Fantastic Vaccine Results in US

[ivinsfan]

Well here's a depressing story. Just as we are fully vaccinated and wanting to go to in person church, our church dropped all mask wearing mandates.


The gentleman who seconded the motion to drop mask wearing, spend 10 plus days in hospital, 4 weeks on supplemental O2 and almost died from COVID. And his brother got Covid and ended up in ICU, Mom 92 caught Covid and ended up in the hospital..At least 5 people in his family have had Covid, but I guess that's a minor detail. I'm so annoyed!!!!


If people were getting vaccinated this wouldn't be a problem. I understand technically I'm probably OK to attend church but this didn't put me in a churchy mood.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Well here's a depressing story. Just as we are fully vaccinated and wanting to go to in person church, our church dropped all mask wearing mandates.


The gentleman who seconded the motion to drop mask wearing, spend 10 plus days in hospital, 4 weeks on supplemental O2 and almost died from COVID. And his brother got Covid and ended up in ICU, Mom 92 caught Covid and ended up in the hospital..At least 5 people in his family have had Covid, but I guess that's a minor detail. I'm so annoyed!!!!

Maybe time to find a new church? There are plenty out there to chose from.

 

[ivinsfan]

Maybe time to find a new church? There are plenty out there to chose from.

Well people are pretty much the same everywhere, sadly. The whole thing is mind boggling as to people that actually had severe Covid don't want to take every possible precaution to keep others from the same fate.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Well people are pretty much the same everywhere, sadly.

Good point. Hopefully the numbers will continue to decline and the masks can prudently put away.

 

[audreyh1]

Well people are pretty much the same everywhere, sadly. The whole thing is mind boggling as to people that actually had severe Covid don't want to take every possible precaution to keep others from the same fate.

I hear ya!

Gosh, in a church service fellowship, worship, etc., the least you can go is try to protect others present. At least until most are vaccinated. Otherwise dropping simple precautions forces the most vulnerable to stay away. Not very welcoming!

And you cannot yet claim the vulnerable are already vaccinated. Maybe in a couple of months that will be true.

 

[Sojourner]

It's amazing to me how fear of the unknown outweighs fear of the known in many people. I tell my patients who are debating getting the vaccine that they get to choose between the unlikely possibility of long-term adverse effects of the vaccine or known severe long-term effects of the virus. To me, it's a no-brainer.

And what I find really interesting is that the same group of people who have complained most loudly about government shut downs and about having to wear masks, etc. are the same ones refusing the vaccines. Well, if you don't like the pandemic, do your part to help end it. Refusing to vaccinate, and even worse, convincing others not to get vaccinated, is doing quite the opposite. Unfortunately, humans are largely stupid and selfish...

+1000

One of the most depressing things about the COVID pandemic is how starkly it has demonstrated the severe lack of critical, rational thinking skills among certain subsets of the population... and how those subsets aren't nearly as small in size as I would have expected or hoped.

 

[RAE]

FWIW: The person giving me the shot did not and will not get the vaccine.

There are lots of different reasons why some people do not want the vaccine. I don't make any judgments about it..........each of us has to decide for ourselves if we want it or not, based on our individual situation. Some people want to label everyone who won't get the vaccine a crazy anti-vaxxer, but I won't do that (and I don't believe it is accurate, either).

 

[RAE]

It's amazing to me how fear of the unknown outweighs fear of the known in many people. I tell my patients who are debating getting the vaccine that they get to choose between the unlikely possibility of long-term adverse effects of the vaccine or known severe long-term effects of the virus. To me, it's a no-brainer.

I don't want to get into a debate about vaccines, but I don't think it is that simple. Yes, some people who get the virus get very sick, and may have long-term effects, but those people are still in the minority. A majority of people who have gotten seriously ill have one or more chronic health issues that likely contributed to their poor outcome. I'm sure you have read about those chronic issues and their link to severe COVID..............obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, etc.. I do realize that some people who are reasonably healthy and do not have chronic health issues have also gotten very sick with COVID, but if you look at the numbers, they are definitely very much in the minority.


So, for someone in very good health, with a strong immune system, I don't think the risk of getting extremely sick with COVID is high. I actually know quite a few people who have had COVID, and have gotten through it with either very mild symptoms, or symptoms that lasted a week or so, with no lingering issues. I'm not saying that most people should not get vaccinated, because I think most people probably should (especially considering the health status of the average middle-age to older American, which is not all that great). But I do not think it is a "no brainer" that EVERYONE should.

 

[Chris7]

Maybe time to find a new church? There are plenty out there to chose from.

I have had a similar experience and sadly, it is very difficult to find a church that a percentage of people don't behave the same way.



