Diet Wars

[mickj]

Also the american diabetes association has promoted low carb as a good option for type II diabetes:

https://www.dietdoctor.com/american-diabetes-association-endorses-low-carb-diet-as-option

 

[twaddle]

Stay calm. My assumption here is that ER folks are way more rational than most.

There have been long-term studies of keto, mostly in the context of epilepsy treatments, and it's (mostly) fine.

When I first heard of "keto" I was blown-away that people were essentially biohacking, but I think it's cool to at least experiment with it if you haven't tried it.

I found some aspects very cool, including quicker recovery after running, but a lot of it may have been colored by thinking I was a radical biohacker at the time.

 

[bloom2708]

To avoid strife, I have all potential new friends fill out a questionnaire listing their political, church and diet affiliations.

New friends since implementing: -1

I kid, I kid.

It is rough out there. I could be canceled for just joking about something so serious. Doh, I did it again.

 

[Crewer]

While I'm not low carb I will say Fung's book The Obesity Code made a big impression on me about how snacking - my own included - is so different than when I was a kid. Maybe we sometimes - rarely - had popcorn for an evening snack but other than that we never had after dinner snacks or even after school snacks.

I remember the first time my father took me to McD some time in the 50s. What a treat and unusual thing. But the burgers, fries, and shakes were tiny compared to now!

 

[ncbill]

While I'm not low carb I will say Fung's book The Obesity Code made a big impression on me about how snacking - my own included - is so different than when I was a kid. Maybe we sometimes - rarely - had popcorn for an evening snack but other than that we never had after dinner snacks or even after school snacks.

I remember the first time my father took me to McD some time in the 50s. What a treat and unusual thing. But the burgers, fries, and shakes were tiny compared to now!

That was my takeaway from the book as well...no snacking.

Plus "true" (24 & 48 hour) fasts can be better than intermittent fasting.

And choose the smallest/cheapest option if eating out..e.g. junior burger, small fry, etc.

 

[harllee]

The amount of food American restaurants serve these days is just shocking. We have been doing taking out and my DH and I share one take out meal and have enough left over for the next day's lunch.

 

[twaddle]

no snacking.

That's great if you can pull it off.

I realized I cannot. Somewhat of a nervous habit, I guess. So I made two adjustments:

1) I try to keep busy, ideally somewhere aware from snacks. I find that if I'm immersed in a project, I don't snack. I don't eat at all.

2) When I snack, I go for high-satiety snacks. Salami, cheese, nuts, etc.

Seems to work pretty well. Much better than snacking on chips, cookies, crackers, baked-goods, etc which do nothing to fill me up or slow me down.

 

[6miths]

There are some good youtube videos debunking Taube. He references extremely old/obscure science. It takes work to research. When researched, it is junk science. I am a "keto is dangerous" person. It works by shutting off your appetite and burning your body fat/muscle because the body is starving.

I think Taubes did a great service by making us ask some tough questions and think about the advice we were giving and why we find ourselves in the prediciment we are in with respect to obesity, metabolic syndome and Type 2 diabetes. I think his explanations as to why he cites very old and obscure research are justified. The sad truth is that there is very little good science in the area of nutrition but many, many experts. I wasn't impressed with his new book and it seemed much more like jumping on the band wagon than his previous works. That said, I don't think there is anything wrong with fasting or being in ketosis now and then. It's what we were designed for. I think the bigger issue is not messing up one's body to begin with.

 

[SunnyOne]

An astute person I know refers to this country's preoccupation with eating habits, food rituals & dieting as "American Food Fetishism", lol

I didn't fully appreciate what he meant until I visited Italy. Fantastic food, quite small portions by American standards and enjoyed over conversation...not much eaten on the run or in disposable containers. I don't recall any food advertising while there. No promos like the Shamrock Shake for example HAHAHAHA.

You all are right, food, sadly has become tribal, much like politics and other arenas. What drives this? the need to identify as such? to buy certain products and display their labels through speech or behavior? I don't get it. I'm a free agent...so lol

 

[Helen]

@Crewer, I find your approach very compelling, and it's well supported by evidence.

Sounds like you're getting plenty of protein, and that's where vegans often run into a problem (that can result in being a bit frail).

More and more athletes are turning to a plant based diet, Venus and Serena Williams and Arnold Schwarzenegger all follow a whole food, plant based diet.

