Boosting Immunity

[isisdave]

+1 for medcram too -- in the last few days, there's been a review of use of BCG, and also "sauna therapy" which isn't really a thing, but an observation that alternately raising and sharply lowering body temperature seems to enhance immunity factors. Plus, Finland has a much lower death rate from covid-19 than even the other Nordic countries.

 

[tmm99]

At least anecdotally, elderberry syrup has been a remedy/preventative for seasonal flu for many years. Not aware of any scientific studies on it, but it's unlikely to do harm and might help.

That's what I thought too, and stocked up on the brand of the elderberry syrup that has gone through scientific studies, but I stopped taking it a few weeks ago after reading this warning.

https://terrywahls.com/coronavirus-what-you-can-do-to-reduce-your-risk-of-complications/

Elderberry syrup has been shown to be helpful against the influenza virus. However, for COVID-19 elderberry syrup may increase the risk of cytokine storm and more severe reaction. For that reason, I would NOT use elderberry syrup at this time.

Evidently a cytokine storm makes body's immune system to overreact and could cause acute respiratory distress syndrome. So to be on the safe side, I won't be taking elderberry syrup. I won't take Advil either. I won't take anything that's reported as potentially causing adverse effects for coronavirus.

I'm no expert, but this article (hopefully, this isn't behind the paywall...) makes me think that some of the cases we hear that someone all of a sudden deteriorates and cannot breathe, etc, may be caused by this storm...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/health/coronavirus-cytokine-storm-immune-system.html

 

[tmm99]

At least anecdotally, elderberry syrup has been a remedy/preventative for seasonal flu for many years. Not aware of any scientific studies on it, but it's unlikely to do harm and might help.

That's what I thought too, and stocked up on the elderberry syrup that has gone through scientific studies, but I stopped taking it a few weeks ago after reading this warning.

https://terrywahls.com/coronavirus-what-you-can-do-to-reduce-your-risk-of-complications/

Elderberry syrup has been shown to be helpful against the influenza virus. However, for COVID-19 elderberry syrup may increase the risk of cytokine storm and more severe reaction. For that reason, I would NOT use elderberry syrup at this time.

Evidently a cytokine storm makes body's immune system to overreact and could cause acute respiratory distress syndrome. So to be on the safe side, I stopped taking elderberry syrup. I won't take Advil either. I won't take anything that's reported to potentially cause adverse effects for coronavirus.

I'm no expert, but this article (hopefully, this isn't behind the paywall...) makes me think that some of the cases we hear that someone all of a sudden deteriorates and cannot breathe, etc, may be caused by this storm...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/health/coronavirus-cytokine-storm-immune-system.html

 

[meleana]

No.

 

[aiken]

I look forward to you providing a reference to any one of those studies. I would very much like to see a peer-reviewed scientific article that contains the words "immune system" and "boosted" in the same sentence.

You can't "boost" your immune system with diet or sleep any more than you can "boost" your car's performance by changing the oil or aligning the wheels. Those operations are necessary to maintain maximum possible performance, but you can't go above 100%. Very few people in western countries are deficient in any of the nutrients that you mentioned, and if you consume more of them you will either just pee them out, or poison yourself (e.g., with high doses of vitamin A).

Also, your statement that "[vitamin] D ... isn't really a vitamin but actually a hormone" invites the reply, "So what is the definition of a vitamin as opposed to a hormone"? The word "vitamin" is just a shorthand for "some specific molecule that your body needs". Vitamin D is a more complex molecule than Vitamin C, but that's about it. The whole concept of "vitamins" is an arbitrary construct anyway --- the idea became popular in the first quarter of the 20th century as certain aspects of nutrition science advanced and it just stuck for some reason, probably in part due to the efforts of the people who design breakfast cereal boxes.

They're out there. I'm not going to do your google search for you. If you have a closed mind, and aren't interested, please continue on your path.

 

[martyp]

I look forward to you providing a reference to any one of those studies. I would very much like to see a peer-reviewed scientific article that contains the words "immune system" and "boosted" in the same sentence.

You can't "boost" your immune system with diet or sleep any more than you can "boost" your car's performance by changing the oil or aligning the wheels. Those operations are necessary to maintain maximum possible performance, but you can't go above 100%. Very few people in western countries are deficient in any of the nutrients that you mentioned, and if you consume more of them you will either just pee them out, or poison yourself (e.g., with high doses of vitamin A).

