Update on Cord Cutting (Cable TV) - 2021 version

Thanks, foxcreek9 and Midpack, That is a relief. I may just try it. Comcast bill has creeped to over $250/mo and I expect initial fiber charges from Centurylink might be quite good. They have had a bad rep around here with their dsl but, it seems people are much happier with their fiber.
 
Well, now begins the real test. We've been playing around with our two Roku devices, Streaming Stick 4K and Ultra LT 4K, with the free services (Pluto TV, Roku). Today, we signed up for Sling Blue, along with their Total TV package, which will cost $61/mo after the one month discount ends. It was the cheapest plan anywhere that gave DW her dozen or so desired channels.

Hopefully, this will work out for DW as our current service, AT&T U-verse, is now costing us $195/mo (includes fees and taxes) to get those desired channels, versus $66/mo total for Sling (includes taxes). After four years of U-verse promos, which as a discount kept getting smaller each year, AT&T declined a promo for us a couple of months ago to continue on U-verse. I really can't wait to drop off their DVR and STB at a local AT&T store and tell them we won't be continuing with AT&T TV services.
 
Just got my notice of the YouTube TV increase. I like YTTV but a 12% increase in one year is:mad: steep.
How about over 3 years? That's better isn't it? Last price increase was June 2020.
 
$73 plus you have to pay extra for 4K? No thanks!

It was $65 plus $20 for 4k and but now they are reducing 4k to $10/mo. So if you had both you will actually pay a couple of bucks less per month.

I don't have 4k as an add-on but is there much 4k content on YTTV?
 
I don't have 4k as an add-on but is there much 4k content on YTTV?

I don't know the answer to this, but even if there is a lot of 4k content, my guess is that the slight improvement in visual quality would be quite difficult for most people to notice. You'd have to sit uncomfortably close to the screen to see any significant difference, and wouldn't the video compression artifacts degrade the picture just a little bit, thus basically "erasing" the extremely fine detail of 4k vs 1080p?
 
You are allowed to share you tube tv with someone so that cuts the cost in half.
 
YTTV will increase from $64.99 to $72.99. Existing subscribers will see the increase on their 4/18 or later bill. Their homepage says new subscribers can get $10 off ($62.99) for 3 months, then $72.99.

This link includes details on price changes to the 4K option.

https://thestreamable.com/news/brea...-increase-base-rate-now-72-99-4k-plan-to-9-99

We had YTTV for a while and I thought that it was an excellent alternative to cable tv. Even at $72.99 it would be 1/2 the cost of cable with the 4 tvs that we have in the house... and as snowbirds it is portable for use at your other home or you can more esily turn it off for those months when you are away.

When they increased from $50 to $65/month in the summer of 2020 I got mad and cancelled the day after the announcement to send them a message that I didn't like the price increase. At the time, I expected to resign after the month that we had already been charged for expired or shortly thereafter.

However, before the month we paid for expired I discovered that we did have OTA at our home despite the various maps saying that we wouldn't so we ended going OTA with some streaming to the side and we have never gone back... but I still think it is a good alternative to cable.
 
Getting as bad as cable.

I will be subscribing for the NHL playoffs, a month or 2, depending on my team.


I just checked Comcast in our area, their price is $141/mo after $10 discount for autopay and 150 hours of recordings (vs YTTV unlimited). Not happy about the price increase but...
 
YTTV will increase from $64.99 to $72.99 ...
...Even at $72.99 it would be 1/2 the cost of cable with the 4 tvs that we have in the house...
I just checked Comcast in our area, their price is $141/mo after $10 discount for autopay and 150 hours of recordings (vs YTTV unlimited). Not happy about the price increase but...

Sounds about right.... $73/$141 = 52%
 
I don't know the answer to this, but even if there is a lot of 4k content, my guess is that the slight improvement in visual quality would be quite difficult for most people to notice. You'd have to sit uncomfortably close to the screen to see any significant difference, and wouldn't the video compression artifacts degrade the picture just a little bit, thus basically "erasing" the extremely fine detail of 4k vs 1080p?

No, with a 4K TV you can definitely tell the difference in quality, even with a 55" TV viewing it at 8 feet away. There is no guesswork involved, you can easily tell 1080p from 2160p.

There is a lot of 4K content on YouTube, most of it from the past 3-4 years. Most content creators with any sort of a decent following don't use anything except 4K video nowadays.
 