Two of my employees plus me have gotten our first shot. One came down with COVID and have had a heck of a time with it. They were out of work for 2-weeks and although they are back, you can tell there are lingering affects. One of my employees believes it is a big conspiracy. Ugh!


cd :O)

 

[anethum]

Despite the real world 90% effectiveness of 2 doses of both the Pfizer & Moderna vaccines announced by the CDC following their study of 4,000 essential workers, CDC Director Walensky expressed today a feeling of "impending doom" due to rising caseloads in the USA. Daily cases, hospitalizations, and deaths, are all increasing again, despite more and more people getting vaccinated every day.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/29/coronavirus-covid-live-updates-us/

"The recent U.S. seven-day average, at just under 60,000 daily cases, is a 10 percent increase vs. the prior seven-day period. Hospitalizations have risen, too. The seven-day average death rate, which typically lags behind cases and hospitalizations, increased by 3 percent, Walensky said."

=================================

It could be due to people engaging in more risky behavior now, and it could also be due to an increased presence of variants which spread more easily. Or both. And the variants could also be more likely to cause severe illness.

 

[audreyh1]

So, for someone in very good health, with a strong immune system, I don't think the risk of getting extremely sick with COVID is high. I actually know quite a few people who have had COVID, and have gotten through it with either very mild symptoms, or symptoms that lasted a week or so, with no lingering issues. I'm not saying that most people should not get vaccinated, because I think most people probably should (especially considering the health status of the average middle-age to older American, which is not all that great). But I do not think it is a "no brainer" that EVERYONE should.

I think it's an issue of having continued spread go on for a very long time if there is a large % of the population unvaccinated (and potentially even more malicious variants show up). I don't know what to say to a young person who believes catching covid is a very low health risk to them, and therefore the vaccine could perhaps be a higher risk. Do they take that unknown vaccine risk to help stop covid spreading? They don't believe they are doing it to protect themselves in this case, but to benefit others.

 

[Gumby]

I don't want to get into a debate about vaccines, but I don't think it is that simple. Yes, some people who get the virus get very sick, and may have long-term effects, but those people are still in the minority. A majority of people who have gotten seriously ill have one or more chronic health issues that likely contributed to their poor outcome. I'm sure you have read about those chronic issues and their link to severe COVID..............obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, etc.. I do realize that some people who are reasonably healthy and do not have chronic health issues have also gotten very sick with COVID, but if you look at the numbers, they are definitely very much in the minority.


So, for someone in very good health, with a strong immune system, I don't think the risk of getting extremely sick with COVID is high. I actually know quite a few people who have had COVID, and have gotten through it with either very mild symptoms, or symptoms that lasted a week or so, with no lingering issues. I'm not saying that most people should not get vaccinated, because I think most people probably should (especially considering the health status of the average middle-age to older American, which is not all that great). But I do not think it is a "no brainer" that EVERYONE should.

That's a remarkably solipsistic view. Getting the vaccine does more than protect my health. It also prevents me from spreading COVID to others who may not fare as well should they contract it. Stopping the pandemic requires each of us to do our part by taking precautions and getting vaccinated. Sadly, some have politicized this entire thing for their own ends.

 

[jollystomper]

I don't want to get into a debate about vaccines, but I don't think it is that simple. Yes, some people who get the virus get very sick, and may have long-term effects, but those people are still in the minority. A majority of people who have gotten seriously ill have one or more chronic health issues that likely contributed to their poor outcome. I'm sure you have read about those chronic issues and their link to severe COVID..............obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, etc.. I do realize that some people who are reasonably healthy and do not have chronic health issues have also gotten very sick with COVID, but if you look at the numbers, they are definitely very much in the minority.


So, for someone in very good health, with a strong immune system, I don't think the risk of getting extremely sick with COVID is high. I actually know quite a few people who have had COVID, and have gotten through it with either very mild symptoms, or symptoms that lasted a week or so, with no lingering issues. I'm not saying that most people should not get vaccinated, because I think most people probably should (especially considering the health status of the average middle-age to older American, which is not all that great). But I do not think it is a "no brainer" that EVERYONE should.

I tend to lean towards this view. I just remember, back in the May/June timeframe, so many saying how the vaccine trials were being "rushed", no way they would take a vaccine that was approved in less than 18-24 months, and anyone who did take it must be crazy and would danger their health. Now many of those are suddenly saying if you do not take it you must be crazy and are endangering your health - perhaps not realizing that sometimes people cling to the first impression those with influence proclaim.

 

[Gumby]

I tend to lean towards this view. I just remember, back in the May/June timeframe, so many saying how the vaccine trials were being "rushed", no way they would take a vaccine that was approved in less than 18-24 months, and anyone who did take it must be crazy and would danger their health. Now many of those are suddenly saying if you do not take it you must be crazy and are endangering your health - perhaps not realizing that sometimes people cling to the first impression those with influence proclaim.

I thought those people were wrong last summer. I'm too lazy to go find it, but I recall at the time posting here something along the lines of "Just because it hasn't been done that fast, doesn't mean it can't be done that fast."

 

[braumeister]

for someone in very good health, with a strong immune system, I don't think the risk of getting extremely sick with COVID is high. I actually know quite a few people who have had COVID, and have gotten through it with either very mild symptoms, or symptoms that lasted a week or so, with no lingering issues.

