kiss? Hell no.

After that, I had this strong sense of his presence in the house and outside in the yard. Nothing audible or visual, but the type of thing that made me turn around and look. It was oddly comforting.
My doctor and grief counselor assured me that [-]I wasn't losing my mind[/-] this was very common for people who were as tightly bonded as we were.
The feelings of his presence lasted for approx 6 months. It may have been strong memories and familiar settings triggering the feelings...who knows ?
The last dream I had of him was him standing a distance away from me in a wooded area. After that, the sense of his presence went away. In an odd way, I missed that.

It has been almost 7 years, and writing down these things today still brings me comfort. He is still in my heart, and always will be.

 

[Ready-4-ER-at-14]

I stayed with a quite elderly woman for a while who had mild dementia. About a week before she died I overheard her talking to deceased family members. When I came around the corner she initially denied it, but later confided that they were there to prepare her. Some say physical breakdowns in the mind bring old memories to the surface as reality. The visitors returned to her moments after I was out of sight based on her renewed hushed conversation.

I knew something was strange one day at college during finals. Turned out the grandfather I was closest to had died then but no one told me till finals were over days later lest it adversely affect me.

 

[kumquat]

Two friends of ours died Dec 26. The first at 01:15, she was a 53 year old physician. The second at 01:35, he was an 82 year old patient of friend one.

Coincidence? [-]Damn right. [/-] You bet.

 

[Moemg]

My Sister who is a nun was in mass when her prayer book fell open to the passage " Someone you love is dying " . My Dad died shortly after .

 

[Purron]

After my husband passed, the morning of his memorial service was very emotionally intense for me. I wasn't getting much sleep, and in a semi-awake state, I felt him kiss my lips while I was still in bed. I saw and heard nothing, just felt his kiss on my lips. To give you some perspective of the suddenness of his passing, he had chest pains and 6 hours later, was gone from an undetected dissecting aortic aneurism. I was with him every second, even in the ambulance. There was nothing left unsaid or not done.

Did I imagine that kiss? Hell no.

After that, I had this strong sense of his presence in the house and outside in the yard. Nothing audible or visual, but the type of thing that made me turn around and look. It was oddly comforting.
My doctor and grief counselor assured me that [-]I wasn't losing my mind[/-] this was very common for people who were as tightly bonded as we were.
The feelings of his presence lasted for approx 6 months. It may have been strong memories and familiar settings triggering the feelings...who knows ?
The last dream I had of him was him standing a distance away from me in a wooded area. After that, the sense of his presence went away. In an odd way, I missed that.

It has been almost 7 years, and writing down these things today still brings me comfort. He is still in my heart, and always will be.

This is beautiful freebird.

 

[KM]

Yes. Three times. Once when my grandmother passed away and twice when my father died. I won't go into the details - but they events were very real (to me). I have never felt the need to convince others. People who have experienced similar events know they are real. Not likely to convince many people who haven't experienced it.

Were the experiences a result of my brain seeing/experiencing something that wasn't really there? Maybe. But I dont think so. I do believe we are some form of energy and that it takes time for that energy to "dissipate" or go wherever it is we are supposed to go.

Frankly, when I read the OP, though, I expected more "are you crazy?" responses. Interesting to hear that others have had some odd experiences also.

 

[Khan]

I don't see dead people.

 

[easysurfer]

Yes. Three times. Once when my grandmother passed away and twice when my father died. I won't go into the details - but they events were very real (to me). I have never felt the need to convince others. People who have experienced similar events know they are real. Not likely to convince many people who haven't experienced it.

Were the experiences a result of my brain seeing/experiencing something that wasn't really there? Maybe. But I dont think so. I do believe we are some form of energy and that it takes time for that energy to "dissipate" or go wherever it is we are supposed to go.

Frankly, when I read the OP, though, I expected more "are you crazy?" responses. Interesting to hear that others have had some odd experiences also.

When I posted, I wasn't sure what to expect as to what others experienced or how many also had experiences.

I know it may just be wishful thinking on my part, but I'd like to believe that we exist for more than just our very very brief time on earth. Or that there is a reason why I a brother, a son, etc. to this person rather than just by chance. If there is a soul that escapes the body at death, the energy would have to go somewhere. Usually, energy just doesn't disappear.

