Ronstar
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That's yet an extra software add-on cost if you want the feature that keeps driving!
Probably! He did say that they're coming out with new software to use the camera systems better.
Why not drive a Tesla?
- Thread starter gcgang
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Probably! He did say that they're coming out with new software to use the camera systems better.
Bestwifeever
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I would think the car would follow the navigation input rather than blindly go after the car in front of it--perhaps your friend's DW was coming up with an alternate theory to why she was late (that's it, it was the car! Took me right down the off ramp!)
. A friend once claimed to her DH that the damage to her car was caused by a rogue shopping cart in a grocery store parking lot that came flying out of nowhere at 25 miles an hour....
Ronstar
Moderator Emeritus
I would think the car would follow the navigation input rather than blindly go after the car in front of it--perhaps your friend's DW was coming up with an alternate theory to why she was late (that's it, it was the car! Took me right down the off ramp!)
I too would think that a navigation input would weigh in heavily enough to recognize the car ahead was exiting. But I've noticed that my GPS's take a long time to recognize the early stages of a ramp - probably still within the tolerances of the mapped navigation line. So maybe the software engineers err on the side of caution - just follow the car ahead of you when you start veering slightly from the navigation line.
His DW knows a Tesla guy who stops at McDonalds drive-up and drives to work eating his McDonalds while reading the paper.
RunningBum
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You are still using power with the electric, which reduces the range for that charge, and costs you something to recharge. Not as much as gas, of course, which is just like driving. Is it really much different from just driving a few extra miles?
You initially said
and I'm just pointing out that not only can a hybrid do this, but so can a gas car. It happens to be standard on the Tesla. I'm not sure remote start is standard on any gas car, but it is easy to add.
It's a lot like saying one of the things you'd love about an electric car is to have a navigation system, because it happens to be standard (I think) on the Tesla. But of course you can get it on most cars, or add a Garmin.
If it's not worth it to you, it's not worth it. Not sure why you even brought up that you'd love it in an expensive electric car when you won't even spend a few hundred to put it in your existing car.
meierlde
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Essentially remote start is standard on most cars with pushbutton start. As you have already got most of the cost sunk on the remote door lock and unlock and the pushbutton start, so that adding remote start is not very expensive. Note that the doors have to be locked to use it.
ERD50
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Really? The car isn't released yet, they haven't sold any.
I'm guessing you mean (you sure are lax with your language), they have accepted 400,000 fully refundable deposits of a mere $1,000.
And most of them are aware that the clock is ticking on the $7,500 subsidy. So putting down $1,000 is their bet that they might get in early enough to get the $7,500. And I bet the cancellations among those who are left w/o a subsidy will be a fairly high %. Laying down $1,000, fully refundable, on a +$35,000 car, when short term interest rates are this low isn't a big deal against a chance at $7,500. I don't have an MBA, and I don't go to Vegas, but that sounds like the kind of think an MBA or gambler should grasp.
You leave a lot of important details out. And they always seem to be the ones that don't help your case.
Well, there is more fodder among your posts for me, but I'm in the mood for Korean food and need to get ready for a night out. Don't worry, I'll be back
-ERD50
I don't need no stinking computer to do that. Today we were driving back from a guided hike we had done and I blindly followed the car in front off the wrong exit of a roundabout just a few miles from home
Texas Proud
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Different thinking for different people...
To run a gas engine to cool or heat a car is producing a lot more energy than needed to get the job done... a waste... and if you did that all the time then you are going to need to change the oil more often etc. etc.... think how many extra hours you would put on an engine over a year.... even if you only did it twice a day every day that is over 120 hours... now, if you drive 10,000 miles a year (I am around that) and avg 35 mph, then you are driving 285 hours... if you avg 25 mph, that is 400 hours... so a pretty big overhead on the engine... and I probably avg more than one trip a day.... so that 120 hours can become 200 hours.... I will admit that I would not have to do it all year, so I will back it down to 100 hours...
Also, from what I read, starting a car and just letting it run wears more than if you start and drive away.... so this is not just the cost of gas we are talking about...
The electric in only cooling... I would not care about the range as most of my driving is short trips... plus, you can cool it down while still plugged in before you leave the house....