Arnold and Jackie Chan were involved in the documentary, "The Game Changers" which focuses on athletes and plant based diets. There is some very interesting discussion on the difference between animal protein and plant protein.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7455754/

 

[mickj]

More and more athletes are turning to a plant based diet, Venus and Serena Williams and Arnold Schwarzenegger all follow a whole food, plant based diet.

Arnold and Jackie Chan were involved in the documentary, "The Game Changers" which focuses on athletes and plant based diets. There is some very interesting discussion on the difference between animal protein and plant protein.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7455754/

Ask Tim Shieff, who was filmed to be in the movie. He asked to be taken out. His health deteriorated while eating vegan. Then he got better after eating meat and eggs.

 

[razztazz]

Ask Tim Shieff, who was filmed to be in the movie. He asked to be taken out. His health deteriorated while eating vegan. Then he got better after eating meat and eggs.

Here's another survivor.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I'm focusing on optimizing my nutritional status and gut bacteria this year. I just got my first microbiome test results and the results were very informative and actionable. From what I've read, it seems like one has to eat plant based, not necessarily vegan, but lots of plants, especially different kinds of plants, to have optimal gut bacteria. But if you can have great gut bacteria on a low carb diet then good for you. I don't think I could figure out how to do that.

 

[Crewer]

The past couple years, we've been trying to eat ever more different kinds of plants, mostly vegetables. It's been something fun to do these days when I'm stuck at home. I am quite sure our tastes have changed so we prefer them all without the cheese, cream sauce, or meat you find in so many recipes. I certainly use more herbs and spices than I used to. Yep, sounds like a fetish to me!

When we travel, we love eating out or using the local market and cooking ourselves. I agree that meals there are generally much better - fresher ingredients, better portion sizes, and no rush. Also there often seems to be less meat in dishes and I am less worried about meats with steroids and antibiotics. More like we try to do at home - LOL.

With no travel we joined a CSA (community supported agriculture) for both summer and winter. It's been wonderful.

 

[bloom2708]

I'm focusing on optimizing my nutritional status and gut bacteria this year. I just got my first microbiome test results and the results were very informative and actionable. From what I've read, it seems like one has to eat plant based, not necessarily vegan, but lots of plants, especially different kinds of plants, to have optimal gut bacteria. But if you can have great gut bacteria on a low carb diet then good for you. I don't think I could figure out how to do that.

The gut microbiome is fascinating. Trillions of bacteria working in unison. To me, this is the next frontier of eating/health.

The interactions of what you eat and what type of gut bacteria thrives. The affects of anti-biotics and alcohol and antacid type products. The affect of meat/dairy on your biome.

I've been eating whole food, plant based for 2 years and focusing on a healthy gut microbiome. Kombucha and other pre/pro biotics. I've learned a ton and still learning.

I turn 50 this spring. Never felt better. It takes some research to parse through all the information out there.

 

[flintnational]

I'm focusing on optimizing my nutritional status and gut bacteria this year. I just got my first microbiome test results and the results were very informative and actionable. From what I've read, it seems like one has to eat plant based, not necessarily vegan, but lots of plants, especially different kinds of plants, to have optimal gut bacteria. But if you can have great gut bacteria on a low carb diet then good for you. I don't think I could figure out how to do that.

I think low carb, like most broad diets, can mean a lot things. To many it means extra meat and no or few carbs/plants. I have stopped telling folks I eat low carb since many interpret it to mean meat and little else. I tend to describe it now as whole food plant based. I suspect I eat very similar to what you describe, a lot of plants and smaller amounts of healthy protein (predominately wild sockeye salmon). We include a lot of healthy fat, olive oil, avocado oil, coconut oil and some grass fed butter. We also focus on our microbiome. Heck, we make our own grass fed organic yogurt and grow our own sprouts. I find it hard to eat more than 100 carbs per day (low carb by most standards) if I exclude pasta, bread, flour, white rice and sugar. Eating a cup of each of the following per day only equals 75 grams of carbs including 24 grams of fiber; broccoli, carrots, bell pepper, cauliflower, cooked spinach, strawberries, blueberries and cherry tomatoes. That's two quarts! I probably eat 5 or 6 cups of the above daily, 50 or 60 total carbs, or very low carb. The DW has to add extra fruit and beans, more carbs, to keep from losing too much weight. I have to stay on the lower carb count to maintain a healthy weight.

PS For those that frequent the bacon thread, please disregard my comments above. Bacon rules!

