Getting a neighbor to help pay for a replacement fence

[Drake3287]

Looking for some unofficial legal advise or words of wisdom! I live in a typical subdivision here in California and based on how our lots are staggered, our "Good Neighbor Fence" boarders 5 properties including myself.

We need to replace our entire fence because of age and luckily California has a law (section 841 of the Civil Code) that forces neighbors to pay the share of fence repair/replacement as long as I give 30 days notice to have the work done.

I'm working to get these 4 other property owners to buy into this replacement (the fence is falling down) before winter storms but one neighbor refuses to answer his door or letters sent in the mail regarding it.

Yesterday I sent another letter saying that I was officially enacting this California fence law and that he has 30 notice. This letter was sent both certified and first class which I hear is legally required by law. I'm guessing he won't sign for the certified letter though. Yes, he's a nut job.

Assuming he doesn't contact me, I assume I'll have to take this guy to Small Claims Court in order to collect. But I guess my questions are, what happens if I have him subpoenaed and he doesn't except it (even by a deputy) or refuses to show up in small claims court? The other question is if the judge agree's with my side (which he will based on everything I know about it) how do I force this guy to actually pay me?

Anyone ever had to deal with this type of thing?

 

[soupcxan]

how do I force this guy to actually pay me?

That's the sticky wicket right there. Assuming he totally ignores the court and you get a default judgement, looks like you could put a lien on his house, which might not pay you back until the house is sold.

https://oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/small

 

[Lakewood90712]

Ok say you replace the fence, try to collect 1/2 from the neighbor and end up in court. First, prove it is a party wall on the p/l , then prove that it needed to be replaced. I can think of a whole lot more things to torpedo your lawsuit.

So the neighbor is now ticked too, so he/she decides to counter in court, and does so in superior court, and includes a dubious claim of intentional inflection of emotional distress, say for 50k, you are no longer in small claims now you need an atty , and need to spend real money, and you may loose ! I have seen this tactic many times !

Before discarding my view, I was a city government official in CA for 13 years and saw exactly this kind of thing many times.

I have seen lawsuits over property line encroachment of a tree root ball by 3/4 of an inch. !!

If you want to replace the wall/fence and the neighbor doesn't want to share the cost , build a new one entirely on your side and move on. Unless you have C,C, and R's for this in your subdivision , you are opening up a can of worms.

Just my semi-informed opinion. I am not a CA lic Atty, but make money in retirement consulting with defense atty's on issues like this.

 

[yakers]

I'm in CA, had a neighbor on one side and the fence was going, probably their fence originally many, any years ago, based on the backside facing us. Did not have a contact for the owner, she was renting to another family member who did not respond to a note, letter or certified letter. So We just replaced it ourselves and ate the money, nice new fence good side facing us. Not worth forcing a neighbor to do anything they didn't want and I was the one on whose side it was falling. Was worth every penny to do it our way.

 

[pb4uski]

It sounds like the most practical thing to do is to proceed with the knowledge that you may need to eat that neighbor's share of the cost of the replacement fence. You can decide later how hard you want to chase them for reimbursement.

If you were able to get a judgement against him, I wonder if the result would be the judge might garnish his wages or seize his bank account or if your only remedy would be to place a lien on his home.

I guess what Lakewood said is possible but it seems unlikely that if he is unwilling to fess up for his share of the cost of the fence that he would ante up the money necessary to sue you and I doubt that any lawyer would take his case on contingency.

 

[Drake3287]

I think at this point it's more the principle then the money, I can eat the cost of his share of the fence but it's just the point that he won't even answer his front door or my letters. If he actually just told me he was sorry but couldn't afford it, I'd say thank you and be done with it.

As for the fence itself, it's the original Redwood Good Neighbor Fence that was installed in 1986 and is now worn, rotten and falling down. Plenty of pictures to support my case although age alone should be enough for any judge.

Another "what if" question is, if I decide to just pay for it myself, can he stop the process of the contractor doing the work altogether? Having to build a fence behind an existing fence would look ugly in this situation.

Why can't people just have common sense? It's like someone buying a car and never expecting to replace the tires. Crazy.

 

[Walt34]

Why can't people just have common sense?

Hey, be careful there! If too many people did that I likely wouldn't have had a job and wouldn't have been able to retire.

I know nothing of California law but just from what I learned about people in ~30 years in law enforcement I'd say you're on the verge of engaging in an exercise in futility and frustration.

 

[splitwdw]

I'm in CA, had a neighbor on one side and the fence was going, probably their fence originally many, any years ago, based on the backside facing us. Did not have a contact for the owner, she was renting to another family member who did not respond to a note, letter or certified letter. So We just replaced it ourselves and ate the money, nice new fence good side facing us. Not worth forcing a neighbor to do anything they didn't want and I was the one on whose side it was falling. Was worth every penny to do it our way.