Update about the lights on/off incident. Seems that others in my friend's family also experienced outages. Some said their power was out for a few hours. So perhaps this was related to what happend that I witnessed? But they were from a different town. The son of the person who passed away said his lights also turned on/off. His wife said her TV undexpected turned off by itself, then when it turned back on and the volumed turned on louder. Who really knows if it's just the mind trying to comfort oneself, pure coincidence or more.

 

[ERD50]

I don't see dead people.

But you probably could if you wanted to.

I'll say right up front that I'm not a 'believer' in this kind of stuff. But I did have a very eerie, odd feeling once that convinced me that I would have attributed it to something if I were predisposed to think that way.

When I was moving into this house, I was stressed out over a number of things. My mind wandered and I recall wondering if anyone had died in this house. Later, I felt a chill and felt something I never felt before. But there was nothing to it. But I'm sure I could have assigned something to it.

I've got a stereo that is 'possessed' - it has woken us up at 3Am a couple times, and switched channels and modes randomly (it may take months). I finally found a loose connection and it's been OK for a year now. Someone from the after-life, or just an oxide film? The engineer in me says oxides.

My brother was also telling stories once about an old farmhouse he was renting out. Seems several tenants reported odd things. Just listening to the stories made me start to hear things. We are very open to the power of suggestion.

I know it may just be wishful thinking on my part, but I'd like to believe ...

A crucial first step, IMO.

If there is a soul that escapes the body at death, the energy would have to go somewhere. Usually, energy just doesn't disappear.

I'm always flummoxed at this talk of 'energy', and the need for it to 'go somewhere'. Why would something spiritual need 'energy'? What 'energy' are we talking about? Can I read it with a meter? Can we harness it and reduce our dependence on oil/coal? If it can't be measured, why does it have to go somewhere? When my furnace shuts off, the energy goes somewhere, but that doesn't cause the lights to flicker in another town. Why not?

I honestly think that power of suggestion, our wants/needs to make some sense of the world, our wants/needs to find patterns and assign causes, and our dealing with grief are all the explanations we need for these things.

I wonder why the stereo didn't act up around the time that some people close to me passed on? Or why their 'energy' didn't fix it - that would have been nice.

-ERD50

 

[Fireup2020]

The subject of afterlife, ghosts, aliens, etc. is a topic I refuse to be "all in" or "all out" on...too many well-adjusted friends have had experiences that defy logic. (Curious to hear those stories on our next visit to your neck of the woods Ha!) I have experienced enough weird personal experiences without explanations, that I honestly do not know...and that is ok with me!

 

[haha]

Just being around my former wife made a believer out of me. She has kept journals for years, and too many times something big happened to family or a friend and she searched a journal and there it was, strikingly similar or identical, from a dream or strong waking experience earlier. Also, once she called me at work and said to check my brakes before I came home. It was an old Chevy truck with a single fluid resevoir for the brake and clutch, and it was dry and had been leaking. She knew nothing about mechanics, but she might have saved my life that day.

Another thing is that people with these sort of gifts often can recognize one another. Once years ago we were camping in Huatabampo Bay in Sonora. An old man appeared in our camp and introduced himself as a brujo. He looked at my wife, and immediately recognized her similarity and started discussing the occult from a Mexican wizard's POV. What a great time that was!

When she was very young and we were first married she became a poltergeist if something was making her angry or frustrated. Her brother came for a very long visit which turned into he and I playing in the surf, fishing, and coming home and expecting to be fed. One afternoon we were sitting of the couch waiting for dinner and the knives and forks started flying off the table. Another time we were staying with friend in the Bay Area and the woman of the couple was always walking around naked. One day she opened the refrigerator and a bottle of wine came out and flew across the room and smashed itself on the concrete floor completely across the table from the fridge. Her BF and I were sitting at the table, we just looked at one another and smiled. Women are difficult enough without having to worry about their being brujas.

Ha

 

[DangerMouse]

I'm a great believer in these signs.

For example, the night my FIL died. He was in Australia, I was in the California. I went to bed, suddenly I woke up in the middle of the night. For some reason I was compelled to gt up and check what time it was. Once I knew the exact time I went back to bed and fell asleep.

Next morning I woke up and I had a text on my phone from SIL telling me FIL had died at the time of his passing. The time of his passing was the exact time I had woken. My phone was switched off so that had not woken me.

 

[WhoDaresWins]

Regarding my previous post, about the notes my husband left on a sheet of paper stuck in a book, he never wrote notes on separate sheets of paper like this. Except this one time, probably done when the book came out (1996 copyright, he died in 2003). His usual practice was to highlight passages in marker or underline them in ink and write notes in the margins. I did not find any other separate notes in his other books. I would have pitched this book if I had not noticed the paper protruding ever so slightly.

Also, he never talked in his sleep. Not ever, in all the years I knew him. He did not see people who were not there or hear voices or anything like that. Nor do I (thank goodness!)

 

[easysurfer]

But you probably could if you wanted to.

I'll say right up front that I'm not a 'believer' in this kind of stuff. But I did have a very eerie, odd feeling once that convinced me that I would have attributed it to something if I were predisposed to think that way.

When I was moving into this house, I was stressed out over a number of things. My mind wandered and I recall wondering if anyone had died in this house. Later, I felt a chill and felt something I never felt before. But there was nothing to it. But I'm sure I could have assigned something to it.

I've got a stereo that is 'possessed' - it has woken us up at 3Am a couple times, and switched channels and modes randomly (it may take months). I finally found a loose connection and it's been OK for a year now. Someone from the after-life, or just an oxide film? The engineer in me says oxides.

My brother was also telling stories once about an old farmhouse he was renting out. Seems several tenants reported odd things. Just listening to the stories made me start to hear things. We are very open to the power of suggestion.



A crucial first step, IMO.



I'm always flummoxed at this talk of 'energy', and the need for it to 'go somewhere'. Why would something spiritual need 'energy'? What 'energy' are we talking about? Can I read it with a meter? Can we harness it and reduce our dependence on oil/coal? If it can't be measured, why does it have to go somewhere? When my furnace shuts off, the energy goes somewhere, but that doesn't cause the lights to flicker in another town. Why not?

I honestly think that power of suggestion, our wants/needs to make some sense of the world, our wants/needs to find patterns and assign causes, and our dealing with grief are all the explanations we need for these things.

I wonder why the stereo didn't act up around the time that some people close to me passed on? Or why their 'energy' didn't fix it - that would have been nice.

-ERD50

Are you ready to say that only things which us humans can explain are real? The rest, since it may be out of our perecption is not real, does not exits? Isn't it possible that maybe there are forces/events/energy out there that we can't measure but are there?

I'm not saying that lights seeming powering off then on again, seeming by itself is definitely a sign influcenced by someone's passing. But I leave open the chance that when someone dies, a spirt, soul, energy remains, at least for awhile until it moves on. Otherwise, if what once was a life becomes just nothing..that's sad. Then there really isn't much purpose if our lives because if you live to 100 or 75 or 50 is virtually nothing relation to all of time (if there is such a thing as time..but that's a whole different discussion ).

 

[ERD50]

Are you ready to say that only things which us humans can explain are real? The rest, since it may be out of our perecption is not real, does not exits?

Not at all. I can't explain gravity (and AFAIK the scientists can't fully explain it either), but it is very real to me. I've never been to China, but I accept that it is there.

Isn't it possible that maybe there are forces/events/energy out there that we can't measure but are there?

Possibly, even likely. But I don't know what people mean when they talk about a spirit having 'energy'. If we don't know what it is, how do we know it has to "go somewhere"? Why make assumptions about how something we don't understand "must" work?

...But I leave open the chance that when someone dies, a spirt, soul, energy remains, at least for awhile until it moves on. Otherwise, if what once was a life becomes just nothing..that's sad. Then there really isn't much purpose if our lives because if you live to 100 or 75 or 50 is virtually nothing relation to all of time (if there is such a thing as time..but that's a whole different discussion ).

I'm not willing to accept that there is any 'purpose' to our lives other than propagating the species, which is just a natural process of living things. I don't think it's sad, I just think it is. I might actually look at this from another viewpoint (and I'm not being critical/judgmental here, I'm just tying to illuminate another side of this), and say that it might be sad to go through life assuming there is some higher purpose. Why not accept it for what it is (obviously, my opinion of what it is) and make the best of it?

I get into this discussion with a friend every once in a while - he tells me that if there is no higher purpose, why do 'good' in our lives? I tell him I see plenty of reasons to do good, even if I'm just dust when I die. Society (and my personal life) works much smoother when I do good, it motivates others to also do good in return. One way to look at it is that doing good is a selfish thing. And I see no reason to apologize for that either. It just is, IMO.

edit/add: Let me add this, so that I don't come across too "Spock-like". I do believe in a form of 'spirituality'. The people close to me who have passed on are still 'alive' to me in a certain way. I often recall the things that they taught me, the examples they set, the good times we had, and I try to emulate the good things they did while they were alive. I guess I could say that their lives served a 'purpose' that extended beyond their deaths. Their 'spirit' is still alive. That's plenty good enough for me, I don't need flickering lights. YMMV.

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

Just being around my former wife made a believer out of me. She has kept journals for years, and too many times something big happened to family or a friend and she searched a journal and there it was, strikingly similar or identical, from a dream or strong waking experience earlier.

Ha

I'm not out to change anyone's mind on this, but just to explain my skepticism, this means little to me, unless you also did the opposite. Did you look into the journal for signs that never connected with anything, or did you only look for connections? Were the connections better than chance? A stopped clock is right twice a day.

More importantly, could she time the market?

-ERD50

 

[haha]

More importantly, could she time the market?

-ERD50

No; that is why we ultimately broke up.

 

[easysurfer]

Not at all. I can't explain gravity (and AFAIK the scientists can't fully explain it either), but it is very real to me. I've never been to China, but I accept that it is there.



Possibly, even likely. But I don't know what people mean when they talk about a spirit having 'energy'. If we don't know what it is, how do we know it has to "go somewhere"? Why make assumptions about how something we don't understand "must" work?




I'm not willing to accept that there is any 'purpose' to our lives other than propagating the species, which is just a natural process of living things. I don't think it's sad, I just think it is. I might actually look at this from another viewpoint (and I'm not being critical/judgmental here, I'm just tying to illuminate another side of this), and say that it might be sad to go through life assuming there is some higher purpose. Why not accept it for what it is (obviously, my opinion of what it is) and make the best of it?

I get into this discussion with a friend every once in a while - he tells me that if there is no higher purpose, why do 'good' in our lives? I tell him I see plenty of reasons to do good, even if I'm just dust when I die. Society (and my personal life) works much smoother when I do good, it motivates others to also do good in return. One way to look at it is that doing good is a selfish thing. And I see no reason to apologize for that either. It just is, IMO.

edit/add: Let me add this, so that I don't come across too "Spock-like". I do believe in a form of 'spirituality'. The people close to me who have passed on are still 'alive' to me in a certain way. I often recall the things that they taught me, the examples they set, the good times we had, and I try to emulate the good things they did while they were alive. I guess I could say that their lives served a 'purpose' that extended beyond their deaths. Their 'spirit' is still alive. That's plenty good enough for me, I don't need flickering lights. YMMV.

-ERD50

I think there is a danger and a need to make assumptions. The danger is you know what they say about the word Assume. As Felix Unger in an episode of the Odd Couple well pointed out, assuming can make and ASS out of U and ME. ASS-U-ME. Yet at the same time, by making assumptions (not wild guesses) is how we learn. On time, people said, "let's assume the world is not flat..and try out that theory..."

I do agree about if there's a choice between doing good than not do good, why not just do good even if there is no reward. When I was a kid, when I saw a bug, I'd squish it. That was how I was brought up. Bugs are pests, stomp on it. But as I got older, if they aren't like attacking me or colonizing my home, no need to squish it if it's not going do anything bad to me.

Yet I do believe that if our sole purpose is to propagate the species and nothing more that is sad. Than our existence on earth, colonizing this third rock from the sun isn't really much more than the bugs in our backyard.

Still nothing "wrong" with that view, just a choice on how to look at things.

An example, I have a brother I'm really close to, about a year older than me. I don't think he has ever owned a camera. Looking at old photos, reflecting on how people changed over the years isn't too important to him. My mom died almost 20 years ago. I think he only visited her gravsite maybe once since then. Not out of selfishness, but to him I think his way of thinking is, "she's gone, what real difference does it make?" On the otherhand, I've owned probably about 20 cameras in my lifetime and like to see photos on how people change over the years. Seeing life's timeline. I remember when my mom was still alive she said, all she wants is for her kids to remember to bring flowers to her grave. Nothing more. So I try to honor that.