This MedCram video talks about the advantages of sleep for better immunity

https://youtu.be/wlbM6VVkVZM

 

[FIREarly]

Is anybody doing anything different to boost their immunity to virus/colds, etc. For example, there are recommendations to take vitamin D and multi-vitamins, which I take daily anyway. I have also heard to take zinc, selenium and to increase vitamin C when feeling ill.

Liquid Elderberry from Costco (or anywhere else) and long walks with DW. We are blessed to live in a beautiful and growing neighborhood. We've seen it all multiple times now. Wonderful walks!

We want to get back to exercising with weights. All the gyms are closed
Some Crossfit boxes (gyms) are letting members sign-out their equipment to use at home and return it after COVID19. Another great community!

 

[Lawrencewendall]

Didn't read all the posts so this may be a dupe. Doctor talks about "boosting immunity:

[yt]hMopOpiNB1s[/yt]

 

[daylatedollarshort]

They're out there. I'm not going to do your google search for you. If you have a closed mind, and aren't interested, please continue on your path.

+1. Just typing in:
Pubmed boosting immunity

into Google gave me over 6 million search returns.

I went to a support group for people with a similar chronic disease diagnosis as me and some of my family members once. I brought with me a big bag filled with research on how gee actually most of our symptoms can be linked to nutritional deficiencies and some of the physical limitations helped with acupressure and yoga, and my own experience of getting almost back to normal. I was shocked at how many people would rather stay disabled and in wheel chairs rather than even try simple diet changes with mainstream food items that one could get at the grocery store, especially since there was good evidenced based research on the diet part. Maybe obscure, not well publicized research, but it was all out there on Pubmed. It was like they all had some weird kind of codependent relationship to the doctors who told them they had incurable conditions.

 

[sengsational]

Didn't read all the posts so this may be a dupe. Doctor talks about "boosting immunity:

This doctor rightly discounts the hucksters that are hocking miracle cures that "boost immunity", and says you don't really want to "boost immunity" (likens it to autoimmune disease, which is a stretch, imo). Then he jumps into saying that getting good sleep increases NK cells. Well, in common parlance, that's "boosting immunity"! He goes on to list a few other things we can do to improve the functionality of our bodies (but doesn't call it boosting immunity, of course).

He has an analogy about a construction site, which is probably reasonable, but he didn't carry it out far enough. He says just delivering building materials to a construction site doesn't get the job done quicker. True, oversupply of materials isn't going to improve the building UNLESS there is a deficiency. If everyone is standing around the job site, not doing anything because a precursor step is delayed due to lack of materials, then certainly you want to address that problem. That's the case for vitamin D: it's often in concentrations much less than optimal because we're not walking around without a shirt on the Savanah any more.

 

[sengsational]

Some good news, I think, for some people about immune response.

I listened to the most recent Peter Attia netcast last night and they agreed that there's no indication in the data that suggest people with HIV or people on immune suppressant drugs are making up a higher proportion of extreme Covid-19 cases. That might be bad news for people who want to "do something", and that something is "boosting immunity".

But my take-away is make sure you don't have any nutrient deficiencies so that the cellular mechanics can operate efficiently. Back to what your grandma told you: eat right and get enough sleep, and one thing she didn't have to worry about (because she was outside all day on the farm) have your vitamin D levels checked

 

[eytonxav]

Some good news, I think, for some people about immune response.

I listened to the most recent Peter Attia netcast last night and they agreed that there's no indication in the data that suggest people with HIV or people on immune suppressant drugs are making up a higher proportion of extreme Covid-19 cases. That might be bad news for people who want to "do something", and that something is "boosting immunity".

But my take-away is make sure you don't have any nutrient deficiencies so that the cellular mechanics can operate efficiently. Back to what your grandma told you: eat right and get enough sleep, and one thing she didn't have to worry about (because she was outside all day on the farm) have your vitamin D levels checked

I think the general idea is to be as healthy as one can be. If you have deficiencies that might impact your health, and it can be mitigated, I would do so. Whether you want to call that boosting immunity or something else does not really matter.

 

[dd564]

About 13 months ago I started walking more.
I walked well over 2,000 miles last year.
This year I am continuing my walking and I've added pushups.
I have a goal of 12,000 pushups this year.
Next year I'll add something else.

This has helped me stay in decent shape and probably helped me through my bout of it if that's what I had a couple weeks ago.

Change habits to make a large change in your lifestyle because you want to.
Don't do it for impending doom. By then it's too late.