The problem is that for every anecdote like yours there are other anecdotes about extremely fit people in excellent health getting COVID leading to a swift death.

 

[Alan]

Worldwide 548 million doses have been given, 148 million in the USA. Any safety issues would have been apparent by now.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Worldwide 548 million doses have been given, 148 million in the USA. Any safety issues would have been apparent by now.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/

Unless they don't show themselves until 5 years post vaccination. I am NOT saying that it will happen, but just to illustrate that doubt can ALWAYS be interjected into a "pro" argument making it more difficult to convince people that vaccination is the right idea. And like so many other things in life...we don't know what we don't know. The CDC page reflects that line of thought over and over and over again.

 

[explanade]

Worldwide 548 million doses have been given, 148 million in the USA. Any safety issues would have been apparent by now.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/

Unless they don't show themselves until 5 years post vaccination. I am NOT saying that it will happen, but just to illustrate that doubt can ALWAYS be interjected into a "pro" argument making it more difficult to convince people that vaccination is the right idea. And like so many other things in life...we don't know what we don't know. The CDC page reflects that line of thought over and over and over again.

Even if there turns out to be long-term issues, I think few people are going to regret getting vaccinated now.

I would imagine people had similar approach to the polio vaccines -- what if the cure turns out to be worse than the disease?

You can see that people are antsy to get back to normal, including a lot of people who haven't been vaccinated.


They're working on cancer vaccines, including using the mRNA technology. So if and when those become available, you think people with cancer or a family history of cancer are going to be worrying about potential long-term issues from the vaccine?

Sure worry, but probably not enough to not take them.

 

[jollystomper]

The problem is that for every anecdote like yours there are other anecdotes about extremely fit people in excellent health getting COVID leading to a swift death.

In which case we move beyond anecdotes and turn to data studies like this one (https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(20)31130-7/fulltext) that indicate the anecdotes of fit people dying from COVID are more the exception than the rule:

Results
We identified 246 patients (age, 59±12 years; 42% male; 75% black race) who had an exercise test and tested positive for SARS-CoV-2. Among these, 89 (36%) were hospitalized. Peak METs were significantly lower (P<.001) among patients who were hospitalized (6.7±2.8) compared with those not hospitalized (8.0±2.4). Peak METs were inversely associated with the likelihood of hospitalization in unadjusted (odds ratio, 0.83; 95% CI, 0.74-0.92) and adjusted models (odds ratio, 0.87; 95% CI, 0.76-0.99).

Conclusion
Maximal exercise capacity is independently and inversely associated with the likelihood of hospitalization due to COVID-19. These data further support the important relationship between cardiorespiratory fitness and health outcomes. Future studies are needed to determine whether improving maximal exercise capacity is associated with lower risk of complications due to viral infections, such as COVID-19.

The key, of course is the definition of "fit". For many, fitness is defined as "looking good on the beach in beachwear" fit. That can have zero relationship to being fit in cardiovascular terms.

I am feeling more and more, given that so many of the factors that may be related to how the body fights the virus are not visible to the eye (like high blood pressure, vitamin deficiencies, etc.) that a free annual physical with bloodwork and DNA workup should be [-]mandatory[/-] available in the U.S. for everyone once they turn 18, to make individuals aware of their susceptibility to those things as soon as possible. Of course, this would likely be met with cries of privacy violations.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Even if there turns out to be long-term issues, I think few people are going to regret getting vaccinated now.

I would imagine people had similar approach to the polio vaccines -- what if the cure turns out to be worse than the disease?

You can see that people are antsy to get back to normal, including a lot of people who haven't been vaccinated.


They're working on cancer vaccines, including using the mRNA technology. So if and when those become available, you think people with cancer or a family history of cancer are going to be worrying about potential long-term issues from the vaccine?

Sure worry, but probably not enough to not take them.

Don't shoot the messenger. I am saying that there will ALWAYS be doubters and the fact remains that we DO NOT know everything to know about COVID or the vaccines. That is a fact.

Personally, I was quite happy to take the vaccine...even after seeing the issues with the anthrax vaccine that was forced upon us service members. I *should* have been a doubter, but I have read the available science articles and studies and felt that the reward far outweighed the risk. Others only get their "information" from social media (and a lot of group think) and well...we know how that goes.

 

[ivinsfan]

In which case we move beyond anecdotes and turn to data studies like this one (https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(20)31130-7/fulltext) that indicate the anecdotes of fit people dying from COVID are more the exception than the rule:

The key, of course is the definition of "fit". For many, fitness is defined as "looking good on the beach in beachwear" fit. That can have zero relationship to being fit in cardiovascular terms.

I am feeling more and more, given that so many of the factors that may be related to how the body fights the virus are not visible to the eye (like high blood pressure, vitamin deficiencies, etc.) that a free annual physical with bloodwork and DNA workup should be [-]mandatory[/-] available in the U.S. for everyone once they turn 18, to make individuals aware of their susceptibility to those things as soon as possible. