Self-Sufficiency

[Moscyn]

We live in the city and in a building with concierge service and most probably not move away from the city. So, in terms of self-sufficiency, I can prepare our meals, replace light bulbs, clean our home and that's about it for self- sufficiency.

 

[Htown Harry]

An orchard and maybe some berry vines sounds like the just right amount of food-growing self-sufficiency to this fruit- and pecan-loving city boy.

There are low labor and crop-care requirements outside of the harvest season (I assume). My "plan" also the ability to barter or sell the surplus down at the farmer's market for high-labor food.

Would I have to develop Brewer's taste for squirrel to be truly successful, though?

 

[ArkTinkerer]

Lots of fruit trees need to be sprayed--even if you just use an organic oil to suffocate the pests. But that is a once or twice a season thing.

Squirrel isn't bad. Not as good as rabbit though!

 

[brewer12345]

Lots of fruit trees need to be sprayed--even if you just use an organic oil to suffocate the pests. But that is a once or twice a season thing.

Squirrel isn't bad. Not as good as rabbit though!

Both are good. Squirrel pot pie vs. rabbit with bacon, mushrooms, shallots & ale. Lapin au cidre vs. southern fried squirrel.

What you have to do with fruit trees depends on climate. Where I live, apples grow like weeds, as do plums. Back in the East, if you don't spray you are just feeding the pests.

 

[imoldernu]

50+ posts in 2 days... Just imagine the input when the "Preppers" and "Guns" threads begin...

 

[ArkTinkerer]

50+ posts in 2 days... Just imagine the input when the "Preppers" and "Guns" threads begin...

"
Trying not to go there! Like I said, this is a polite, erudite forum and I like it that way! Even most "anti-gun" types are willing to accept hunting. That said, these days you can't say much of anything without offending someone on the internet. They will search you out to disagree with you!

Always did wonder a bit about gardening--its all about species-ism, chemical and biological warfare against entire species of plants and insects, raising others just to harvest their sex organs, genetic breeding and inbreeding to enhance certain traits. Could be really offensive depending on how you think about it!

 

[prose3589]

My SO is a farmer and raises cattle. Since we have been together I have become more self sufficient. We butcher our meat, have a large garden and I have started making my own bread and rolls. I started down this path because I enjoy it, but lately has become a big savings, what with the price of beef and produce.

Of course I am still an avid bargain shopper for sport!


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

 

[AnIntentionalRoad]

LCountz,

No offense here. Very sedate polite forum and I like it this way!

I just see so many people miss out because they get caught up in the commercialization of so many good things in life. Gardening is sticking seeds in the ground. Make it complicated and expensive if you want but don't condemn it later because of what it has become. Biking can be enjoyed on a cheap $20 flea market buy or even a freebie on craigslist or freecycle. Or it can be a $2000+ custom mountain bike!

I have old machine tools I play with (and plan to play with a lot more!). They are worth more as scrap metal than what I paid for them. My machinist friend said I should have bought new $5000+ tools instead. He misses the point that fixing the tools is part of the fun. I will understand the tools better, and their limitations, after going over every inch of them.
Is it profitable? Maybe. I could make a lot more selling my time. But that would be real work instead of tinkering...

You should read some of Ference Mate's writing. His books are what started me down the ER path but he is a real believer in modern self sufficient lifestyles, for instance building your own house (with your own hands), etc. Try "A Real Life."

I am not self sufficient by any means. But I do strive to do things for myself when it is something I am remotely interested in. I am more interested in gaining skills and knowledge than saving money on services, though that is always a nice benefit when it works out.

One of the overriding themes in my life has been that I am always working on building some new skill. Right now it is baking and boat repair...

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I initially got interested in ER when I started reading a homestead magazine and realized the people in the magazine were living on next to nothing and living healthier lives, getting more family time, fresh air, sunshine and exercise than we were. We're not into the hard work part, but then I found resources on sustainable living and simple living and we were able to slash our annual expenditures that way.

I like to hunt. Instead of animals I just hunt for loss leaders, art work at estate sales, bargains and ideas on how to live better but for less money than we used to spend. If you are doing what you enjoy, whether it is installing solar panels or scoring free play tickets or making your own bread, then it isn't work to you.