No, with a 4K TV you can definitely tell the difference in quality, even with a 55" TV viewing it at 8 feet away. There is no guesswork involved, you can easily tell 1080p from 2160p.

There is a lot of 4K content on YouTube, most of it from the past 3-4 years. Most content creators with any sort of a decent following don't use anything except 4K video nowadays.


Most cable signals aren't even 1080p. They're over-compressed 720p. Even 1080i such as CBS NFL games at 1080i are sharper.

I don't know if the source signals are at least 1080p and cable compresses them or they're 720p from the cable networks.

Or for that matter, the quality of the source signals YouTube TV gets before they do their compression.


As for 4K, Apple TV Plus has best signals.

But to see difference between 4k and 1080p, you have to pause and go up close to it to see the pixels.

Definitely 1080p is softer but the difference is subtle.

The bigger factor is HDR which you often get with 4K streams.
 
There is a lot of 4K content on YouTube, most of it from the past 3-4 years. Most content creators with any sort of a decent following don't use anything except 4K video nowadays.
How much of this 4K content is upscaled from lower resolutions? Even 1080p signals from the streaming services for live TV are upscaled mainly from 720p and 1080i.
 
How much of this 4K content is upscaled from lower resolutions? Even 1080p signals from the streaming services for live TV are upscaled mainly from 720p and 1080i.

I don't think there is any way of knowing short of if the content is more than 3-4 years old, it is probably upscaled.

You can click on the settings gear icon and click on quality and see if there is a 2160p option.
 
No, with a 4K TV you can definitely tell the difference in quality, even with a 55" TV viewing it at 8 feet away. There is no guesswork involved, you can easily tell 1080p from 2160p.

There is a lot of 4K content on YouTube, most of it from the past 3-4 years. Most content creators with any sort of a decent following don't use anything except 4K video nowadays.

I recall a youtube presentation a while back where the guy is showing the pixel size of a 4K image on the wall. Hard to believe this level of detail would be noticeable w/o almost pressing your nose against the screen (slight exaggeration for effect!).

But I did find this site, which seemed fairly well researched. His chart is based on a spreadsheet he made from these sources:

recommended viewing distances for a given screen size – for both flat panels and projectors (based on THX and SMPTE standards)

recommended viewing distances for a given display resolution – 480p, 720p, 1080p/1080i, 1440p, etc (based on Visual Acuity standards)

http://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter/

resolution_chart.png


And that indicates that a 55" @ 1080p is only entering the 'noticeable' range (compared to 720p) at around 8'.

And for 4K (2160p vertical) over 1080p (vertical) you need to be ~ 6' , and ~ 4~5' for getting closer to "full benefit'.

As others have said, what compression your source is using is going to affect this as well.

I guess I can check those numbers on my TV, pretty sure I can switch from 1080 to 720 on some OTA channel (generally less compression than cable).

I was curious and used a drawing program to print a row of black-white-black 'pixels' at 4K and 1080 size. And a solid block that size at 50% transparency, and I had to get to about 6' and 3' to be able to really distinguish the solid from dotted line. And this is stark black-white full contrast in good light. To see a single pixel I had to get about 6' and 3' away, and that's knowing where to look.

-ERD50
 
The problem with comparing with cable is the fact that YTTV doesn't have regional sports anymore. This is a big issue that fouls up the comparison.
 
I just checked Comcast in our area, their price is $141/mo after $10 discount for autopay and 150 hours of recordings (vs YTTV unlimited). Not happy about the price increase but...
Ha. I dropped Comcast when I was paying about $14/mo for "basic" cable. Didn't get that many channels for that, but they were HD until they stopped providing Clear QAM, and I could get the channels I really wanted using an antenna for free in HD with an ATSC tuner in my home theater PC, so bye bye Comcast... at least until I signed back up for internet only access.

For now, I get Peacock for free, but that goes away in a few months - not sure I'll even want to pay $5/mo for that.
 
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The problem with comparing with cable is the fact that YTTV doesn't have regional sports anymore. This is a big issue that fouls up the comparison.

I believe that depends on the region because of the mess with Bally Sports.

Other regional sports networks are still available, like those owned by NBC.

Bally's troubles would affect cable TV in those regions as well, not just YTTV.
 
