How to avoid "hoppy" beers (2nd attempt)

[ERD50]

OK, but I am not looking for a list of brands, more which styles are bitter/hoppy by design aside from IPA - so I can avoid them. Most of the places I go have local brews on tap, not the national brands - those aren't of interest to me.

.....

Just some examples that come to mind.

I don't think there is a definitive answer. There were some posts of styles that generally are less 'hoppy', and that can help in general (Gumby's list looks pretty safe and covers a nice range of styles), but three issues with that:

1) Not every brewer out there is brewing to BJCP or traditional guidelines, so their beer might not match a style name that closely.

2) The beer might not even reference a traditional style.

3) As you already know, there is no one way to describe 'hoppy'. A 'hoppy' beer might have enough malt and/or sweetness and/or body and probably other things (even the yeast and fining and storage techniques - most of which are not published) to bring them to a level that you are fine with. Or a beer with less hops, might present them in away you don't like.

Using the barleywine as an example. Many barleywines would not be considered 'hoppy' by most people. But some brewers make the hops stand out (sometimes called a 'West-Coast Barleywine). A style name isn't going to help you w/o knowing more about what the brewer was shooting for. But a good bartender or retailer should be able to match you with the traditional English style barleywines.

It's a little like trying to choose a car, and you want a bunch of specific features, but you only get three criteria to evaluate. You might eliminate a bunch of cars that don't meet those criteria. But three things won't tell you how it feels to drive that car, you need a test drive (taste).

You know you don't like IPAs. OK, don't order them. Try some from those lists, and ask at a good bar/retailer. Restaurants are normally not very informed, but there are exceptions.

I'm curious if you like a more mild APA - Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is widely available, and IMO, 'nicely' hopped. Not overly-anything, much tamer than the IPAs out there. If that is 'yeeech' to you, it would tell me a lot about just how much you dislike that hop flavor.

I can't drink Hefe's - I'm super sensitive to the phenols (clove-like, antiseptic taste) that the yeast throws, tastes like medicine to me, I can't even choke down more than 4 oz. Many of the Belgians have those characteristics, and it's pretty much a toss up if I will like them or not. It's tough for anyone else to describe them reliably, I have to taste them to find out (beer geeks can give me an idea if they are 'clovey' or not, and that helps, but not always). You might be the same with hops.


-ERD50

 

[springnr]

ESB might work, balanced bitter, my local guy only brews once a year.

Bitch Creek Extra Special Brown is tasty

Brown ales? like Newcastle

Extra Special / Strong Bitter (ESB) | BeerAdvocate

 

[audreyh1]

I was hesitant to mention brown ales, because some US ones can be a bit hoppy.

But Newcastle Brown Ale is probably worth trying to see how you like it. It's pretty smooth.

 

[HFWR]

How to avoid "hoppy" beers (2nd attempt)

Just give up and order a diet Coke instead?



This all sounds so complicated to me! Good luck and I think you are finding some better answers than mine.

Ha, but funny you should choose Diet Coke. Since my trigyclycerides are high, which runs in the family, so to speak, I have mostly stopped drinking soda.. Tried diet sodas, and don't like the aftertaste...

My choice in summer beer is, drum roll please, Bud Light. No worries about flavor there!

I like "hoppy" beers, and, well, beer in general, but anything "heavy" requires me to limit the amount to a pint or two, or else I'll feel crappy the rest of the evening.

A corollary to this: I've never really thought that beer or wine "pairs" well with food. Plus, drinking alcohol with a meal tends to give me indigestion, as if slowing digestion to a crawl.

As I always say, "Never eat on an empty stomach"...


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[Midpack]

Thanks for the suggestions, many I can use. But it looks like sometimes I'm still simply going to have to use my smartphone to look up info before ordering where there's no one knowledgeable to ask. Of course at some restaurants and stores (not brewpubs), people who claim to be knowledgeable, turn out to be otherwise. I just hate having a beer I paid for sitting in front of me, and hating every swallow, or just leaving it.

It's not like wine or liquor brands, where some are better than others, but I rarely get one that's outright awful. With beer, awful is very possible, without any cost correlation (IOW some expensive ones taste horrible to me).

Oh well, first world problems to be sure, no biggie.

 

[target2019]

Knowledge is a continuum.

 

[ERhoosier]

Here are the style guideline descriptions for this year's GABF competition. It's a 49-page pdf file, and covers every style to be judged.

Every style has all its salient characteristics described, including bitterness.

For example:


http://www.brewersassociation.org/w...brewers-association-beer-style-guidelines.pdf

Forty-nine pages I'm looking to quench my thirst not cram for a mid-term exam. I'll need to down a six-pack of PBR Light just to avoid dying of dehydration studying up on what "real" beer I should order

Seriously, though- Thanks for the link!

 

[FUEGO]

I usually make sure any beer I order ends with the word "light" and I'm never disappointed with an overly bitter or hoppy beer.

 

[GalaxyBoy]

Hehe. I'm a homebrewer and an enginerd (not an uncommon combination). I met an engineer who was a certified judge and he told me he thought the BJCP exam was at least as hard as the PE exam!

As has been noted above, bitterness is measured in IBUs and the amount of malt and sugars in the brew before fermentation is measured by the Original Gravity (OG), defined as the ratio of the density of the unfermented wort to the density of water. This can be shortened to "gravity units" by dropping the 1 that is always to the left of the decimal, and multiplying the values to the right by 1000. So, if a beer has an OG of 1.050, it is said to have 50 gravity units.

What's the point? You can figure the BU/GU (boo-goo) ratio of the beer, which is somewhat of an indicator of how bitter it will seem. A Russian Imperial Stout will have more IBUs than a typical IPA, but will be perceived as much less bitter. Just like adding sugar to your coffee, it is the balance.

NO way will you ever get this from a waiter, even in the geekiest of beer bars. But going back to your smart phone, you might be able to tease the information out of the brewer's web site. Or not. [edit: And it will often be in units of degrees Plato instead of the unitless ratio to the density of water.] And you'll need to order another round before you find all the data, maybe. But if you know what beers you like you might be able to figure this for those brews, see if there's a pattern, and choose new beers you might like based on the data.

(I warned you I'm an enginerd. I actually love doing this stuff.)

Or, my favorite method is just to try all the different beers I can get my hands on. But, I pretty much like all beers except the american industrial lagers that don't have much taste to them. Especially - but not exclusively - the uber-hoppy ones.

 

[ERD50]

GalaxyBoy, lots of good info there, but the problem with your following statement (bold mine) is:

...
What's the point? You can figure the BU/GU (boo-goo) ratio of the beer, which is somewhat of an indicator of how bitter it will seem. A Russian Imperial Stout will have more IBUs than a typical IPA, but will be perceived as much less bitter. Just like adding sugar to your coffee, it is the balance. .... .

Yep, "somewhat" being key. IBUs are a measure of the alpha acids that the hops add to the beer. As hops are added later in the boil, or after the boil, they release relatively few of their alpha acids. Isomerization of the hops peaks at about 60-90 minutes of boil time, dropping on either side of that time.

I could brew a very lightly hopped beer, and then add a ton of hops post boil, and produce a beer that most people would describe as very, very 'hoppy', and still keep the measured IBUs on the low end of the scale.

I don't think a single number can capture the complexity that is hops. As I said before, yeast variety and post fermentation processes (filtering, fining, storage, etc) can affect the perceived 'hopiness' of a finished beer. Oh, and serving temperature (cold kills the malt taste, so the bitterness is amplified in relative terms) and carbonation levels as well.

-ERD50

 

[38Chevy454]

My DW does not like real hoppy beers either. I do like them. So usually she will order a lager, wheat beer, pilsner, bock, brown ale, or stout. If one of those is too much hoppiness for her, I suffer through and drink it for her! Generally she will ask the bartender or server if she is not familiar with the choices.

Funny thing is I search out pale ales and IPAs. Also like red ales. I think Belgian style is awful and about the only beer I won't drink.

 

[jIMOh]

Yes, the ideal solution would be to buy a case of each. Try a bottle, and send me the 23 left from those you don't like. Simple and efficient!

Not so fast, I want at least 6 of those bottles...

There are exceptions to the IBU... however I have found if I stay under 40 IBU when picking I usually get something less bitter I like

Another possibility is to balance the hooppy beer with tangy or spicy food. I have had more than one salad dressing made with hoppy beer, and I also like hoppy beer with spicy food to balance my pallette.

 

[jIMOh]

Ask your knowledgeable bartender! Tell him what beers you DO like, and ask him to recommend something. My local pub will put a bit of something new in a glass for me to try it first.


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LOL
I have not found a bartender yet which can explain the difference between an APA and an American IPA

 

[jIMOh]

Thanks for the suggestions, many I can use. But it looks like sometimes I'm still simply going to have to use my smartphone to look up info before ordering where there's no one knowledgeable to ask. Of course at some restaurants and stores (not brewpubs), people who claim to be knowledgeable, turn out to be otherwise. I just hate having a beer I paid for sitting in front of me, and hating every swallow, or just leaving it.

It's not like wine or liquor brands, where some are better than others, but I rarely get one that's outright awful. With beer, awful is very possible, without any cost correlation (IOW some expensive ones taste horrible to me).

Oh well, first world problems to be sure, no biggie.

There is an app called untappd which helps me

 

[jIMOh]

I don't think there is a definitive answer. There were some posts of styles that generally are less 'hoppy', and that can help in general (Gumby's list looks pretty safe and covers a nice range of styles), but three issues with that:

1) Not every brewer out there is brewing to BJCP or traditional guidelines, so their beer might not match a style name that closely.

2) The beer might not even reference a traditional style.

3) As you already know, there is no one way to describe 'hoppy'. A 'hoppy' beer might have enough malt and/or sweetness and/or body and probably other things (even the yeast and fining and storage techniques - most of which are not published) to bring them to a level that you are fine with. Or a beer with less hops, might present them in away you don't like.

Using the barleywine as an example. Many barleywines would not be considered 'hoppy' by most people. But some brewers make the hops stand out (sometimes called a 'West-Coast Barleywine). A style name isn't going to help you w/o knowing more about what the brewer was shooting for. But a good bartender or retailer should be able to match you with the traditional English style barleywines.

It's a little like trying to choose a car, and you want a bunch of specific features, but you only get three criteria to evaluate. You might eliminate a bunch of cars that don't meet those criteria. But three things won't tell you how it feels to drive that car, you need a test drive (taste).

You know you don't like IPAs. OK, don't order them. Try some from those lists, and ask at a good bar/retailer. Restaurants are normally not very informed, but there are exceptions.

I'm curious if you like a more mild APA - Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is widely available, and IMO, 'nicely' hopped. Not overly-anything, much tamer than the IPAs out there. If that is 'yeeech' to you, it would tell me a lot about just how much you dislike that hop flavor.

I can't drink Hefe's - I'm super sensitive to the phenols (clove-like, antiseptic taste) that the yeast throws, tastes like medicine to me, I can't even choke down more than 4 oz. Many of the Belgians have those characteristics, and it's pretty much a toss up if I will like them or not. It's tough for anyone else to describe them reliably, I have to taste them to find out (beer geeks can give me an idea if they are 'clovey' or not, and that helps, but not always). You might be the same with hops.


-ERD50

Bells two hearted (to me) is a great example of an APA however I was told last night that it is considered an IPA and not APA.

Hopslam (by Bells) is also a great seasonal APA which feels like eating a bowl of fruit (I love fruity hops)

 

[DayDreaming]

Around here, most brewpubs and bars that have a lot of craft brews on tap will gladly pour you a small sample before you commit to a full pint. And many of these places can also sell you a growler of beer (1/2 - 1 gallon screw top bottle filled from the tap) if you'd like to take some home with you.

At some bars, I suppose you might get funny looks if you asked for a sample first, but it never hurts to ask

 

[ERD50]

LOL
I have not found a bartender yet which can explain the difference between an APA and an American IPA

Depends on the place. If you want to learn, and get great beer served in the right glassware (probably more tradition than anything, but some will insist it affects the flavor - the wine geeks are like that) and at the right temperature (very important), you have to go to places that are serious about their beer.

They aren't all that hard to find these days, but you have to seek them out.

OTOH, I've sat at a table at a bar, asked for their beer list, and have had the server tell me, 'we have just about everything, so just tell me what you want'. Right. So after a few go-arounds, she says "OK, we have Miller, Miller lite, Bud &Bud lite, Coors lite and Keystone". I guess that's 'everything'.

"I'll just have water then, thanks".

I should have left her a copy of the BJCP guidelines as a 'tip'.

-ERD50

 

[Midpack]

What's the point? You can figure the BU/GU (boo-goo) ratio of the beer, which is somewhat of an indicator of how bitter it will seem. A Russian Imperial Stout will have more IBUs than a typical IPA, but will be perceived as much less bitter. Just like adding sugar to your coffee, it is the balance.

Someone alluded to that before (probably braumeister, the pdf was great!) and I will bet that'll get me closer than anything I've tried before, thanks! I will still have to use my smartphone, but it beats the bad advice I sometimes get in bars & restaurants. Every server/shopkeeper says they know, so do, some don't, not always obvious.