 

[Amethyst]

Hunting is not allowed in residential areas, period. If it were, I have several acquaintances who would gladly take out the 8-point buck and his enormous family with their bows.

Some years ago, the county had "managed deer hunts," and then a rifle bullet was found in the exterior wall of a day-care center a mile from the hunt site (which seems, to me, like very poor hunt planning). That was the end of the county-sponsored hunts.

Amethyst

Amethyst,

Do they not have urban bow hunts in your area? While bow hunting takes some time to learn, many hunters will take care of your deer problem for free. They might even share the harvest with you.

ArkTinkerer

 

[ggbutcher]

You get a sense of pragmatic vs idealistic self-sufficiency when you spend a little time in Alaska. There, businesses have to make sure their employees get a sufficient break during good hunting weather to 'take their meat' for the year. And some places just don't have 'the grid'.

Now, one might assert there are more 'civilized' places to live. But there are compelling reasons to live most anywhere, I think. You just have to trade them with the detrimental reasons not to in your priorities...

 

[audreyh1]

Lost my interest in self-sufficiency a couple of decades ago. Had fun for 5 years living in a self-contained motorhome that gave us total independence in terms of living location, but that's a different kind of thing.

 

[Gunny]

Interesting thread. Most of the "self sufficient" practices mentioned in the OP and subsequent posts happen to be hobbies of mine. I have spent a lot of cash on my "toys" over the years, but they are now paid for. I now enjoy the returns on those initial "investments" persueing my hoppies of hunting, fishing, camping, home and vehicle maintanence, and gardening. These activities now cost me just what I spend on licenses, ammo, hooks, baits, and seeds. I enjoy these activities and these will serve me well during my hopefully long retirement and frugal retirement.

 

[nuke_diver]

Oh I missed this thread earlier. Good stuff.

Right now I find it hard to be sel sufficient because w**k takes up too much time. It isn't worth my while to spend several hours over several weekends to save a few hundred dollars. That time is worth more to me than the money is (don't worry I'm still saving lots). We live in the burbs so raising chickens etc would be frown on and may even not be legal in our town (IDK). I will do small projects and all the yard work now and once I FIRE I will probably branch out and do more food growing and cooking (if only to see if I can cook as well as my wife). That is if I have time from riding, reading and music which are the first things on my lists of hobbies to expand while FIRE'd

As for the Zombie Apocalypse... well my knees are shot so I might not even be able to out run a zombie. Yes I am the guy you want with you if a bear is chasing you

 

[robnplunder]

The local grocery stores have plenty of free samples practically every day. So "foraging" in the stores can be quite productive.

... not to mention that it can be a well balanced diet.

I used to garden for vegetables. I may restart it again at ER. I'd love to hunt & fish for my own food but am too skittish to skin, and clean dead animals.

 

[brewer12345]

... not to mention that it can be a well balanced diet.

I used to garden for vegetables. I may restart it again at ER. I'd love to hunt & fish for my own food but am too skittish to skin, and clean dead animals.

Its about on par with cutting up a whole supermarket chicken into serving pieces. No biggie.

 

[CCdaCE]

Self sufficiency. At first, I thought it was just a rural thing. I've never really thought about it until the last year or so. So maybe it's stating the obvious to most of you.

But, it comes down to skill set and how many people you know and do they need your skills or services, or what can you trade with them. It seems to work better in rural areas, and you keep the tax man or whoever else out of the loop. Trading labor for a side of beef. Or engine repair for cash, or whatever.

But, along the lines of harvest season, if you grow tomatoes and are giving them away like everyone else, you're just not that special.

Now if I could just find a particular skill set that I'm good at and a person that has something I want in trade, I'd have a richer life or be wealthier or whatever.

Unfortunately, I don't have enough hussle or rainmaking ambition to sell my skills to the group of people I'm aquainted with and elect to collect a paycheck where a market has already been established. Cash jobs or barter seems to be a much better deal, though, when it's worked out in the past.

Taken Phone Speech [HD] - YouTube

Seems like a legit deal!

