Advice Needed - Moving Elderly Parents

[Katsmeow]

taken care of or a place close enough for me to do it seems mandatory.

If I have to go there several times a week, it does not seem like a three hour round trip is going to work out very well.

Definitely something close to you. It will only become more difficult over the years so being close will be a big help.

I may be overestimating their capabilities, or underestimating the speed of decline. Parents have a way of hiding things, so I may not have a full picture. The advice about getting things moving soon makes a lot of sense.

The other thing is that change can come quickly. In early March of last year my mom was living on her own, driving, and about to turn 94. A week later she was in the hospital and then in rehab. She spent the next two months in hospital or rehab, was discharged briefly (no longer able to even be alone, let alone live alone) and then died at the end of May. The decline was shockingly quick.

As far as trying to rent them something, one stumbling block seems to be the need for a walk-in shower. That would seem to limit us to some sort of elderly-care rental place, no?

They probably don't need a walk in shower. My mom moved into an apartment with us shortly before her death. (We were in a short term rental in preparation to moving into a new house). It had a regular tub/shower. We bought a tub transfer bench. Basically one end of the bench is outside the tub and the other end is in the tub. You set on the bench and then slide over (while sitting) to the tub side and do the shower seated. You just have to have a set up where there is room for the tub transfer bench. In many ways it is better than a walk in shower as the person never has to stand at all.

 

[robnplunder]

Good luck and best wishes, joesxm3. You have tough job ahead of us.

 

[Texas Proud]

Do they have a walk in shower now?



We bought a chair so she could transfer into the shower... also had a helper that would shower her if needed...


https://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Tran...&s=gateway&sprefix=shower+cha,aps,172&sr=8-11

 

[joesxm3]

I had thought of the stair lift, but putting it in the existing house still has the problem of me being so far away. If I were to buy the house two lots down from mine that is a split level with four stairs, maybe that might be an option.

They have a walk in shower that they had built in the cedar closet off the kitchen. I have not looked at it to see if there is a seat in it or not. They only have one bathroom upstairs and it has a tub with no shower. This is a very old house.

I had not heard of the transfer bench. That sounds like it might be a good option. If I am understanding, they could sit down, then slide over and sit on the bench while taking a shower in the tub? I don't think my mother would be able to get down in the tub and then get up again. I know a woman that worked as a home health aide. I will ask her if she is familiar with that type of bench.

Getting back to thinking about the stair lift, that might be an option if I decide to have them move in with me.

 

[Bongleur]

I would not put any property purchased for them to live in in their name. This could create issues down the road if one or both need nursing home care and they own a home. Better to put it in your name so they can qualify for Medicaid with no hassles.

Good point, but there is still the 5 year lookback for asset shedding. Is there a way to shed the assets? The house is the most valuable asset, shed it now.


Maybe if the OP held the mortgage so parents are paying him, with a balloon so the parents are underwater pretty soon.


Or rent from him so the cash from the sale of the house quickly transfers to him at $2000 a month.


Or take a chance and gift all assets to the OP now & hope that Medicaid doesn't happen for 5 years.


Maybe create an A/B trust so the assets of the first to die (ie half of everything) are held in trust for the benefit of the survivor, IF that would stay shielded from Medicare asset counting. Dunno if that defeats the 5 year lookback. Need a lawyer for that question.

 

[Another Reader]

I had thought of the stair lift, but putting it in the existing house still has the problem of me being so far away. If I were to buy the house two lots down from mine that is a split level with four stairs, maybe that might be an option.

They have a walk in shower that they had built in the cedar closet off the kitchen. I have not looked at it to see if there is a seat in it or not. They only have one bathroom upstairs and it has a tub with no shower. This is a very old house.

I had not heard of the transfer bench. That sounds like it might be a good option. If I am understanding, they could sit down, then slide over and sit on the bench while taking a shower in the tub? I don't think my mother would be able to get down in the tub and then get up again. I know a woman that worked as a home health aide. I will ask her if she is familiar with that type of bench.

Getting back to thinking about the stair lift, that might be an option if I decide to have them move in with me.

The statistics say that this is not a long term issue. As previous posters have shown, one or both of them may decline quickly and pass. All of your solutions take time as well as money. Circumstances may be completely different by the time you close escrow or finish remodeling.

You need to look at solutions for a few months to a couple of years, likely with some provision for a longer stay for one parent. Some type of assisted living near you if possible is the best solution. In your shoes, I would start figuring out how much money they have in savings and their house and start looking for a one bedroom unit in the less expensive facilities. You cannot afford to have full time care for one or both at your house.

 

[imoldernu]

... be careful with the five year lookback... not any way of getting around it that I could see. It's a tough law, with very few loopholes.

 

[Katsmeow]

I had thought of the stair lift, but putting it in the existing house still has the problem of me being so far away. If I were to buy the house two lots down from mine that is a split level with four stairs, maybe that might be an option.

These are only good if used. My friend put one in when her mother moved into her but her mother often just doesn't use it. Recently when the mother was home alone she fell down the stairs (no injury but still scary -- she is mentally competent but decided she didn't need to use the lift since it is slow to move). Also you still have to maneuver at the top of the stairs so there is still a possibility of falling.

I had not heard of the transfer bench. That sounds like it might be a good option. If I am understanding, they could sit down, then slide over and sit on the bench while taking a shower in the tub? I don't think my mother would be able to get down in the tub and then get up again. I know a woman that worked as a home health aide. I will ask her if she is familiar with that type of bench.

Correct, they slide over. They don't ever get down in the tub itself. Any home health aide should be very familiar with it. It helps to get one of the handheld showers so that no standing is necessary in the shower.

Getting back to thinking about the stair lift, that might be an option if I decide to have them move in with me.

Maybe but...see above.

 

[Sarah S]

I am sorry. It is really difficult.

3 of my family had stairlifts. 2 worked out ok 1 wasn’t enough for the situation and the reason for it not working was they were both frail.

Having done the frail parents living an hour away I will say it isn’t going to work as their needs progress ( which I suspect will happen sooner rather than later )

No! Please! Don’t do a split level. Even IF they can manage four stairs having to manage them multiple times a day is going to drain their energy. At some point it will become impossible. I am disabled. Moving from a split level was the best thing I could have done.

They need one level living and if you are willing to supervise and help which it sounds like you are it needs to be near you. They sound perfect for assisted living but the finances are a problem. Care homes, subsidized housing elder services in your area are things to look at

Good luck. This is terribly hard I know

 

[nhcycling]

I’m sorry to hear about your difficult situation. Figure out their assets. And their house value. I wouldn’t move them at this time. If anything I’d stay with them. Assisted living is expensive and it seems they may not be able to afford it. But maybe senior housing could be an option. If their care needs change significantly they may qualify for services. Best of luck.

 

[MrsHaloFIRE]

I would avoid purchaaing any type of home for you or them. As others have said I foresee I fluid situation. And at home cargiving can be burdensome, isolating, all the terrible things you can imagine. I would investigate options at a Sr apartment, multilevel care place, similar. And zero stairs. Thresholds even become a problem. And no rugs!!! Whats the deal with the elderly stacking and overlapping rugs?!?!? Huge hazard.

 

[Walt34]

If someone has mentioned it my apologies, but have you talked with a local elder law attorney? They will be familiar with what is available locally and farther out, and what your state's Medicaid laws are.

Another option is contacting a geriatric care manager, who will also be familiar with options that are local to you.

 

[joesxm3]

Thanks for all the advice and empathy.

I really only got started thinking about doing this a day or so before I posted here. My parents have been surviving on their own pretty well (which my step-father helping my mother as she is getting feeble), but after the idea of moving to a one level apartment was mentioned several times I figured I had better start planning.

Logically I can see the warnings about things moving suddenly, but it is hard to shift gears.

In the step-father's mind, the main issue is not having to do the snow, lawn and other house maintenance activities. He may be masking his decline, but he still seems to get around, although he is afraid to drive anywhere but close to home.

The fact that he is not as feeble as my mother complicates things. If it were just her, I would either take her into my home or move her to the appropriate assisted care situation. But having to treat them as a unit means that he is probably right that he could live in a smaller flat unit for a few years, but the question is whether he can continue to give the proper care to my mother (not really a question of if but when it breaks down).

I think he will be resistant to an assisted care situation and last night they showed signs of wanting to look for a place closer to where they are now rather than moving close to me. I think it is driven by his wanting to be in an area where he thinks he can still drive, but that will be another issue to deal with, no doubt.

I had a pen pal a while ago that took care of her mother all by herself (having moved in with the mother) and she was stuck 100% of the time for five or six years, so I know how hard that can be. I also had an aunt who tried to care for her husband with dementia way too long and it nearly killed her.

The posts have driven home the point that I need to engage some elder-care support resources to help me process information more efficiently. I will try to make contact with them and to find an elder-care attorney for an advisory meeting this week.

One thing I wonder about is whether some of the replies regarding how behind the curve I am might be overestimating the danger since they have not seen my parents. I don't want to drive myself into a frenzy based on that (and possibly alienate my parents to the idea of moving) based on that. On the other hand, they might be right and I get a sudden surprise.

Well, thanks for all the help. I appreciate it.

 

[Katsmeow]

One thing I wonder about is whether some of the replies regarding how behind the curve I am might be overestimating the danger since they have not seen my parents. I don't want to drive myself into a frenzy based on that (and possibly alienate my parents to the idea of moving) based on that. On the other hand, they might be right and I get a sudden surprise.

