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Old 07-05-2020, 04:05 PM   #181
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Just came across this thread. Love seeing and reading about the cars. We currently have:
2019 X5 i4.0
2017 Lexus RX350
2010 Lexus HS 250h

The RX 350 is on a lease (our first one) and is up in November and is my wife's. She is currently eyeing the Telsa Y. After reading RetiredAt38's story above, I think I will gently nudge her that way. Our next step may be to test drive one if we can.

The X5 is my first BMW and I really enjoy it. I kinda wish I would've splurged for the V8, mostly for the sound of the engine. We kept the HS 250 for our kids to drive.
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Old 07-05-2020, 04:36 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by kevdude View Post
The RX 350 is on a lease (our first one) and is up in November and is my wife's. She is currently eyeing the Telsa Y. After reading RetiredAt38's story above, I think I will gently nudge her that way. Our next step may be to test drive one if we can.
Maybe someday I'll test-drive a Tesla. Too bad they're not sold in my state. The closest showroom is a 5 hour drive away. I'd consider a truck someday if they'd make something a lot smaller than the behemoth that is the Cybertruck. I drive a 2010 regular-cab 2wd GMC canyon (because it's a 5-speed stick) but I do not want anything larger than what I have now. In fact, I'd prefer something smaller.
I'd even take a Chevy Montana or Tornado with a manual transmission if they sold them in the US.
I would consider a newer small electric or ICE truck if somebody would make one. If it were ICE I'd want it with a clutch, though.
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Old 07-05-2020, 05:16 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by kevdude View Post
Just came across this thread. Love seeing and reading about the cars. We currently have:
2019 X5 i4.0
2017 Lexus RX350
2010 Lexus HS 250h

The RX 350 is on a lease (our first one) and is up in November and is my wife's. She is currently eyeing the Telsa Y. After reading RetiredAt38's story above, I think I will gently nudge her that way. Our next step may be to test drive one if we can.

The X5 is my first BMW and I really enjoy it. I kinda wish I would've splurged for the V8, mostly for the sound of the engine. We kept the HS 250 for our kids to drive.
Do not drive drive a Tesla unless you are willing to change your expectations of driving. I posted in this thread May 11 about replacing a pickup with something smaller that had legs. I took delivery of a performance Model Y last Monday. I didn't need the performance model but I'm sure glad I bought it! I had to pass someone on a two lane highway today and I'm still smiling.

RetiredAt38 really understated what the vehicle does to your mind and expectations about driving. In a few hundred miles I don't know what to say about other vehicles. DW calls it a space ship, it's so much more fun to drive. I used autodrive for the first time and was shocked at what it could do. I saw scenery I had never seen before because I was too busy driving.[emoji13]

Don't drive unless you're prepared to purchase one.
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Old 07-06-2020, 01:33 PM   #184
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Maybe someday I'll test-drive a Tesla. Too bad they're not sold in my state. The closest showroom is a 5 hour drive away.
We bought our first Tesla in 2018 without ever having driven, ridden in (or even sat in) a Tesla of any model. We knew we would like it but we were totally unprepared for how much more we liked it than any other car we had ever experienced. And it was the affordable Model 3! Neither one of us has ever been blown away so much by a new car.

We learned that all the repetitive complaints we had read about on the Internet were basically fake. For example, the lack of a speedometer behind the steering wheel. What I learned was it's actually better to NOT have it there! All Tesla's have adjustable steering columns and I could finally adjust the steering wheel right where it felt best rather than the one position that allowed me to read the speedometer! And I could see the large Tesla speedometer just as easily by looking at the 10 o-clock position of the steering wheel. It did NOT require me to take my eyes off the road anymore than the traditional location does.

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I'd consider a truck someday if they'd make something a lot smaller than the behemoth that is the Cybertruck.
It's true! The Cybertruck is huge! Especially the size of the 6 person crew cabin they all have. But we are already accustomed to driving our F-150 4x4 with SuperCab and 6.5 foot bed and they have almost identical dimensions on the outside (in terms of length, height and width) and the bed is the same 6.5' in length. There are a lot of larger pick-ups out there.

The differences are that the cabin is much bigger than a SuperCab, it's like a small room and will seat six large men comfortably! And the Cybertruck has the adjustable air suspension so it's a lot easier for people to get in and out. But it goes into "high" mode when you need it and has an incredible 16" of ground clearance which is great for fording rivers or flood waters or simply driving over things that weren't meant to be driven over. But then it lowers to a civilized height so your date can climb in/out easily or so you can load heavy things without strain.

And that's one reason why it's said to drive like a sports car (it lowers like a sports car for high speeds and cornering). This also increases it's efficiency. The raising/lowering is accomplished by an on-board compressor and air tank connected to the suspension. The cool thing is Tesla provides an air hose that allows the user to access this air supply for airing up tires after off-roading, filling river toys or air mattresses or running pneumatic tools. Amazingly, even the $39,995 base model (RWD) Cybertruck comes with the air suspension.

But, yeah, if a regular F-150 with a 6.5 foot bed is too big, then the Cybertruck probably will be too. I have one on order and can't wait for it to enter production next year! They are going to sell a million of these! The best feature is the super tough and rust-proof exoskeleton (the body [I]is[I] the frame). Nobody has ever built a mass market vehicle out of such an advanced material before - cold rolled (hardened) 300 series stainless steel - the same material SpaceX is using to build their interplanetary transport system with (Starship). It's rust-proof, extremely dent resistant and will even stop common handgun bullets that go right through regular trucks. I hope I never need to test that feature out!
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Old 07-06-2020, 02:01 PM   #185
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This truck is pretty cool and I like it better than Tesla's. Supercar fast with good range and towing capacity:
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Old 07-06-2020, 02:06 PM   #186
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I tried. DW took me into the Acura dealership a few years ago with the intention of looking at Acura, then Lexus. Money in our pockets to spend, spend, spend.

Alas, I liked the cars and the new car smell in the showroom and demo units was great. But we left. It just did not do anything for me. We left Acura and that was it. Did not even bother going to Lexus. Happy with my old Solara convertible.
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Old 07-06-2020, 05:56 PM   #187
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This truck is pretty cool and I like it better than Tesla's. Supercar fast with good range and towing capacity:
Yeah, the Rivian is pretty cool with it's quad motors (but I think you have to buy the $$$$ one to get that). The specs are pretty hard to come by. What excludes it for me is it's not a real pick-up with only a 4-foot bed. I really need a 6 1/2 foot bed on a truck.

Also, they say it starts at $59,000 but that version only goes 230 miles on a charge. The "good" version (with 400+ miles range) is expected to cost over $80,000! The highest spec Cybertruck is only $79,995 and it will go well over 500 miles! The entry level version (still with fully adjustable air suspension) at only $30,995 will go over 250 miles! Much, much better value.

If the Rivian was the only electric pick-up available, I would probably replace my F-150 with it but the Cybertruck, with it's superior specs and much lower cost is really a no brainer. The bullet-proof glass and body is just a freebie!
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Old 07-07-2020, 07:22 PM   #188
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Correction to my previous post (as it's beyond the editing window):

The Tesla Cybertruck starts at $39,995, not $30,999. Just a brain fart!
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Old 07-07-2020, 07:42 PM   #189
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Correction to my previous post (as it's beyond the editing window):

The Tesla Cybertruck starts at $39,995, not $30,999. Just a brain fart!
Since you are talking about a Tesla/EV maybe a "synapses failure" is a better description/explanation than a brain fart....
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Old 07-07-2020, 07:52 PM   #190
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Since you are talking about a Tesla/EV maybe a "synapses failure" is a better description/explanation than a brain fart....
Funny! On the other hand, Tesla's do come with "fart mode".
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Old 07-07-2020, 07:59 PM   #191
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All this talk about electric trucks, features, and pricing is just a big bag of wind until they are in the showrooms.
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Old 07-07-2020, 09:51 PM   #192
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All this talk about electric trucks, features, and pricing is just a big bag of wind until they are in the showrooms.
That may be true of the Rivian since they have no production history to judge from. But I disagree when it comes to the Cybertruck because Tesla has an established history of releasing vehicles with better specs than claimed at the reveal.

My wife ordered her Model 3 sight unseen and when we finally went to pick it up it more than 2 years later it literally blew us both away with how much better it was than we thought. The wait was worth it! So we don't buy our vehicles from showrooms anymore, we just order them online and they call us when they're ready.
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Old 07-08-2020, 08:46 AM   #193
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If the Rivian was the only electric pick-up available, I would probably replace my F-150 with it but the Cybertruck, with it's superior specs and much lower cost is really a no brainer. The bullet-proof glass and body is just a freebie!
Ah, but the Tesla truck does not go 0-60 in 2.8 sec. I was not aware the Tesla body is bullet proof, thought it was just the glass. Seems it would be pretty darn heavy to make it fully bullet proof.
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Old 07-08-2020, 08:57 AM   #194
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Ah, but the Tesla truck does not go 0-60 in 2.8 sec. I was not aware the Tesla body is bullet proof, thought it was just the glass. Seems it would be pretty darn heavy to make it fully bullet proof.
The tri-motor is listed as 0-60mph in 2.9 seconds. The skin is 3mm 301 stainless, and claims to be able to stop a standard 9mm rounds. Not sure what that means for me as a consumer, I seldom take target practice on my vehicle. Less parking lot dings?


The*Tesla*Cybertruck's*skin will be made of the same stainless steel that is used by sister company SpaceX for its coming Starship spacecraft. That means 301 stainless steel and, in the Cybertruck, 3mm thickness. Tesla claims this makes it bulletproof to 9mm rounds but does not mention any armor rating certification

https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesl...ss-steel-body/
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Old 07-08-2020, 10:03 AM   #195
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Ah, but the Tesla truck does not go 0-60 in 2.8 sec. I was not aware the Tesla body is bullet proof, thought it was just the glass. Seems it would be pretty darn heavy to make it fully bullet proof.
The cold-rolled 30X Stainless Steel actually makes it a lot lighter than building it out of the traditional mild steel with small additions of high-strength steel in critical areas.

This kind of stainless steel has been cold-rolled under extreme pressure to make it tougher. It basically work hardens the metal similar to the way forging realigns the grains of the metal for extra strength. The end result is metal so strong it can't be run through traditional stamping presses (it would break the press). It's not heavy, just tough. An errant shopping cart at the grocery store was blown by strong winds into my brother's Dodge Ram HD 2500 and it left an ugly dent the size of a baseball where the body curves around to the under-fairing that later rusted and got even uglier. Shopping carts will just bounce off the super-tough body of the Cybertruck. At worst it might leave a scratch in the SS but you can buff that right out since there is no fragile or thin paint to deal with.

That's why the exterior exoskeleton is so futuristic looking - the look was not dictated by a style designer like traditional trucks with their tacked on painted body panels. It was necessitated by the structural engineering of the chassis (considering that the visible "body" is actually the truck chassis)! That's right, you are looking at the rust-proof frame of the truck. That's how they get a load capacity of 3500# and a towing capacity over 14,000# on the tri-motor version.

But, no, the chassis/body not heavy, it's lighter than a traditional truck which has a heavy mild steel ladder frame and then heavy body panels tacked onto the bed and cab for aerodynamics. The Cybertruck will be more rigid which will make it tow a lot better. The flexi-flyer characteristics of traditional ladder frames is what encourages instability when towing a heavy load. The Cybertruck won't need sway dampers to tow heavy loads.

Personally, I'm not buying a truck for the fastest 0-60 mph time but, if that's your thing, you will like the fact that Tesla ALWAYS delivers a faster vehicle than the original reveal specs indicate. It's just the way they roll. In fact, my car has been updated with free over-the-air updates that have given it more HP and faster 0-60 mph times than when it was new! So was my wifes Model 3! So, yeah, the tri-motor will almost certainly do 2.8 second 0-60 mph (faster than many Supercars!).
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Old 07-08-2020, 10:13 AM   #196
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The*Tesla*Cybertruck's*skin will be made of the same stainless steel that is used by sister company SpaceX for its coming Starship spacecraft. That means 301 stainless steel and, in the Cybertruck, 3mm thickness. Tesla claims this makes it bulletproof to 9mm rounds but does not mention any armor rating certification

https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesl...ss-steel-body/
The MotorTrend article is very poorly done. The "expert" they quote speaks of stainless steel as if there is only one type:

"When asked if Armormax had tested stainless steel for use as armor plating, Burton said, "We test all materials. It's not the most effective, so we don't pursue that.""

You can bet your property tax money he didn't test cold-rolled 30x series stainless steel and for sure not the particular variety SpaceX and Tesla use. They custom order it from their metal foundry, it's their own custom alloy (but it's the cold-rolling that makes it's so extra tough). That's how Tesla's lead designer was able to give the door panel a full body whack with a 4 foot dead-blow sledgehammer without leaving so much as a dent! The stuff is incredibly tough, hard and dent-resistant.
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Old 07-08-2020, 10:58 AM   #197
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You can bet your property tax money he didn't test cold-rolled 30x series stainless steel and for sure not the particular variety SpaceX and Tesla use. They custom order it from their metal foundry, it's their own custom alloy (but it's the cold-rolling that makes it's so extra tough). That's how Tesla's lead designer was able to give the door panel a full body whack with a 4 foot dead-blow sledgehammer without leaving so much as a dent! The stuff is incredibly tough, hard and dent-resistant.
Part of my engineering degree was a minor in metallurgy, both ferrous and non-ferrous. There are many types of stainless and some of them do rust! It all depends on the nickel content in the alloy and some other physical and chemical characteristics. As an example, if you weld certain SS alloys, and don't want it to start rusting at the weld joint, it must be passivated using sulfuric acid. I really don't believe Tesla "created" their own SS alloy as that's not their business and if they did, please supply me/us the ASTM certification document and material specs, or at least a link to that information.

Since they have no factory for the truck fabrication and assembly, and have not made any production units, I can't believe many of your claims made on the physical attributes of the SS material until the truck is assembled. It's just hearsay.

Also, I worked for a rolling mill design and fabrication company (actually two of them) in my previous work life (Waterbury Farrel, T. Sendzimir), and if a material "work hardens", that may or may not be a good thing as it will be difficult to fabricate in a production setting. Most alloys are annealed after rolling/forming to reduce internal stresses and to aid in further processing of the sheet. I can't believe Tesla would use work hardened panels in the vehicle since assembly/fabrication would create some potential negative challenges. Someone has to cut this stuff and also drill holes for brackets, from it, etc. Building a vehicle is not like putting together a LEGO set!

I understand you are a Fanboy and that's all good, but understand that 1/2 or more of what you read on a FUTURE vehicle is pure marketing and may not be a reality. I mean, how else would Tesla be able to sell this stuff?
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Old 07-08-2020, 11:09 AM   #198
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All this talk about electric trucks, features, and pricing is just a big bag of wind until they are in the showrooms.
You won't have to wait long. Over the next 24 months 7 different companies will have them in their showrooms. Besides the Tesla truck, Rivian, GMC and Ford will have theirs.
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Old 07-08-2020, 12:01 PM   #199
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The tri-motor is listed as 0-60mph in 2.9 seconds. The skin is 3mm 301 stainless, and claims to be able to stop a standard 9mm rounds. Not sure what that means for me as a consumer, I seldom take target practice on my vehicle. Less parking lot dings?
0-60 in 2.9 is awesome, and on paper, it beats my Jeep by 1/10th sec. I wonder how many 0-60 and 1/4 mile passes it can make before needing a lengthy recharge? I know my gas mileage drops well into the single digits when I'm pushing it hard like that. But I can stop and refill in less than 5 mins and I'm good to go again.