I haven't had problems in any brewpubs, it's old school bars, restaurants and even stores that can be hit or miss. My favorite local brewpub always shoves a sample in front of me even when I ask how bitter/hoppy a new style offering is - they'd rather have me taste, so again brewpubs are not a problem. And again, I am not so much looking for specific brand styles, 'I want to learn how to fish, not be given a fish.'

[EDIT to add BU:GU chart!!!]

And then this, one step closer to a relative bitterness holy grail? http://www.madalchemist.com/chart_bitterness_corrected.html

 

[audreyh1]

And again, I am not so much looking for specific brand styles, 'I want to learn how to fish, not be given a fish.'

I think the problem is that there may be styles of beer, but when it comes down to it, it's pretty much "anything goes" with US brewers and their broad interpretations of any given named style. I think you're going to have to sample and use your iPhone to research or not take a chance on a beer you haven't tried before.

 

[kombat]

A big beer with tons of malt can handle a lot of IBUs just to balance it out. That's why some IPAs seem far more bitter than others. The ones that are more pleasing are made with a bigger malt "backbone" to balance the ridiculous load of hop bitterness. The aggressively bitter ones lack that level of malt.

You can judge the level of malt (approximately) by another number frequently shown on the beer list: the original gravity (OG). This may be expressed as actual specific gravity (1.065 or the like) or in degrees Plato (16.25 for example). The higher the gravity, the more malt was used in the recipe.

This isn't quite the way it works. OG is more an indicator of alcohol level, rather than the "maltiness" of a beer. While you're correct that a higher OG means more malt was used to brew the beer, that doesn't necessarily mean the beer has more sweetness (malty backbone) to be balanced out by bitterness. Without getting too technical, the amount of malt presence that persists to the final product is more a function of the temperature at which the beer was mashed (soaking the grains) than strictly how much actual malt was used.

You can have a high-ABV beer (i.e., it has a high OG) made with lots of malt, but if it was mashed at a lower temperature, then the resulting beer will be quite dry, and will not need much bitterness to balance it out. Conversely, you could brew a low-ABV beer with relatively less malt, but mash at higher temperatures, producing less-fermentable sugars that the yeast will not eat, and thus will persist to the final beer, manifesting as sweetness or "maltiness," that would require more hop bitterness to achieve the same balanced flavour profile.

Also, "Imperial" just means high-alcohol (typically 8+%), and has nothing to do with bitterness.

 

[GalaxyBoy]

We homebrewers need to be careful not to lose the average beer lover who doesn't fiddle with all these numbers like we do. I still think the best approach is to do as much field research as possible.

 

[ERD50]

... And again, I am not so much looking for specific brand styles, 'I want to learn how to fish, not be given a fish.'

[EDIT to add BU:GU chart!!!]

And then this, one step closer to a relative bitterness holy grail?

Nah, I don't think so. I doubt that chart will be anything more than a general guideline. I see lots of exceptions to what I think some one would consider a 'too hoppy' beer to be, and vice-versa, relative to its placement on that chart.

For example, they list "Dry Stout" as second , right after Imperial IPA? Guinness is a Dry Stout, and I don't think most beer drinkers would describe it as a 'hoppy' beer. And you said earlier " I've had many Porters and Stouts I like (Guinness, though light for a stout)". It may have a relatively high alpha acid content (IBUs) relative to the gravity, so that's why it is there on the chart, but those are bittering hops, not 'forward' hops, and probably muted by the roasty bitterness of the roasted barley (which tastes pretty much like charcoal if you chew a few grains).

Like I've been saying, there just isn't any standard number or descriptor for perceived 'hoppiness', which is really what you are talking about - not an alpha acid number, not a ratio, but really how 'forward' the hops present themselves in that particular beer. Beyond a general guide, you need to try them or learn to trust someone.

Like I explained earlier with my aversion to phenols. I can't count on a a label to tell me if the phenols will be too much for me or not. Some styles (German Hefe's) will very likely be too much (like you know an Imperial IPA will be too hoppy for you), and some I can count on to be no problem at all.But then you get into some middle ground styles, and I have to try them (or trust someone who knows what I'm describing, which probably means tasting a 'too much' and 'OK' beer side by side with me to calibrate their palette to mine.

You are looking for a simple solution to a complex problem (perceived taste). The guides will get you part way there, that's all.

-ERD50