It can definitely rock along for awhile, it is just that once they get in the 90 or so age things can change on a dime. If they move that possiblity has to be considered. Let me put it this way. DH and I moved last year. He was 70 and I was 64. Theoretically we don't have to worry too much now as to how things will be when things change in our late 80s or late 90s. We could easily live here 20 years before we have to worry about that. (That said -- we did worry about and chose a house that will work when we get to that point).

But, if we had been buying a house when I was 84 and DH was 90 then it wouldn't make sense to buy one that we might have to sell in a short period
of time if there was a sudden decline. In that situation I would want to buy a house then that would work later.

Not a week before my mom went into the hospital and never really recovered she was looking forward to continuing to live on her own and had many things planned. But, then one little thing after another happened and it just snowballed very quickly.

 

[joesxm3]

Good point about the market-timing risk involved with buying a house for the parents. I suppose I could plan to make it a rental property and add a bit more real estate exposure to my portfolio.

However, I am totally out of touch with the real estate market in my area and I generally frown on making investments or large purchases when I am totally ignorant of the topic.

 

[joesxm3]

Well, I figured that since you all have been so helpful, I would give a brief progress report so you can feel that your typing was not wasted.

I decided that task #1 is to get a durable power of attorney and health care proxy signed. Luckily the parents seem to be amenable to doing that. Although I can probably get some boiler-plate forms on the Internet, I think I will make have the elder-law attorney do this once I find one and meet with them. Since it seems like an easy set of forms, I hope it will not cost too much.

I am working to talk my parents into us "working together" from now on to do the bills and plan to dig out and organize all the important documents that would be needed for Medicaid etc.

I am starting to look for an elder attorney to have an initial meeting with.

I found one rather large practice that seems to specialize in elder law and estate planning. When I called they told me that the initial meeting would get me an hour and would cost $450. Supposedly the $450 can be applied to any services I purchase within 30 days of the meeting. The receptionist would not give me any idea of their billing rate, so I put off making an appointment. I have my eye on a couple smaller firms and hope to meet with one soon.

The house two lots down from me turned out to have two eight-step staircases, so it is not an option. I am also leaning towards taking the advice of not buying something.

The parents think that they are able to live in a one-level apartment by themselves. I think they may be able to do that for a while if I start to come over once or twice a week to help them or if I get someone to come in for some light cleaning.

I started to look for one-level "senior" independent living rentals. I saw one that looks promising, but it is still about a 50 minute drive for me. My step-father would be happier since it is still in the area he is familiar with. It is in a 27 unit complex run by a husband-wife builder team. It has a walk-in shower and snow removal. However, I am just starting the search and hope to find something similar closer to me.

Anyway, I wanted to let you know that I am starting to move in a positive direction.

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[imnontrad]

I just finished going through all this with my mother. The problem with almost every currently built house is not only the stairs but the width of doors and bathrooms. They may need a walker or other aides which makes it difficult in most bathrooms and hallways. The walker really limited where my mother could be in her own house. The last few months she was in her house, she could not even navigate the 3" threshold into the house.
Another factor is isolation. If your parents become virtually housebound, they will also become socially isolated.
One place my parents lived for a while was a community with everything from independent living to nursing home. Residents lived in the section best suited for their needs. Although my parents had an independent living apartment, they had weekly cleaning, an option for group meals, and an call button to summon help if needed. They paid $1,500/month, including utilities (about 10 years ago). This place also had a fund so if any resident ran out of money, the fund paid for their care and they did not have to leave.
You may want to contact an elder care attorney. The attorney can educate you about Medicare and Medicaid and what to do to structure their finances. In addition, if either parent was a military veteran, they may be able for the VA "Aide and Attendance" payment to help pay for care.

In addition,

 

[zippy2020]

When you talk to the eldercare attorney, ask him to thoroughly explain to you, IF it is allowed in your state, how to split assets when one spouse becomes disabled and requires facility care. If this is permitted, it will greatly help the other spouse to not be financially bankrupted.

This is not something I'm familiar with personally; but a good friend did this when her husband suffered a sudden and complete disability, forcing him to go into Skilled Care. Make sure you take notes and fully understand all the "ins and outs" of your parents' legal and financial situation in regards to both Medicare and Medicaid.

Another item to put on your "to do" list - not a first tier item, but definitely second tier - investigate the convalescent facilities in your area. Many states publish their safety and inspection ratings on the web. Our state rates convalescent and nursing facilities, and even includes turnover ratios. Find out which facilities are rated well, and visit at least two.

It is not at all uncommon to need facility care suddenly, for a limited time, and it is best not to be caught flat-footed when the situation arises. If, in the course of your research, you talk to people who work in the industry, be sure to "pick their brains" and find out what/where/who THEY would want for themselves.

Best of luck to you going forward.