Koolau
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I saw a show on JAY LENOS"s GARAGE in which he demonstrated one of the early electrics. IIRC Jay said they were very expensive compared to ICE cars - possibly because they were often designed for women (keep in mind things were different back then so don't kill the messenger.) The cars did not need to be cranked. They were outfitted (in Jay's example) with a flower vase inside. Maintenance was minimal. They had very limited range (as in not to get to w*rk or FOR w*rk - but to get to the bridge game or beauty parlor, etc.)
IIRC Jay said that at one time, cars were essentially 1/3 steam, 1/3 ICE and 1/3 electric. Obviously this sorted itself out around the economics and technical capabilities. NOW things have changed. The electric is a "practical" vehicle but its future is not certain nor is clear if it will win the game or remain a relatively small part of the overall mix. We don't even know if the electrical grid can adapt to a huge shift in energy source for transportation.
Still I suppose this is a great time to be alive - watching a potential quantum shift in not only technology but in attitude. I guess we will see how it plays out over the next 10 to 20 years or so. YMMV
Texas Proud
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Not sure about other areas of the country, but I would bet big money that here in Texas there is plenty of extra electricity production potential that goes unused at night... and that is when most people will charge their cars....
I can not find anything about the hourly production, so can only base this on my usage and common sense....
OK.. found something for Texas..... lots of capacity.... top is capacity and bottom is demand....
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midwestguy
Recycles dryer sheets
Erd50. I thought retired people were happier?Guess that not so true for you? Maybe I shouldn't retire this year as planned.
midwestguy
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Lighten up. You act like you shorted tesla. ?
ERD50
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Where do you get your info from? ICEs had a 90 year head start?
History of Hybrid Vehicles
Near 40 mile range in 1898. And nope, the Prius wasn't the first hybrid by a long shot. You can find a lot more info about electrics in the early 1900's, some has been posted already. The competed with, and lost out to the ICE, as did steam. And electrics had a head start!
from wiki:
First electric car built 1839, first ICE powered cart 1870. My math says electrics had a 31 year head start, you are about 121 years off!
As Texas Proud mentioned, infrastructure support isn't a problem for an EV fleet. Most people will charge at night, and the grid is 'idling' at that time. It could be a problem if lots of people wanted to charge at daytime on a peak A/C day, but night time has plenty of capability.
But it will take extra fuel to generate that electricity at night. It obviously won't come from solar, and hydro is being reserved at night to feed the daytime demand. Wind is stronger at night generally, so that can help a bit, but it isn't common to have an excess of wind power, so it will take more fuel. Which means a fleet of EVs would be mostly running on fossil fuel. And with a fleet, that demand would be pretty predictable, and most grids would rather keep their coal plants burning at a little higher rate than to keep their relatively expensive gas turbines running.
And yes, that means that an EV runs mostly on a combo of coal and natural gas. And though ICE automobile efficiency isn't great ( ~ 25%), EV efficiency doesn't look so good when you consider (rough numbers) ~ 40% efficiency at the power plant, 8% loss in transmission, 15% charging loss, and 10% motor loss. I think those are fairly generous, but .4⋅.92⋅.85⋅.9 ~28% overall efficiency, from fossil fuel to wheels. And even a little bit of coal mixed in with that will result in overall greater emissions from an EV than a decent efficiency ICE, and even worse compared to a high mpg hybrid.
-ERD50
ERD50
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I'm happy. I just like good solid info, not hype. I hope you are using good solid info to plan your retirement budget. If not, maybe you shouldn't retire this year?
Wrong again. Never bought the stock, never shorted it, never played an option on it.
Those sound like Ad Hominem attacks. You know what that means, right?
-ERD50
midwestguy
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Just wondering why you are so against the future?
ERD50
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Ummm, I presented what I believe to be facts. It has nothing to do with being "for" or "against" anything (well, I am 'for' the truth), past, present or future.
If you want to be taken seriously, address the issues I presented, if you think they are inaccurate. Show me where they are lacking.
-ERD50
ken830
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I see a lot of talk suggesting remote start on gasoline cars being equivalent in convenience to remote HVAC on electric cars (Tesla, specifically). I may have missed it, but did anyone point out the one major difference? You should absolutely never, ever remote-start your gasoline car in a closed garage.
