‘What Do I Do When I Get Stupid?’

MichaelB said:
(snip)Put the daughter on the accounts is a great option. At the same time give her an investment policy statement or plan is even better. I would add a third item: a letter to myself that they can have custody of and hand back to me when I am suffering this terrible condition that affirms to me it is real and I need to step aside and let them take over the finances.
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That's all very well for people who have a daughter (or son), but not everyone does. The only persons other than my (non-existent) children that I would consider trustworthy enough to take over my financial affairs are my seven nieces, but I don't know if they will have acquired any more financial savvy than I have left, when I reach the dangerous age (and I suspect one of them definitely won't, given her track record so far). Besides, they have their own parents, my siblings, to concern themselves with. With anyone else, IMO there is just too much possibility for abuse.

I do think the letter from my 60-year-old self to my 75-year-old self, reminding me to get everything set up on autopilot before I turn 80, would be a good addition to the investment policy statement. Once I get the IPS done and the letter written, I guess I should give copies of both to each of the seven so if they notice me doing anything lame-brained, they can show me the letter.
 
imoldernu said:
Wow.. what a great thought...
"What do I do when I get stupid"

Am there! ret. '89. age 76.

The forum is my last stop before going on the AZ support websites. no kiddin'. A place to go to share the day to day loss of what was a pretty fair functional intellect.

The good things-
- Emphasis on rote. Conscious stabilization of decision type functions. For better or worse, finished all the legal things... Will, Living will, power if attorney, trust items, and changing to low risk investments.
- Teamwork with my bride for everything from social calendar, to driving.
- Prepare my kids and my friends for the change. Hate the whispering about "losing it". Friends understand.
-Work hard to keep what is still there... news, current events, biking, canoeing, and maintaining my camp in the woods.
- A concentrated effort over the past three years, to avoid entangling alliances... (contacts with old, distant friends)
-Courage to accept what I cannot change..

The bad things-
-Too many "things"... Camp on lake, Florida senior community, Illinois senior community ... three older cars,
-Still too much paper... address changes screw up electronic billing, TV, internet, utilities, insurance, credit and debit cards, bank accounts etc.
-Everything takes more time. Learning and staying abreast of changes in Medicare, Medicare D, Doctors appointments and the inevitable problems that occur when USPS forwarding is too slow.
- Time wasted in looking for "things"... Ending up in the garage, or the den, knowing that I came in for "something" but forgot "what".
- Coming to grips with not just memory, but physical things... aches, pains, neuropathy, and (just this year)... noticing a loss of physical strength.


So much more, but the forum is for fun and enjoyment... so will leave it there. Fascinating trip into another part of life.
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You, sir, are quite a guy. I wish you all the best in this "fascinating trip into another part of life". imoldernu, you phrased it so well. You just nailed it.
 
kyounge1956 said:
That's all very well for people who have a daughter (or son), but not everyone does. The only persons other than my (non-existent) children that I would consider trustworthy enough to take over my financial affairs are my seven nieces, but I don't know if they will have acquired any more financial savvy than I have left, when I reach the dangerous age (and I suspect one of them definitely won't, given her track record so far). Besides, they have their own parents, my siblings, to concern themselves with. With anyone else, IMO there is just too much possibility for abuse.
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My sister/BIL are child-free. My sister has also been in significant caregiver role for our grandmother and her husbands parents (at different times since they were divorced). She has been grooming her nieces on her husbands side, and my sons for their eventual roles. She explains regularly that one of the reason she spoils them is so they'll take care of her in her dotage.

She's got a few decades, and has most everything financial on autopilot... but she's more worried about the point she and BIL can no longer care for themselves... she wants to make sure someone will visit her at the care facility.
 
Out of curiosity more than anything else, would you be comfy paying a trustworthy advisor to mind your affairs as you became less able? What would be a fair price?
 
kyounge1956 said:
I do think the letter from my 60-year-old self to my 75-year-old self, reminding me to get everything set up on autopilot before I turn 80, would be a good addition to the investment policy statement.
Click to expand...
But, when you turn 75 or 80 and have lost a few marbles would you just shrug it off as blather from some young snapperwhipper? How do you mitigate that risk?
 
