Why do we get fat?

[Letj]

People can argue about this until the cows come home, but despite all the controversy and the many things yet unknown people like me who want to lose weight need to get on with it. I lose weight by 1) counting calories and keeping them to 1200 per day; 2) eating mostly vegetables, protein, fruit, nuts and seeds with minimal low carb products (i.e. the whole wheat low carb low calorie tortilla I had as a fajita base for dinner today); 3) drinking lots of water; 4) tracking everything; 5) avoiding sugar and baked goods, fast food and any other such nutritional nightmares; 6) making all this a daily habit.
I'm not saying this is easy. But it is not rocket science and it works, week after week.

Isn't it easier just to eat much smaller portion of a balanced meal or fewer meals a day? Counting calories or carefully selecting everything you put on your plate seems like hard work. I try to stay away from processed foods, eat small portions and eat from all the food groups and that does the trick.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[MRG]

For me counting calories is no big deal. I've entered data for 310 days for both DW and me. Once you get started your common meals stay in the recently used and require little time or thought. I import recipes from the net and the app supports modifying serving sizes so accounting for the food is easy. If you eat food that has labels you just scan them with the camera. Only investment besides time was a $15.00 food scale, it's now the most often used thing in the kitchen.

One unforseen benefit is the knowledge that I gain by entering the data. I never understood, at least in detail, macros and what foods were good source of each. A year ago I was of the opinion that a carb crash was a figment of someone's imagination. Never knew I had them multiple times daily. I was a hummingbird running from one sugary source to another. The knowledge gained has changed the foods that we choose to eat. It's pretty easy to cut calories out when you know what foods are higher you can find alternatives to save. It's like seeing your expenses for the first time. What do you mean I'm spending that much money/carlories on that.

 

[Fedup]

Kid #1 took us to the airport and she told us she lost 10 lbs. I asked her what her secret for weight lost, she said she kept out of dairy, gluten, cheese, all sugar, no sugar drink, no alcohol, she eats mostly vegetables, fresh fruits and more bland meals.
I knew the minute one kid lose 25 lbs, the pressure is on for the other.

 

[HadEnuff]

CICO is a tautology - sure it's true, but it's not necessarily helpful.

It's like saying quitting smoking is easy, you just have to put down the cigarette. Sure, but...

I've watched various relatives quit smoking over the years. Most tried and failed and tried and failed before finally quitting. One DID just quit one day - it was easy for her.

Losing weight is analogous to this. Some people find it easy to adjust their eating habits, for others is a huge struggle.

Telling people that ALL it takes to lose weight is to eat less just isn't helpful.

Well, telling people that if they want to retire someday, they need to LBYM may not be "helpful" to someone who can't seem to get control of their spending. But it doesn't change the fact that if you want to have money later, you can't spend it all now.

I think what is less helpful is to promote goofy diets that cannot be maintained, or to suggest that "well, if you have strong impulses to eat, and no impulse to exercise, maybe we can find some other way for you to not be heavier than you want to be." Or maybe worse, "you are right. it's hopeless for you. There is no solution."

I prefer "it's simple. But it's hard. Many people have overcome the difficulty and succeeded, and you can too. But it's hard. But you can do it."

The fact that some have succeeded should be interpreted to mean that difficult things can be accomplished, and not that it was easier for them than it is for me.

 

[dixonge]

I've cast my vote for Gary Taubes on this forum before, so I won't weigh in again on the validity of his findings, but I will lend this knowledge from my own empirical observations of my oldest son, who has type 1 diabetes: A carb is definitely not a carb. Refined carbs affect blood glucose levels very differently than carbs with a lower glycemic index and lead to insulin resistance.
CICO is a gross oversimplification of a very complex process and the vast majority of people who follow it usually gain most or all of the weight back. (See "The Biggest Loser" http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/health/biggest-loser-weight-loss.html)

First, that biggest loser article, and the study it is based on, has been shown to be rather weak. The critiques and analysis are just coming out, but I've already read two articles debunking major portions of it, including competitors discussing all of the illegal weight-loss drugs they were forced to ingest. I don't have links for that right now though. However, I think it is false to say that the 'vast majority' who count calories gain their weight back. It's especially egregious to use the biggest loser competitors as evidence for that. In the article you link to it is obvious they were doing insane things to lose weight at unsafe levels. They are extreme outliers.