In our area the good side of the fence has to face out and the back side is what the homeowner sees.

 

[pb4uski]

You could put the fence slightly inside your line and prepaint the side that faces him some really ugly color... I vote for hot pink. he may not see it right away but eventually the 1986 fence will fall and then he'll get to enjoy it.

 

[MooreBonds]

A little perspective...

Why can't people just have common sense? It's like [-]someone[/-] your neighbor buying a car and [-]never[/-] expecting you to replace the tires. Crazy.

I've never heard of such a 'fence replacement law'. There's a chance your neighbor has never heard of it, either.

If a simple statement of "sorry, I don't have the money" would instantly make you rein in the attack dogs and forget about it, it sounds kind of odd that you have this completely opposite hell-bent vendetta for them, just on the basis of them not replying to your previous letter and apparently not answering the door when you knocked.

 

[Lakewood90712]

I think at this point it's more the principle then the money snip.................Why can't people just have common sense? snip.....

"People" and "common sense" usually don't belong in the same sentence

" The Principle ?" life is very short I sure with I didn't waste so much of my life on "being right" over the years. You get one life, and only so many good years before deterioration of body and mind creeps in. No Do overs . Think about it , and enjoy the weekend.

 

[Texas Proud]

If you are getting the vast majority of the linear feet paid for already, just eat the cost... no principal is worth getting in a fight with a neighbor for small dollars..

As the previous poster who was in city gvmt said, you could be poking the bear and be the one that gets maimed...

 

[eytonxav]

Make sure you have pictures and an independent viewpoint that supports the fence needing replacement. I went thru this in an HOA neighborhood several years ago with a neighbor on one side of me, after our fence blew down. He refused to pay, and the HOA wouldn't take action to force him although it was in the CCRs. I ended up eating it instead of going the small claims court route.

 

[stepford]

I went through something like this 10 or so years ago - falling down 25 year old fence shared with 4 neighbors. 3 were varying levels of cooperative and one a bit grumbly. All eventually recognized that I was doing them a favor by handling the logistics and eventually paid me their share (1/2 total cost x shared fence length / total fence length). In my case total cost was under $2K so each neighbor's share was only a few 100 bucks.

As I said, they were all eventually cooperative, but had they not been I would have eaten the cost. A few hundred bucks is not worth having a permanent feud with a next door neighbor.

That said, if I were the OP before giving up I'd determine when the neighbor comes and goes and just arrange to step outside and say "hi neighbor" the next time they're there. They may just be hoping you go away, but be willing to listen if you physically corner them like that. Worth a try (assuming they don't have a concealed carry permit).

 

[target2019]

Whose fence is it really?
Here, if I put up a fence the good side must face out. I actually had to ask the association president to flip his new fence sections as they were out of code. But, he said, the installers told my wife it would look better this way.

In CA I think things are somewhat different. Here, if you put up a fence it is yours, and you pay for it.

 

[mickeyd]

Not in Cali but...my fence is on my property. I asked my 2 neighbors if they wished to pay for 1/2 of their part. I had the fence replaced, paid for it, and advised each what their part was. I had a check from each neighbor the next day.

No need for a special law. Easy peesy.

 

[youbet]

Not in Cali but...my fence is on my property. I asked my 2 neighbors if they wished to pay for 1/2 of their part. I had the fence replaced, paid for it, and advised each what their part was. I had a check from each neighbor the next day.

No need for a special law. Easy peesy.

The idea of shared fence ownership as described by OP is strange, at least to me living in Illinois. Here, you put a fence on your own property, pay for it 100% and do with it as you wish.

With your fence mickeyd, if the neighbors wanted to paint their side a different color, hang planters on it or whatever, is it their right to do so because they paid for that part? If a child was hurt climbing over the fence, would the parents sue you as total owner or would your neighbors be involved since they are part owners?

Very confusing......

 

[sheehs1]

Drake3287 Not sure what is available thru your city or county but I had and have a similar situation. I'm not in an HOA neighborhood but am in a neighborhood governed by building and improvement codes, etc. with my city. 24ish years ago my neighbors built a small portion of a fence to backstop a flower garden, the next neighbors finished it all around the property line. Rather than build my fence on the mutual side, I mimicked the pattern (although taller) so it would look somewhat uniform. A hurricane and a tree later, his part of the fence is leaning into my property and looks unsightly. Thank goodness it is in the far corner. Yes I have planted a couple of trees over there.

The owner lives in Texas and I am here in Va. He rents the house. I called the city and the building inspector said he could cite him, which he did. Nothing has been accomplished but that is not my point. At least it is documented. If you have some entity that can come and inspect it from the city or county you would least have some documentation for justification, which might protect you later, If you think that might be a concern. Whatever the entity, get them to inspect it, look at it and perhaps cite "all the owners" including yourself.