 

[Marita40]

The only thing that has worked very well to keep my weight in a healthy range is avoiding all sugar and flour products. The flour was easy for me; sugar less so. Of course the two often go hand in hand. The key I believe is to keep insulin from spiking and to stay in fat burn. I do best with a lot of protein and veggies, with a good portion of healthy fat. So it is pretty low carb. Eating higher carb makes me crave more and more carbs.

 

[twaddle]

The gut microbiome is fascinating. Trillions of bacteria working in unison. To me, this is the next frontier of eating/health.

It's interesting, but the science isn't very mature yet. The most exciting "evidence" for paying attention to it were some fecal transplant studies, which I believe have since been retracted.

https://retractionwatch.com/2016/04...-to-obesity-in-rats-retracted-for-faked-data/

One benefit is that lovely butyric acid produced when gut bacteria break down fiber. Or you can let cows do that for you, and then eat butter.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

The gut microbiome is fascinating. Trillions of bacteria working in unison. To me, this is the next frontier of eating/health.

The interactions of what you eat and what type of gut bacteria thrives. The affects of anti-biotics and alcohol and antacid type products. The affect of meat/dairy on your biome.

I've been eating whole food, plant based for 2 years and focusing on a healthy gut microbiome. Kombucha and other pre/pro biotics. I've learned a ton and still learning.

I turn 50 this spring. Never felt better. It takes some research to parse through all the information out there.

It is really interesting how many diseases have been linked to specific gut bacteria patterns already, and I think it is just the tip of the iceberg - autism, epilepsy, anxiety, depression, multiple sclerosis, overweight, fibromyalgia, irritable bowel disease, and GI cancers to name just a few.

There still isn't much training in Western medicine on common nutritional issues like magnesium or vitamin D deficiency, so it will probably take decades for cutting edge microbiome tests to become commonly used in mainstream medicine. But high tech companies, using AI, are leap frogging mainstream medicine on that front these days. There's all sorts of different tests out there now people can order on their own, and compared to common medical bills, they are really cheap. Like $100 for pages and pages of info on your microbiome and how it compares to different patterns commonly found in different control groups from the super healthy to those with various disease states.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

It's interesting, but the science isn't very mature yet. The most exciting "evidence" for paying attention to it were some fecal transplant studies, which I believe have since been retracted.

https://retractionwatch.com/2016/04...-to-obesity-in-rats-retracted-for-faked-data/

One benefit is that lovely butyric acid produced when gut bacteria break down fiber. Or you can let cows do that for you, and then eat butter.

A google search of "pubmed fecal transplants" brings up 646,000 results. It is a big area of research these days, and only a small part of general microbiome studies. A Google search for "pubmed fecal transplant C. difficile strain" alone brings up over 91,000 results.

 

[twaddle]

If you want to sift through a lot of those studies, I like Rhonda Patrick:
https://www.foundmyfitness.com/news/t/microbiome

You can tweet at her too: @foundmyfitness

 

[qwerty3656]

But if you can have great gut bacteria on a low carb diet then good for you. I don't think I could figure out how to do that.

I eat way more vegetables when I am doing low carb than when I'm not. You count net carbs (subtract the fiber from carbs) when you calculate the carbs. I don't even count the carbs in high fiber vegetables and consider them free food. Fasting and KETO have totally healed my gut microbiome.

 

[SunnyOne]

I have read of some long term low carb followers who suffered gastro problems from not "feeding" their guts with prebiotic plants....(potatoes, tubers, etc.)....seems the solution recommended is consuming certain forms of prebiotic fiber.

 

[twaddle]

I have read of some long term low carb followers who suffered gastro problems from not "feeding" their guts with prebiotic plants....(potatoes, tubers, etc.)....seems the solution recommended is consuming certain forms of prebiotic fiber.

It was the opposite for me, but I'd love to read any studies if you've got ref's.

As an aside, I did the 23andme thing a while back and it flagged one gene related to gluten sensitivity. I know celiacs, and I'm definitely not one.

But my gut feels/works *much* better on LC. I mean night and day. I was frankly surprised.

Edit: Oh, are you talking about the Polish "optimal diet" stuff? Yeah, maybe. Lots of confounders there.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

It was the opposite for me, but I'd love to read any studies if you've got ref's.

You can find them with a Google search for terms like:

low carb diet microbiota-accessible carbohydrates