Regarding Taubes, I could write all day on this subject. I was a big fan/follower for many years. Unfortunately, Taubes' own organization, NUSI, funded a study which has, evidently, disproven the carb/insulin hypothesis. Here is a quote and a link (which has already been provided in this thread):

The loss of fat mass slowed down on a low-carb, high-fat diet.” “…it took the full 28 days of a ketogenic diet to lose the same amount of fat as was lost in the first 15 days of the normal carbohydrate diet.”
Dr. Hall’s conclusion: no metabolic advantage to a ketogenic diet. Carb-Insulin theory of obesity falsified.

https://freetheanimal.com/2016/05/carbohydtate-alternative-hypothesis.html


The study was completed in 2014, but while the process of having it published is still in the final stages, that didn't stop Taubes and the NUSI staff from taking home insane salaries from this non-profit:


https://freetheanimal.com/2016/05/critique-executive-compensation.html

Just to wrap this up, my wife and I were just like most middle-aged people, constantly gaining weight and trying anything we could latch on to in an effort to lose weight. The only thing that worked is when we finally just plain counted calories. This includes my wife getting off of all Type II medication and putting all her glucose blood work back into non-diabetic ranges.

 

[DayDreaming]

... My husband can have a few potato chips a day...

An impressive display of willpower!

 

[rgarling]

... Unfortunately, Taubes' own organization, NUSI, funded a study which has, evidently, disproven the carb/insulin hypothesis.

...
Dr. Hall’s conclusion: no metabolic advantage to a ketogenic diet. Carb-Insulin theory of obesity falsified.

He has proven no such thing. At his poster session Dr. Hall said some things that his study didn't actually show. For example, "no metabolic advantage to a ketogenic diet", while his abstract title was "Energy Expenditure Increases Following An Isocaloric Ketogenic Diet in Overweight And Obese Men". Furthermore, he goes on to calculate the actual metabolic advantage at 100 calories per day.

He is suffering some cognitive dissonance.

 

[braumeister]

He is suffering some cognitive dissonance.

I liked this quote from Dr. Mike Eades:

If you were Kevin Hall and you spent the last year insisting that low-fat diets were the best way to lose weight and that you’d already refuted the carbohydrate-insulin hypothesis, wouldn’t you be tempted to spin your data to suggest that you’re still right?

 

[eytonxav]

Also, I noticed the "freetheanimal" blogger has his own book to promote.

 

[FreeBear]

I've lost about 45 pounds over the last 3 years, including almost 15 pounds in the last year of ER. This was kicked off by a minor health scare and doctors orders to lose a ton of weight or face the prospect of drugs. DW was the enforcer...

Former diet:
- No breakfast, ever!
- Ate out 2x daily (yes DAILY!)
- Southern style barbecue 2x/week (ribs w/ sauce, fries, smoked sausage, fried chicken wings)
- Italian & pizza buffet 1-2x/week (PIZZA!!, pasta, bread, cake & cookies!!), I ate until I could barely move...
- Chinese buffet several times/week (rice, noodles, egg rolls, meat!, ice cream), again I ate until more than full
- Cheap mexican fast food 1-2x/week (beef burritos with cheese, beef tacos, etc)
- Cheap burgurs 1-2/week
- "Free" donuts/sweets/pizza 1-2x/week
- Can of soda (non-diet) a few times/week to make through the day
- Work "team building" food and drink (cheap beer) fests several times/year

I was fat and angry, mood swings due to the carb/sugar spikes/crashes throughout the day. I was a stress and comfort eater; I'm amazed I made it this far.