Very good point. I tend to think I will have the same mental capacity when I am older, but I should know better. I have no children. I need to think about how I should handle my finance in my later years.
 
kyounge1956 said:
That's all very well for people who have a daughter (or son), but not everyone does. The only persons other than my (non-existent) children that I would consider trustworthy enough to take over my financial affairs are my seven nieces, but I don't know if they will have acquired any more financial savvy than I have left, when I reach the dangerous age (and I suspect one of them definitely won't, given her track record so far). Besides, they have their own parents, my siblings, to concern themselves with. With anyone else, IMO there is just too much possibility for abuse.

I do think the letter from my 60-year-old self to my 75-year-old self, reminding me to get everything set up on autopilot before I turn 80, would be a good addition to the investment policy statement. Once I get the IPS done and the letter written, I guess I should give copies of both to each of the seven so if they notice me doing anything lame-brained, they can show me the letter.
Click to expand...

I 'm in the same boat but I only have one competent niece, and I am sure she will have her hands full taking care of my older sister who's health is already starting to fail. My executor is sharp lawyer my age, but I doubt he'll be in much better shape by the time we are in our 70s.

There are couple of young dreamers on the forum who've impressed me enough that I might be comfortable giving them control and even willing to pay 1% but that seems unlikely to actually occur.

I think probably some managed payouts funds and pray I don't get Alzheimer are my best bets.
 
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kumquat said:
kyounge1956 said:
I do think the letter from my 60-year-old self to my 75-year-old self, reminding me to get everything set up on autopilot before I turn 80, would be a good addition to the investment policy statement. Once I get the IPS done and the letter written, I guess I should give copies of both to each of the seven so if they notice me doing anything lame-brained, they can show me the letter.
Click to expand...
But, when you turn 75 or 80 and have lost a few marbles would you just shrug it off as blather from some young snapperwhipper? How do you mitigate that risk?
Click to expand...
You're right, maybe I will. You know what the poet says, the best-laid plans of mice & men gang aft aglee. But what else can I do? ISTM that as a childless, single person, I have a choice between having my money managed (when I'm old) by potentially incompetent me and potentially dishonest financial "advisors". Of the two, I'll take me any day, because I'm a chicken, and a lazy chicken at that, and I don't expect that to change. Even if I do lose some of my marbles, I expect to be still too much of a coward to put more than 25-30% of my assets in the stock market, and still lazy enough to get as much as possible of my finances on auto-pilot. And even an honest financial advisor (assuming that in my semi-competent state I can tell the difference between the honest ones and the scammers) will charge me management fees etc that will cut into my return, perhaps as much as my own incompetence will.

Do you have another alternative to suggest?
 
This is a tough nut. If someone is unwilling to hire a financial advisor when they are 40, they are just as unlikely when they are 70 and mentally declining. Involving someone else in one's affairs is a process that takes time and isn't just about the finances.

I think the most important part is not managing the portfolio but being aware that one is declining and being able to deal with it.
 
I may be hanged in the town square for suggesting this, but in response to the OP's question about what to do when one loses cognitive function: what about kids? If one is fortunate enough to have kid(s) who share similar opinions about money, hopefully they could be counted on to "take over". In a purely economic sense, could one look at the expense of having kids as insurance for cognitive decline in old age?
 
shades of gray

This is not as simple or black and white as it appears. What about someone who goes in and out of being competent? I can tell you from direct personal experience this happens often. What if you are fine most of the time, but in a period of cognitive incapacity, you sell assets at way below market value or make some other foolish decision that you never would have when "fully there"?

Also, those of us with SO's typically designate her/him, but what if he/she isn't all there either?

The bottom line is that in only a few cases, there is a clear and nearly-instant switch from "ok" to "not okay". Most of the time, though, there are infinite shades of gray and a more gradual decline.

imoldernu said:
Power of attorney - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and Attorney in Fact.
IMHO, understanding the many alternatives is very important.

Decision should come early on. Note "Capacity of the Grantor".
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Chuckanut said:
This article in the WSJ concerns services that help elderly people pay their bills and take care of day to day money issues, such as paying bills, track medical claims and resolve payment issues. I am not sure I would be comfortable with this myself, but it is an idea.

Conquering Retirement: Hiring a Bill Payer - WSJ.com
Click to expand...