And on a Tesla specifically: Not only can you manually control the temperature setting of the HVAC via your smartphone app, the car can optionally learn your schedule and automatically set HVAC to your desired temperature prior to your departure time so that the car is comfortable when you get in. Plus, during a firmware update last year, Tesla added a Cabin Overheat Protection feature, which will automatically prevent the cabin from overheating -- It's a safety-net feature that may prevent many of those tragic stories you read about where parents forget their kids in the car on a hot day. Although I think they should also do something similar to GMC's Acadia where it will detect the back door opening/shutting before the drive and will remind the driver to check the rear seat at the end of the drive.
And on a Tesla specifically: Not only can you manually control the temperature setting of the HVAC via your smartphone app, the car can optionally learn your schedule and automatically set HVAC to your desired temperature prior to your departure time so that the car is comfortable when you get in. Plus, during a firmware update last year, Tesla added a Cabin Overheat Protection feature, which will automatically prevent the cabin from overheating -- It's a safety-net feature that may prevent many of those tragic stories you read about where parents forget their kids in the car on a hot day. Although I think they should also do something similar to GMC's Acadia where it will detect the back door opening/shutting before the drive and will remind the driver to check the rear seat at the end of the drive.
ken830
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That was me. I only did that because another user (Texas Proud) challenged me! But in reality, this was a reasonable comparison for me personally, because my wife and I needed a larger car when we were expecting our first child back in 2012. A minivan or SUV was what we were looking at before deciding on a Model S. And to justify the extraordinary purchase cost, I did months of agonizing calculations based on many assumptions and guesswork of costs for the next decade. At the time, my most conservative estimates still projected the Model S to be the costlier option, but not by much. So, it was decided that spending more money on the car itself (considering the enhanced driving experience and luxury components) rather than the expendable fuel would be better use of money.
RunningBum
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Fair point, but you don't really need remote start very badly to cool (or warm) your car. I was assuming the car in question was sitting out in the elements.
RunningBum
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Sometimes when you feel victimized it's you, not the others. Pretty much every point you've been questioned on was for good cause. You are the king of the oversell and you don't even seem to realize it.
Let's go back to that claim about all the time you save because of the Tesla quick acceleration.
You must have this magical talent to be the first at every stop light and every on ramp. I can't usually do rabbit starts because, you know, other traffic.
ken830
Recycles dryer sheets
Thanks for finding this! Very interesting and informative. I always "knew" that peak loads occurred during the day and electric grids must be designed to handle the highest peak day of the year, but never bothered to look up actual numbers and see the difference from peak to trough. That's one summer day in Texas, so it's a good indication of how much unused grid capacity there is every night. Rough estimate from that graph is 10-20 gigawatts.
This simply shows that the capacity is there, but there's still a lot to talk about when it comes to the source of energy. A frank conversation about grid capacity and generation sources is important in general and especially important when talking about switching to electric cars. There's a lot of misconceptions and misleading statements floating around. Frankly, they all have some basis in facts, so it's important to take them seriously and to provide real, accountable data to dis-spell any misconceptions. It is true that electric cars are more "green" in some areas of the country and world relative to others.
One advantage for electric cars is that even after you buy it, they get effectively "cleaner" when the source of energy gets "cleaner". Internal combustion engines are already unbelievably inefficient and they get even less efficient as they age.
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Let's all keep in mind that it's a car, not a religion. Be nice to each other.
ken830
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Agreed. Even if we were talking about a religion, we should be nice to each other.
midwestguy
Recycles dryer sheets
There seems to be a lot of comments from people that have never driven and certainly owned one.
Is there anyone here that regrets buying a tesla due to range, inconvenience or other?
Is there anyone here that regrets buying a tesla due to range, inconvenience or other?
NW-Bound
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Am I the only one who does not care about any stinkin' car? It's just transportation.
And talk about "green", a while back I started a thread that described a car that was far greener than one with the silly "ludicrous" acceleration mode.
See: http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/car-to-solve-us-energy-problems-44457.html.
If "green" is what we want, then use tax money to subsidize smaller cars, not to support drag racing out in the streets.
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