It's like rushing out to buy toilet paper. Would be better to have purchased a couple extra rolls a year ago.

 

[tmm99]

Liquid Elderberry from Costco (or anywhere else) and long walks with DW. We are blessed to live in a beautiful and growing neighborhood. We've seen it all multiple times now. Wonderful walks!

We want to get back to exercising with weights. All the gyms are closed
Some Crossfit boxes (gyms) are letting members sign-out their equipment to use at home and return it after COVID19. Another great community!

https://integrativemedicine.arizona.edu/COVID19/FAQ.html

Elderberry:
Q: Why is elderberry considered safe for prevention but recommended to stop with symptoms or positive COVID-19 test results?

A: Elderberry extracts may help to prevent the early stage of corona virus infections, which includes COVID-19. Elderberry contains compounds which decrease the ability of viruses to infect cells. Elderberry is considered generally safe and in influenza B (cause of common cold), use of elderberry shortens the duration of symptoms. However, as a part of its immune supportive actions, elderberry increases immune cell release of tiny chemicals called cytokines. Specifically, elderberry increases the release of a cytokine called IL-1B which is a part of the inflammatory reaction to COVID-19 that can result in acute respiratory distress. For this reason, to minimize the possibility that elderberry could aggravate the inflammatory “cytokine storm” associated with the more severe COVID-19 infections, it is recommended to stop elderberry at the first signs of infection (fever, cough, sore throat) and/or if you test positive for the virus.

 

[sirsavesalot]

 

[I was misinformed]

Partial protective effect of TB vaccination?

The link below is really fascinating (and "not crazy" according
to at least one medical faculty member colleague here).
The idea is that folks who got the
old fashioned TB vaccine as infants have some limited
protection against covid19. You can read the article but
this would help explain many observations:

*The disease is spreading particularly quickly (and perhaps
with higher mortality) in Western Europe and USA
compared with places that have had and still have
mandatory TB vaccination for infants,
including basically all of Asia.
Japan is a particularly interesting case as they had
large numbers of Chinese visitors in the early days of
the pandemic, have not had a real lockdown and
their public health response has probably been at the
US or Italy level (not like in S. Korea or Taiwan)
Somehow the bodies are not piling up in Japan like
in Italy, Spain, New York (so far).

*Former East Germany has many fewer cases than former West Germany

*In Canada cases are suppressed among folks >50-60 years of
age compared to expectations. Canada (unlike the US) had
widespread "customary" TB vaccination for infants until it was stopped in the 1960's-70's.


https://www.jsatonotes.com/2020/03/if-i-were-north-americaneuropeanaustral.html?m=1

 

[dd564]

The link below is really fascinating (and "not crazy" according
to at least one medical faculty member colleague here).
The idea is that folks who got the
old fashioned TB vaccine as infants have some limited
protection against covid19. You can read the article but
this would help explain many observations:

*The disease is spreading particularly quickly (and perhaps
with higher mortality) in Western Europe and USA
compared with places that have had and still have
mandatory TB vaccination for infants,
including basically all of Asia.
Japan is a particularly interesting case as they had
large numbers of Chinese visitors in the early days of
the pandemic, have not had a real lockdown and
their public health response has probably been at the
US or Italy level (not like in S. Korea or Taiwan)
Somehow the bodies are not piling up in Japan like
in Italy, Spain, New York (so far).

*Former East Germany has many fewer cases than former West Germany

*In Canada cases are suppressed among folks >50-60 years of
age compared to expectations. Canada (unlike the US) had
widespread "customary" TB vaccination for infants until it was stopped in the 1960's-70's.


https://www.jsatonotes.com/2020/03/if-i-were-north-americaneuropeanaustral.html?m=1

The East Germany / West Germany comparison is interesting.
Who knew the Soviets had better vaccines.

 

[I was misinformed]

The East Germany / West Germany comparison is interesting.
Who knew the Soviets had better vaccines.

'Better" may not be quite fair. The covid19 protection from the TB vaccine (if real) is presumably coincidental. Now the different strains of the vaccine appear to have different covid19 effects, but they may all have been fine for the original purpose?

 

[sengsational]

Cold Showers?

You gotta want it pretty bad, but if you want proven way to improve your innate immune response, jump into an ice bath (or maybe just a cold shower). Best would be a Finnish sauna process (hot, then cold). The idea is to "rev-up" your innate immune response as soon as you feel the tiniest first symptom.