Good article. As you mentioned, "Comfortable"? No... Needed? Oh yes. A few years ago, as a voluntary caregiver where the kids were too far away to help, I discovered just how important hands on help was needed. Not as a policeman to foil senior scams, but just to stay ahead of the normal day to day errors that occur with normal bills and services. (In one case, a medical bill for many thousands that was paid twice).

In another case, an older lady who was forced into bankruptcy for $200K of med bills for the cancer care. Her husband had died, and there was no one to defend her interests. As I went through 3 paper bags filled with old bills. ( a two week process)... she was forced from her home to a medicaid home. For all of that... no representation.

The article mentions $50 to $150 an hour for basic, mostly common sense help with with daily living and paperwork chores. My entrepreneurial instincts see a great opportunity. For relatives who may be hundreds of miles away, this expense would seem very nominal.

For those who are still in the marketplace... How does that sound?
 
One of the problems of diminished capacity, is the Rumsfeld point about "knowing what you know" etc. .
This is tougher than it may seem. Alzheimers is often accompanied by personality changes that range from passivity, to persistent agitation, to
paranoia and aggression... and there may be no prior indication of these symptoms.
I am not convinced that even in early stages, that introspection can identify these predilections. Trying to plan for ones' own walk down the path is difficult.

One of the suggestions, made here on many occasions, is to obtain early diagnosis. Well meaning, to be sure, but not as easy as it sounds. There are many, many downsides to obtaining a diagnosis... either a private diagnosis or a legal diagnosis. While the progress in treatment is advancing, it is very slow, and even the most optimistic results show marginal improvement, short term, while long terms results are even less effective. Very tough call!
 
Some time ago, I read about a couple, or was it just one person, who left the home to a non-related care giver in exchange for the help when they were alive. Sounded reasonable to me, but that must be a long-time care provider that they knew and trusted.

It's tough, even for people who have children to rely on. I have heard of elderlies who were practically robbed by their offsprings, and I am sure you all have too.
 
I hope I do not live so long that I will need to worry about it. Perhaps I can turn my pacemaker off somehow......
 
the key word is trust.......who do you trust to tell you it's time to turn over the keys to your car or your finacial affairs to another. Find someone you trust and tell yourself every day you'll listen to them when they tell you it's time. I feel myself slowing down mentally, no one else sees it yet.......but they will and I'll be ready. I hope! And, some get dementia in middle age, others in their 80's and 90's. No one knows ahead of time......and some remain in denial, making life miserable for themselves and their family.
 
When the circumstances of cognitive impairment warrant it, and depending on among other things family dynamics, drafting of a Power of Attorney or appointing of a Conservator of Estate is often a good idea. The former usually occurs with a functional family where, for example a child can act on behalf of the impaired individual. The POA implies that they will act as the cognitively impaired person would do if they had the ability to make the financial decision. The latter usually occurs when the cognitively impaired person has no family or trusted person to turn to or when the family is dysfunctional.
 
I know of two cases where this is going on. People in denial can get really nasty, and cause a lot of harm. They refuse to see a doctor or give up anything (including driving), can't remember a thing they said an hour ago or that was said to them, get mean and accusatory when they're shown written evidence of what was said or done, and generally drive everyone around them nuts. I imagine some cases of "elder abuse" are caused by caregivers being driven over the edge.

Amethyst

jerome len said:
t....and some remain in denial, making life miserable for themselves and their family.
Click to expand...
 
Ay, ay, ay! The curse of living too long. Not that I can pick my fate, but a quick stroke or heart attack would be something I wish for myself.

Now, where's that bottle of eau de vie I bought in Idaho. What is the price of a pack of cigarettes now? I have not bought one in a decade.
 
clifp said:
I 'm in the same boat but I only have one competent niece, and I am sure she will have her hands full taking care of my older sister who's health is already starting to fail. My executor is sharp lawyer my age, but I doubt he'll be in much better shape by the time we are in our 70s.
There are couple of young dreamers on the forum who've impressed me enough that I might be comfortable giving them control and even willing to pay 1% but that seems unlikely to actually occur.
I think probably some managed payouts funds and pray I don't get Alzheimer are my best bets.
Click to expand...
We can take care of each other. If we can remember who each other is...
 
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