{A Sling TV review}

Well, after a couple days of trying out Sling Blue plus their Total TV package, our experience so far has been hit and miss. All of DW's desired channels are there. The other priority, video quality, is in the plus category. No video or audio breakups. The video (limited to 1080p) is better on most channels than our current service with AT&T U-verse (limited to 720p/1080i).

The Roku Ultra LT is a bit faster than the Roku Streaming Stick 4K, enough so that if we stay with a streaming service, I likely would get us another Roku Ultra. Our monthly cost w/taxes, if we switch permanently, would be $66/mo vs $195/mo with U-verse (we've been declined a promo twice now since the last one expired late last year). Definitely a big plus to save $129/mo. Even if we added a couple of extra services, like Discovery+, we'll still save over $100/mo.

The general listing of channels in the Sling guide are all over the place. This may not be unique to Sling, but compared to U-verse, it takes a while to get used to. With U-verse, some "common" channels, especially those under the same umbrella (i.e. the Discovery family of channels) tend to be clustered together. With Sling, they are all over the place. This one is a bit of a miss, although if you are staying exclusively in the favorites menu, once set up, this is probably less of a nit.

The favorites in the Sling guide are alphabetized by channel name. This may be a bit better than U-verse's sort by channel number, but it would be nice to be able to set our own sort order. The fact that DW's favorites list is not too long (less than 20 channels), this is probably an even tradeoff.

The DVR, which for us is 200 hours instead of the base 50 hours because we chose the Total TV package, is less than U-verse's 360 hours, but it should be more than enough. Compared to a lot of the other streaming services, Sling's capacity is quite a bit lower, but Sling doesn't have an expiration on the recordings. Most services are 9-12 months. If you've recorded something you can't get anywhere else and isn't repeated, being able to save the recording indefinitely is nice. Doesn't happen all that often. We've kinda neutral on storage and duration.

Recording shows is where Sling gives DW fits. With U-verse, you can pick a show *and* a channel, and only that channel will be searched for that show. With Sling, you can only search for the show title. My DW is notorious for binge-watching a show by recording what's available. The problem is a few shows are being broadcast on more than one channel. She usually sticks with one channel because they'll typically have the shows in episode order when they have several on the same day.

Without a channel filter, some shows will appear many times in the scheduled listing to be recorded over multiple channels. This requires going into the DVR schedule and deleting the extra recordings. This leads to a few more nits. Deleting a specific recording takes several seconds. We are used to this being near instantaneous with U-verse. A miss. Once the recording has been deleted, you are taken back to the top of the DVR scheduled recording list. This requires scrolling down through the list to find the next scheduled recording to delete. Rinse and repeat, and I want to throw the remote at the TV. A definite miss.

Maybe what we're experiencing is common to the streaming services, or maybe some of them are better at it than Sling. DW will muddle through this, if only to pitch U-verse to save some money and for a few other reasons.
 
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Bally's troubles would affect cable TV in those regions as well, not just YTTV.

That's a near future possibility, but not right at the here and now. The fact is YTTV and Hulu+ dropped them 2 years ago and it has been a problem.
 
Without a channel filter, some shows will appear many times in the scheduled listing to be recorded over multiple channels. This requires going into the DVR schedule and deleting the extra recordings. This leads to a few more nits. Deleting a specific recording takes several seconds. We are used to this being near instantaneous with U-verse. A miss. Once the recording has been deleted, you are taken back to the top of the DVR scheduled recording list. This requires scrolling down through the list to find the next scheduled recording to delete. Rinse and repeat, and I want to throw the remote at the TV. A definite miss.

Maybe what we're experiencing is common to the streaming services, or maybe some of them are better at it than Sling. DW will muddle through this, if only to pitch U-verse to save some money and for a few other reasons.

What you are seeing is how all the "cloud" operators work. I complained bitterly on this sub for about 2 years how I didn't like these behaviors. I especially didn't like the time delay for deleting, changing channels, and lack of full sized FF or reverse.

Eventually, I pushed through it because the cost savings was so large. I got used to the sub-optimal UI experience.

Simply put, there's no substitute for having a hard drive with recordings right there at your TV, and having a smart box that can offload some functions that are done at a server 5,000 miles away (which slows cloud services).

I'm fine with it now. Keep giving it a chance and see how it works for you over time. It worked for me, and remember the cost savings!
 
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