There's at least one study of Covid-19 that indicates the virus somehow, mysteriously at this point, down regulates innate immune response as indicated by the reduced levels of monocytes in the blood.

Here's where I'm getting this information:

https://youtu.be/EFRwnhfWXxo?t=207

 

[tmm99]

The link below is really fascinating (and "not crazy" according
to at least one medical faculty member colleague here).
The idea is that folks who got the
old fashioned TB vaccine as infants have some limited
protection against covid19. You can read the article but
this would help explain many observations:

*The disease is spreading particularly quickly (and perhaps
with higher mortality) in Western Europe and USA
compared with places that have had and still have
mandatory TB vaccination for infants,
including basically all of Asia.
Japan is a particularly interesting case as they had
large numbers of Chinese visitors in the early days of
the pandemic, have not had a real lockdown and
their public health response has probably been at the
US or Italy level (not like in S. Korea or Taiwan)
Somehow the bodies are not piling up in Japan like
in Italy, Spain, New York (so far).

*Former East Germany has many fewer cases than former West Germany

*In Canada cases are suppressed among folks >50-60 years of
age compared to expectations. Canada (unlike the US) had
widespread "customary" TB vaccination for infants until it was stopped in the 1960's-70's.


https://www.jsatonotes.com/2020/03/if-i-were-north-americaneuropeanaustral.html?m=1

Very interesting and plausible, as the US is already gearing to try out TB vaccine BCGfor healthcare workers. I wonder which strain of BCG they're planning to use though...

 

[sengsational]

Heat/Cold Stress and NK cells

Dr. Seheult has made another video that mentions the idea that boosting NK cells might be a way to prevent the SARS-CoV-2 virus from tearing through a person so quickly (which seems to be how so many people fall victim to the associated disease).

This video was released yesterday and it makes reference to an experiment that's going to be getting done very shortly that will add NK cells to a person with disease:

Here is the link to the public radio story about adding NK cells experiment ( https://www.kuow.org/stories/seattl...nches-fast-track-covid-19-immunotherapy-trial ).

Patients with Covid-19 have been found to have very low levels of these natural killer cells in their blood when they progress to severe disease. That was found in the original SARS epidemic from 2004, and has now been reported in the early patients with severe disease from China.
It's one of the reasons we think that because these patients with low numbers of natural killer cells progressed to severe disease. We think that if we can provide effective supplements of natural killer cells, these will allow these patients to control this disease more effectively.

So there is expert recognition that increasing NK cells could possibly slow the virus down.

Then you look at evidence that the number of NK cells can be increased by thermal stress on the body as referenced in this paper.

...we have demonstrated that exposing subjects to a cold environmental chamber (5C [refrigerator temp]) for 2 h can be immunoenhancing and that moderate exercise (with a thermal clamp) can further augment the response of certain parameters to subsequent cold exposure.

Turning the experience of that study into something you can do in your house might be pretty easy...sit in a hot bath for an hour at 100F, then take a cold shower (for as long as you can stand it, I suppose).

I haven't taken enough time to understand precisely what the protocol of that study was, but I'll tell you what, if I came down with symptoms, I'd try something along those lines. Very little to lose and a lot to gain.

 

[eytonxav]

A clinical trial by the govt on using vitamin D for the presentation and treatment of Covid. Looks like a very small study.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04334005

 

[sengsational]

A clinical trial by the govt on using vitamin D for the presentation and treatment of Covid. Looks like a very small study.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04334005

Just to be clear, this is a study that's proposed (no results).

It basically either does, or doesn't give one big dose (25K UI) of vitamin D to people presenting with non-severe symptoms. It's double blind. Results in June.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

News on vitamin D: "Preliminary results from a yet-to-be-peer-reviewed study carried out by scientists from the Queen Elizabeth Hospital Foundation Trust and the University of East Anglia have linked low levels of the hormone vitamin D with COVID-19 mortality rates across Europe."


Source: https://www.sciencealert.com/covid-...h-vitamin-d-deficiency-here-s-what-that-means

 

[USGrant1962]

News on vitamin D: "Preliminary results from a yet-to-be-peer-reviewed study carried out by scientists from the Queen Elizabeth Hospital Foundation Trust and the University of East Anglia have linked low levels of the hormone vitamin D with COVID-19 mortality rates across Europe."


Source: https://www.sciencealert.com/covid-...h-vitamin-d-deficiency-here-s-what-that-means

Definitely time to open the beaches. For the children...