New diet (last 3 years):
- Always eat breakfast
- Breakfast is almost always slow-cook, unsweetened oatmeal with nuts, fruit, and a cut of skim milk
- Dinner consists of salad and/or tons of cooked veggies with either meat (organic chicken or wild-caught fish, often salmon) or beans/lentils (eg in chilli). Still do some rice, although switched to brown rice
- DW learned to cook Thai curries at home
- DW learned to make salads and salad dressings this meat eater loves, best I've had anywhere!
- Stopped serving pork and beef at home
- No longer eat crackers/chips and the like, almost never eat cheese, pizza or barbecue
- Still love to eat out, although now 3-4 times week, not 2x/DAY!
- Thai restaurant typically 2x/week (menu, not buffet). Almost always super spicy curries w/ chicken and veggies, occasionally indulge in chinese-style noodle dish
- Big splurge is super spicy Indian buffet 1x/week, but avoid the deep fried stuff and the bread & rice (eat bread in general only 1-2x/week)
- Indulge in chocolate cake and/or ice cream about 1x/week

Note that I lost the 45 pounds while my exercise level & intensity remained the same (2-3 x/week for 1-2 hrs running, swimming, biking, kayaking, etc).

Honestly, it has been a hard road mentally but the changes have given me a new lease on life. I'm lighter now than I was in high school, and plan to lose another 8 pounds. I'm much stronger biking and kayaking too. We're now trying to ramp up exercise to 5x/week for 45 minutes to 2 hr, much more fun now that we're ER'd and have the time to enjoy life!

FB

 

[ivinsfan]

I've lost about 45 pounds over the last 3 years, including almost 15 pounds in the last year of ER. This was kicked off by a minor health scare and doctors orders to lose a ton of weight or face the prospect of drugs. DW was the enforcer...

Former diet:
- No breakfast, ever!
- Ate out 2x daily (yes DAILY!)
- Southern style barbecue 2x/week (ribs w/ sauce, fries, smoked sausage, fried chicken wings)
- Italian & pizza buffet 1-2x/week (PIZZA!!, pasta, bread, cake & cookies!!), I ate until I could barely move...
- Chinese buffet several times/week (rice, noodles, egg rolls, meat!, ice cream), again I ate until more than full
- Cheap mexican fast food 1-2x/week (beef burritos with cheese, beef tacos, etc)
- Cheap burgurs 1-2/week
- "Free" donuts/sweets/pizza 1-2x/week
- Can of soda (non-diet) a few times/week to make through the day
- Work "team building" food and drink (cheap beer) fests several times/year

I was fat and angry, mood swings due to the carb/sugar spikes/crashes throughout the day. I was a stress and comfort eater; I'm amazed I made it this far.

New diet (last 3 years):
- Always eat breakfast
- Breakfast is almost always slow-cook, unsweetened oatmeal with nuts, fruit, and a cut of skim milk
- Dinner consists of salad and/or tons of cooked veggies with either meat (organic chicken or wild-caught fish, often salmon) or beans/lentils (eg in chilli). Still do some rice, although switched to brown rice
- DW learned to cook Thai curries at home
- DW learned to make salads and salad dressings this meat eater loves, best I've had anywhere!
- Stopped serving pork and beef at home
- No longer eat crackers/chips and the like, almost never eat cheese, pizza or barbecue
- Still love to eat out, although now 3-4 times week, not 2x/DAY!
- Thai restaurant typically 2x/week (menu, not buffet). Almost always super spicy curries w/ chicken and veggies, occasionally indulge in chinese-style noodle dish
- Big splurge is super spicy Indian buffet 1x/week, but avoid the deep fried stuff and the bread & rice (eat bread in general only 1-2x/week)
- Indulge in chocolate cake and/or ice cream about 1x/week

Note that I lost the 45 pounds while my exercise level & intensity remained the same (2-3 x/week for 1-2 hrs running, swimming, biking, kayaking, etc).

Honestly, it has been a hard road mentally but the changes have given me a new lease on life. I'm lighter now than I was in high school, and plan to lose another 8 pounds. I'm much stronger biking and kayaking too. We're now trying to ramp up exercise to 5x/week for 45 minutes to 2 hr, much more fun now that we're ER'd and have the time to enjoy life!

FB

Congrats on weight loss. You don't say how old you are, but I'll be curious to see in another 5 years if your present eating habits have you at a stable weight. I'd wager the eating out 3-4 times a week is going to turn into an issue. I noticed you don't mention eggs.

We have eaten a similar diet for around 15 years except...no oatmeal, would swap that out with yogurt/fruit. Do you skip lunch? here it's eggs for lunch probably each eat a dozen a week. Dinner meat protein ( all kinds) salads and only veggies. We Don' do lentils, beans or rice on any regular basis. Now eating out, we have cut back to once every 3 to 4 weeks because of problem with weight control.

We are active probably towards one hour 5-6 times a week. I wear a pedometer when not exercising and aim for at least 10,000 steps on days when I don't do an workout program. Even with all this after 15 years it doesn't take much of a slip up for us both to start gaining some pounds. Something it's a real pain....at 63 even after 15 years of this eating pattern and even though I have never had a real weight problem, I need to watch everything I put into my mouth. And I can't do the weekly cake and ice cream either.

 

[dixonge]

He has proven no such thing. At his poster session Dr. Hall said some things that his study didn't actually show. For example, "no metabolic advantage to a ketogenic diet", while his abstract title was "Energy Expenditure Increases Following An Isocaloric Ketogenic Diet in Overweight And Obese Men". Furthermore, he goes on to calculate the actual metabolic advantage at 100 calories per day.

He is suffering some cognitive dissonance.

I liked this quote from Dr. Mike Eades:

Quote: If you were Kevin Hall and you spent the last year insisting that low-fat diets were the best way to lose weight and that you’d already refuted the carbohydrate-insulin hypothesis, wouldn’t you be tempted to spin your data to suggest that you’re still right?

Also, I noticed the "freetheanimal" blogger has his own book to promote.

Well *that* didn't take long. Whew! So should we get into a quote duel? I have plenty that take a 180-degree opposite stance of yours. Oh, wait. I guess I should probably heed my signature...

So I will refrain from my usual link-and-quote-fest and provide some anecdotal commentary.

Just FYI, I've been low-carb longer than I haven't been, at least since Taubes' first book came out. (wait, does that mean Taubes might spin his data, since he's selling books?) At one point we were active zero-carbers. We at about 90-95% meat with very little else on the side. Felt good, lost some weight. A bit expensive, though... Four years ago the wife was diagnosed with Type II diabetes. Her HBA1C was over 10! She had a toenail fungus, an early symptom which prompted the doctor to do the blood test to begin with. For two years she controlled it by avoiding carbs and taking Metformin. And then we ran across the Newcastle Diet. She ate 800 calories/day for 8 weeks, lost a lot of weight, and then stopped taking Metformin. Her daily, post-prandial and HBA1C tests all came back showing normal, non-diabetic results. Still do.

So after her amazing display of determination it was obvious to me that calorie-counting worked. Her 8-week diet was around 50% carbs, maybe higher. Obviously caloric reduction worked and didn't care about carbohydrates. So I followed suit. NO - I didn't go that low. But I've been losing weight fairly successfully at around 1200-1400 calories per day for a couple of years. Sometimes I get lazy and plateau, but counting always sets me back on the path. 55-60 pounds of weight loss so far, maybe 15 to go. All from just counting calories, avoiding calorically-dense foods.

Point being - it's the calories, not the carbs.

End of story.

 

[braumeister]

Point being - it's the calories, not the carbs

Of course it is. Please don't think I was trying to refute anyone's comments -- I just liked that quote.

My personal point is just that we're all different, and the effort of trying to lose weight is kind of like trying to pick out the best pair of shoes. You find something that works for you, but it's completely pointless recommending that specific brand and model to someone else.

I do think that the LCHF diet is probably easier for most people to stick to for as long as it takes to lose weight, so that's my personal bias. But as you pointed out, different strokes for different folks.

 

[eytonxav]

My point was that it seems that many that have strong opinions, also have a book or their own public hypothesis to defend. Glad to hear you and your wife were successful. I am diabetic, and my investigations have found that quite a few diabetic and pre-diabetics do very well on on low carb high fat diet. That also in no way implies that one can consume very high calorie amounts of LCHF and expect to lose weight.