 

[ERD50]

Yet I do believe that if our sole purpose is to propagate the species and nothing more that is sad. Than our existence on earth, colonizing this third rock from the sun isn't really much more than the bugs in our backyard.

Still nothing "wrong" with that view, just a choice on how to look at things.

And just to take it a little step further, let's consider the two views and our unknowns:

It seems that for you, you will be 'sad' if it turns out there is no after-life. But I won't be sad, as I see reason to celebrate life either way - there's really no conflict. And since we both see reasons to do good, then we live our lives much the same, so I see no 'downside' to my view.

I think he only visited her gravsite maybe once since then. Not out of selfishness, but to him I think his way of thinking is, "she's gone, what real difference does it make?

"

I've never visited my Dad's grave site, or any of my relatives (unless a group of us went), even though it is just 20 minutes from me. It just isn't something that 'resonates' with me. It's just some stone box to me. But I think of him probably every day. People just have different ways of dealing with these things.

Since your Mother made the request, I can see the feeling of need to honor that. That's different I think.

-ERD50

 

[easysurfer]

And just to take it a little step further, let's consider the two views and our unknowns:

It seems that for you, you will be 'sad' if it turns out there is no after-life. But I won't be sad, as I see reason to celebrate life either way - there's really no conflict. And since we both see reasons to do good, then we live our lives much the same, so I see no 'downside' to my view.

"

I've never visited my Dad's grave site, or any of my relatives (unless a group of us went), even though it is just 20 minutes from me. It just isn't something that 'resonates' with me. It's just some stone box to me. But I think of him probably every day. People just have different ways of dealing with these things.

Since your Mother made the request, I can see the feeling of need to honor that. That's different I think.

-ERD50

BTW...Spock is my favorite ST character. In that series, the two extremes of feeling and trying to be totally logical, void of feeling were Bones and Spock. The current Tsunami in Japan, Bone would say all the tragedy, loss of life, families ripped apart. Spock would say, why take time to emote over such things. The probability of having the reactors stop leaking within a month are....

We all have our own world view of things...

 

[SecondCor521]

In the summer of 1997 my then wife was pregnant with our second child, a son. While on a family retreat in a nearby town, we went for a walk and chose his first name: Elijah.

As it turned out, Elijah died in utero about a month later and about a month before he was to have been born. We chose a plot in a cemetery in our hometown. His mother wanted to honor him by having a tree planted near his grave.

Unfortunately, the ideal location for this tree -- a few yards away -- was already occupied by a large rangy pine tree perhaps 15 feet tall. This large rangy pine stood within a yard of another very large pine tree. His mother lamented that his tree would end up planted in some other section of the cemetery.

We went to select and purchase the tree at a nearby nursery, and arranged to have it delivered to the cemetery, a process that for some reason or another would take a few days. At this point we still didn't know where we were going to have the tree planted.

In the meantime, we had the graveside service, which was videotaped, showing his mother and I, and our family and friends, with the two large pine trees in the background.

A day or two later, when the tree was to be delivered, his mother called the cemetery to arrange for its arrival, again lamenting that the spot she really wanted for the tree was already occupied.

At which point the cemetery employee informed her that the night before, there had been a tremendous windstorm that had swept through the cemetery, and that the large rangy pine tree had been completely uprooted and had completely disappeared. The other pine tree, a yard away, remained completely untouched.

The large rangy pine tree left a hole in the ground, which is where Elijah's tree was planted later that same day. We decided to have his grave marker inscribed with 2 Kings 2:11b, which seemed fitting.

2Cor521

 

[GregLee]

The large rangy pine tree left a hole in the ground, which is where Elijah's tree was planted later that same day. We decided to have his grave marker inscribed with 2 Kings 2:11b, which seemed fitting.

That's pretty darn heart-warming.

 

[Bestwifeever]

That's a beautiful story about the most painful of events, SecondCor. Thank you for sharing it. Who's to say what's "real" in terms of personal moments like these? There are no experts in matters of the heart and faith.