I gave up…and am contemplating tying into my fence and running a new one down the mutual side …except….when his falls down…it will damage mine. So, I might try one more time to get this neighbor to fix his fence. I also might pay to have someone "fix his as it might be cheaper. Problem is "it is HIS fence" and would require me to be on HIS property with him living in another state.

 

[youbet]

I might try one more time to get this neighbor to fix his fence. I also might pay to have someone "fix his as it might be cheaper. Problem is "it is HIS fence" and would require me to be on HIS property with him living in another state.

Just ask him if it's OK if you have his fence professionally repaired at your own expense. He'll likely agree.

Or, tell him you're having a fence installed on your side of the property line and does he wish for his own fence, in need of repair, to be removed at the same time yours is installed.

If your request for him to repair his fence resulted in him just removing it, would that be OK? Or, do you want a fence there and after his is gone you'd put one of your own up?

 

[grasshopper]

If you think this is weird move to an open range area and try to fence the cattle out.

 

[sheehs1]

Just ask him if it's OK if you have his fence professionally repaired at your own expense. He'll likely agree.

Or, tell him you're having a fence installed on your side of the property line and does he wish for his own fence, in need of repair, to be removed at the same time yours is installed.

If your request for him to repair his fence resulted in him just removing it, would that be OK? Or, do you want a fence there and after his is gone you'd put one of your own up?

you bet…I want a fence there and his is not so different from mine that I want him to tear his down. Besides his goes arounds 3 side of his property. So does mine. We share the mutual side.

You suggestion about asking him if I can have it repaired at my expense is a good one. I think I still have his address and can mail something to him and hope for a call from him. I don't have a phone number.

The other option is for me to ask the current renters who the property manager is and see if I can get in touch that way.
Thanks! Now I have this on my "to do" list!

 

[Drake3287]

If it was just an average type neighbor I could probably just pay for it and move on. Although I've never spoken to this neighbor, (he lives in the property behind me on a different street) he's the one in a million bad neighbor that has ruined the neighborhood. Luckily I'm on the next street over.

There's not enough space on this forum to describe it all. I live in a very nice Bay Area neighborhood with semi expensive homes, how this guy fell into this home I'll never know.

I sort of feel that if I've made a good faith attempt to talk to this guy he should at least tell me no to my face or at least email me.

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[splitwdw]

If you think this is weird move to an open range area and try to fence the cattle out.

Now that I wouldn't think weird. Don't live in an area that is designated "open range" but do understand the meaning.
There's a borough near my sister that won't let you put up a fence that blocks the sun or wind, how's that for weird.

 

[grasshopper]

Now that I wouldn't think weird. Don't live in an area that is designated "open range" but do understand the meaning.
There's a borough near my sister that won't let you put up a fence that blocks the sun or wind, how's that for weird.

If, like most Arizona residents, you DO NOT live in a
No-Fence District, it is your responsibility to fence out
unwanted livestock using a “Lawful Fence,” as defined
in ARS 3-1426. This is especially important in areas on
your property that contain gardens or ornamental plants
that livestock love to munch. A lawful fence 1) has posts
spaced no more than 30 feet apart; 2) has at least four
strands of barbed wire; and 3) spaces the wires such
that they are 18”, 28”, 38” and 50” above the ground,
respectively.
• If you have constructed a lawful fence and livestock
break through that fence to cause damage to your
property, you are entitled to file with either your justice
of the peace or your superior court to recover damages
(see contact info below).
• Remember, even as a small-acreage landowner, if you
own livestock that does damage to someone else’s
property and they either live in a No-Fence District
OR have built and maintained a legal fence, you will
be guilty of a class 2 misdemeanor and are liable for
damages.
• If you are involved in an automobile accident with
livestock, contact your county’s Clerk of the Board of
Supervisors office to find out if the particular location is
a No-Fence District to see if you have any legal recourse.

 

[ivinsfan]

If it was just an average type neighbor I could probably just pay for it and move on. Although I've never spoken to this neighbor, (he lives in the property behind me on a different street) he's the one in a million bad neighbor that has ruined the neighborhood. Luckily I'm on the next street over.

There's not enough space on this forum to describe it all. I live in a very nice Bay Area neighborhood with semi expensive homes, how this guy fell into this home I'll never know.

I sort of feel that if I've made a good faith attempt to talk to this guy he should at least tell me no to my face or at least email me.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Most one-in-a-million bad neighbors think they are perfectly fine and the "other guy" is the problem. Given this info if it was me, I'd call it a day and just pay it myself..
My niece once lived in an apartment building where a guy tried to run over his SO in the middle of an argument and in the process scraped the side of my niece's car. She proceeded to go to their apartment pound on the door and tell him he needed to make things right pronto. I remember trying to tell her what the H%ll were you thinking, he knows where you live and he's a powder keg! Just had a case here in MN with a first degree murder conviction over a " neighborly feud" that had been going on for years.