 

[Amethyst]

I am curious about something, and maybe the people on this thread can shed some light. Do complex carbohydrates have any ill effect on a person who is normal weight and doesn't have diabetes? I don't mean cakes, cookies, pie, crackers...those are not too good for anyone. But is there any reason for someone who has normal weight and blood sugar to, say, avoid bread and potatoes?

 

[HadEnuff]

I am curious about something, and maybe the people on this thread can shed some light. Do complex carbohydrates have any ill effect on a person who is normal weight and doesn't have diabetes? I don't mean cakes, cookies, pie, crackers...those are not too good for anyone. But is there any reason for someone who has normal weight and blood sugar to, say, avoid bread and potatoes?

IMO, no problem. It seems to me that in whatever amounts you currently consume them, you have enough other stuff going on that your body can handle it. Could be exercise, or genetics...whatever. If the result is good for you, I think you just keep doing what you are doing, being mindful that things can change when you age, or if some other change occurs, such as reducing your exercise.

 

[haha]

Well *that* didn't take long. Whew! So should we get into a quote duel? I have plenty that take a 180-degree opposite stance of yours. Oh, wait. I guess I should probably heed my signature...

So I will refrain from my usual link-and-quote-fest and provide some anecdotal commentary.

Just FYI, I've been low-carb longer than I haven't been, at least since Taubes' first book came out. (wait, does that mean Taubes might spin his data, since he's selling books?) At one point we were active zero-carbers. We at about 90-95% meat with very little else on the side. Felt good, lost some weight. A bit expensive, though... Four years ago the wife was diagnosed with Type II diabetes. Her HBA1C was over 10! She had a toenail fungus, an early symptom which prompted the doctor to do the blood test to begin with. For two years she controlled it by avoiding carbs and taking Metformin. And then we ran across the Newcastle Diet. She ate 800 calories/day for 8 weeks, lost a lot of weight, and then stopped taking Metformin. Her daily, post-prandial and HBA1C tests all came back showing normal, non-diabetic results. Still do.

So after her amazing display of determination it was obvious to me that calorie-counting worked. Her 8-week diet was around 50% carbs, maybe higher. Obviously caloric reduction worked and didn't care about carbohydrates. So I followed suit. NO - I didn't go that low. But I've been losing weight fairly successfully at around 1200-1400 calories per day for a couple of years. Sometimes I get lazy and plateau, but counting always sets me back on the path. 55-60 pounds of weight loss so far, maybe 15 to go. All from just counting calories, avoiding calorically-dense foods.

Point being - it's the calories, not the carbs.

End of story.

A man who isn't just lying in bed all day eating 1200 to 1400 calories per day for two years should be down to about 100 pounds by now. He also should get a medal for will power.

Glad your wife recovered so well. I have never heard a story like this before, but stranger things have happened.

Ha

 

[RonBoyd]

Point being - it's the calories, not the carbs.

End of story.

That is my conclusion also.

BTW:

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him." --Proverbs

"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." -- Mark Twain

"Never wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." -- George Bernard Shaw

 

[MRG]

People sure spend a lot of money and time on diets. "How do I lose weight?" is worth billions every year. Good thing all the weight loss experts are as honest and truthful as they can possibly be with all the dollars to be made.

I know our Maltese was obese, lethargic, and in pain at 19 pounds. His little legs were unable to hold his weight. Hip joint was dislocated, vet got it back in. Dog was already on prescription dog food and he changed it, less calories. "Strict about measurement and no cheating!" He promised the dog would lose weight quickly if we followed the directions, faster if we walked him. Dog weighs 12 pounds now. He runs around and plays, acts 3 years younger. All from changing the amount of calories he ate. Nobody writes books about "how to make your dog lose weight?"

 

[nash031]

I am curious about something, and maybe the people on this thread can shed some light. Do complex carbohydrates have any ill effect on a person who is normal weight and doesn't have diabetes? I don't mean cakes, cookies, pie, crackers...those are not too good for anyone. But is there any reason for someone who has normal weight and blood sugar to, say, avoid bread and potatoes?