Regarding their bullet proofing claim, I recently tested a 7.62x39 against a 1/4" (~6 mm) steel plate. At 10 feet, the very first shot went straight through it which kinda surprised me. I will look for a small plate of 3mm 301 stainless steel and will test it with various 9mm rounds. Inquiring minds want to know.
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Old 07-08-2020, 12:14 PM   #200
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Part of my engineering degree was a minor in metallurgy, both ferrous and non-ferrous. There are many types of stainless and some of them do rust! It all depends on the nickel content in the alloy and some other physical and chemical characteristics. As an example, if you weld certain SS alloys, and don't want it to start rusting at the weld joint, it must be passivated using sulfuric acid. I really don't believe Tesla "created" their own SS alloy as that's not their business and if they did, please supply me/us the ASTM certification document and material specs, or at least a link to that information.
Tesla didn't create their own stainless steel sheet product, SpaceX metallurgists working with their metal foundry did. It's a tweaking of a standard 301 ss. It's for the rockets they will use to carry out their Mars mission.

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Since they have no factory for the truck fabrication and assembly, and have not made any production units, I can't believe many of your claims made on the physical attributes of the SS material until the truck is assembled. It's just hearsay.
Fair enough. But I've learned to doubt Elon Musk at my own risk. I've made $1.8 million listening to him (and it would have been closer to $3.5 million if I hadn't doubted him initially). They have made two prototype Cybertrucks and one of them is touring the country as we speak - you can check it out yourself if you like. Musk told Jay Leno regular handgun rounds will not penetrate the steel or the glass and, while it might be heresy, I have zero reason to doubt the most important American industrialist of the 21st century.

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Also, I worked for a rolling mill design and fabrication company (actually two of them) in my previous work life (Waterbury Farrel, T. Sendzimir), and if a material "work hardens", that may or may not be a good thing as it will be difficult to fabricate in a production setting. Most alloys are annealed after rolling/forming to reduce internal stresses and to aid in further processing of the sheet. I can't believe Tesla would use work hardened panels in the vehicle since assembly/fabrication would create some potential negative challenges. Someone has to cut this stuff and also drill holes for brackets, from it, etc. Building a vehicle is not like putting together a LEGO set!
I can see you know your stuff! Yes, those are very real production challenges Tesla has to engineer around to use such a hard material. That explains the dystopian styling and lack of any compound curves. Tesla's forte is engineering design, between SpaceX and Tesla, they have some of the top engineering talent in the world. SpaceX and Tesla are two of the most desirable places to work as cited by graduates from the top engineering schools in the world. So they get a disproportionate amount of the talent.

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I understand you are a Fanboy and that's all good, but understand that 1/2 or more of what you read on a FUTURE vehicle is pure marketing and may not be a reality. I mean, how else would Tesla be able to sell this stuff?
Yes, it's marketing and there are no guarantees in life. But I know how Tesla brings new models to market and they don't release the specs until they have the core engineering/production techniques locked down and costed out. They have a history of releasing new models with slightly better specs than advertised two years before production. Every single new model they have ever released (and there have been 5) has been better than advertised.

As to being a "fanboy", yes I am, but it's not blind admiration, it's the direct result of using two Teslas as our daily drivers for over two years. I know a lot of Tesla owners and most of them are pragmatic, factual people who have just realized Tesla's are far better cars than anything else on the market. Invariably, those Tesla naysayers you see on the Internet? They have never even driven a Tesla.

In fact, every Tesla owner I've ever met gushes about the product they bought. That's rare.
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