-CC

 

[ArkTinkerer]

Its not really a rural thing. Though being out in the sticks does protect you from the city and neighbors telling you what you can and can't do!

For me its a matter of picking up skills and maybe tools (I'm bad about that!) to be able to do things for myself. As an example, I've picked up a number of used welders cheap over the years -- now trying to trim that particular tool count down! Do I do enough welding to justify these? Heck no. Is it cost effective? Maybe break even at best but probably not. But now, when I need to weld/solder/braze something, I can do it NOW. I can do it the way I want. I can do something just for the fun of it. My two boys learned to run the welders, gas, electric (stick and wire). One built a forge. The other has gotten lots of use of that forge casting aluminum. I don't think either will be professionals at this--aspirations are for engineering degrees. But we have all had fun, made useful things, repaired things that would have gone in the trash.

All this in the center of a city with three universities. Not rural at all...

 

[ShortInSeattle]

I really admire the homesteading type of self-sufficiency, although I'm not currently pursuing it. Our little urban condo doesn't include a plot of land to grow veggies, although our HOA maintains a herb garden on the roof for common use. I've thought about getting on the waiting list for a local "P-Patch" but the sites downtown seem to be a magnet for criminals and the homeless, I don't want my garden fertilized with human waste.

My current version of self-sufficiency is more about flexibility and mobility. Developing diverse and marketable job skills, being very employable, having multiple sources of income, keeping fixed costs low, having savings, and being willing to relocate to pursue work (if needed) ...

But yeah, I'd love to have a garden plot.

 

[sengsational]

Reading "The Rational Optimist" I learned we're becoming more dependent, not self sufficient, and that's a good thing.

Your mention here is what got me to read this book, thanks for that!

This book changed the way I look at self-sufficiency. I went from "it's good" to "it's bad".

I like the IDEA of self sufficiency, but for the most part, it does not seem to make economic sense.

Ridley makes a convincing argument that the more we (as humans) specialize, the better the world (as a whole) gets. So yes, it does not make economic sense. There are many examples in history that show when specialization and trade increases, most everyone is better off. And there are examples where self-sufficiency increased (specialization and trade decreased) and human welfare suffered greatly.

Given all of that, if one derives any kind of joy from DIY, then by all means, it's a positive. In other words, a tiny bit of joy is worth paying $12 for a tomato.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Juliet Schor has used the term high tech self provisioning - using technology to help yourself become more self sufficient instead of hard labor. I view my solar lights, thermal cookers, Instant Pot, Kill a Watt and LED lights this way. They helped cut our electric bills so we do not have to earn as much to pay utility bills and are less dependent on the grid for power.

The next big thing looks like it will be 3D printers. I suspect those products alone are eventually going to be world economy changers.

I like getting gadgets off Amazon and always look for items that will save more money in the long run than they cost.

 

[bjorn2bwild]

When the trucks stop rolling, the philosophical elite will need to be content with dried pulp for breakfast.

 

[M Paquette]

When the trucks stop rolling, the philosophical elite will need to be content with dried pulp for breakfast.

Uh... If the trucks stop rolling, I suspect that there may be a few problems beyond that.

The planetary 'carrying capacity' for humanity without modern transport and similar powered agriculture (tractors and such) is at best 10% of the current population. I suppose that makes the other 90% of humanity a philosophical elite.

A delicious philosophical elite. Good with catsup...

 

[brewer12345]

Uh... If the trucks stop rolling, I suspect that there may be a few problems beyond that.

The planetary 'carrying capacity' for humanity without modern transport and similar powered agriculture (tractors and such) is at best 10% of the current population. I suppose that makes the other 90% of humanity a philosophical elite.

A delicious philosophical elite. Good with catsup...

I dunno. I was thinking barbecue sauce would be more appropriate with "long pig."

 

[bjorn2bwild]

Uh... If the trucks stop rolling, I suspect that there may be a few problems beyond that.

A playful exaggeration on my part in response to the idea of becoming ever more specialized and dependent on others.
Still, I think it is a useful exercise to ask oneself "how would I fare if the trucks did stop rolling".