Limit, no need to avoid. Now, I'm a 30-40 mile a week runner right now, but I eat a large piece of bread daily, broken in half for a sandwich at lunch, and do potatoes, yams, and even pasta sometimes. My wife eats a similar diet with no issues.

The thing people run into with any carb is that they are easy to overeat. Most of them are relatively empty vehicles for something else like a protein or a fat. So eat them sparingly, and get most of your carbs from fruits and veggies.

 

[dixonge]

A man who isn't just lying in bed all day eating 1200 to 1400 calories per day for two years should be down to about 100 pounds by now. He also should get a medal for will power.

Glad your wife recovered so well. I have never heard a story like this before, but stranger things have happened.

Ha

When I plug my numbers into any of the many rigorous BMI calculators online, my maintenance level is pegged at around 2000. So in order to lose 2 pounds per week (my typical goal) I would need to shave off 1000 calories. Most of the calculators refuse to print this number, claiming it would be too low, as if I would become emaciated. So I have found that 1200 works for me. Yes, just like 99% of the population I'm probably underestimating my actual calories, but I'm pretty thorough in my calculations. I do give in to the occasional splurge, which raises my weekly calorie total and slows down the progress, but my target is still 1200. My only exercise is power-walking twice a week, 4 miles in 1 hour, plus my job entails about 20-30 flights of stairs per day.

Regarding my wife, she's one of many who have experienced complete regression of Type II. Follow the link I provided earlier and you can read about the ongoing studies and the underlying Twin Cycle hypothesis. It all started when a lot of gastric bypass patients experienced normalized blood sugar within 2 weeks of their surgeries. Quite fascinating, actually.

 

[Chuckanut]

Do wags works for you. We are all different.


4

 

[MRG]

I am curious about something, and maybe the people on this thread can shed some light. Do complex carbohydrates have any ill effect on a person who is normal weight and doesn't have diabetes? I don't mean cakes, cookies, pie, crackers...those are not too good for anyone. But is there any reason for someone who has normal weight and blood sugar to, say, avoid bread and potatoes?

My wife and I lost a combined 105 pounds eating them. From last May to this year. Most of our loss occurred in the first 8-9 months the last months have been maintenence. I can't tell a difference in sugary fruit vs. brown rice but things like little sugary sweet Brookside chocolate innards they light my taste buds up. That's the stuff I seriously limit.

 

[Amethyst]

See, this is the thing I don't get. Breaking one piece of bread in half, and that's all the bread a grown man eats in a day? Now, I have grokked that food/eating seems to be a sensitive topic and my wording may sound harsh, but it's just that I am so mystified by some of what I am reading.

Some of what I read on this thread is so restrictive it's unbelievable, unless it's strictly for weight loss or diabetes control, or unless the person eats other carbohydrates (bowl of oatmeal? Serving of potatoes? Bottles of beer?) in the same day, or unless a lot of other, unmentioned food (bacon?) is being eaten. I also wonder if people are drinking any alcohol? That is one carbohydrate that I consciously limit, though not for weight control (alcohol gives me a headache).

And for the runners, what happened to carbohydrate loading? That used to be all the rage, as I recall. Is it bad now?

Limit, no need to avoid. Now, I'm a 30-40 mile a week runner right now, but I eat a large piece of bread daily, broken in half for a sandwich at lunch,

 

[Fedup]

My husband used to eat lots of mashed potatoes, lots of whole grain breads(could be a loaf a day), lots of pasta, wine, etc.. You name it, he enjoyed them. He was a daily runner so weight has not been an issue, and has not been diagnosed with diabetes. He was never diagnosed with high blood pressure nor high cholesterol. In fact I had a copy of his blood works when we applied for life insurance almost 20 years ago. Virtually no change now, some numbers are better.
But starting 5 years ago, we've switched to a more restrictive nutrition diet because he was feeling tired. He is now no longer feeling tired. I checked out almost 10 books on diabetes so that's why I know more about eating to avoid the low and the high. He also eliminated tea and coffee in the afternoon. Only drink them in the morning.
You have to adjust as you age.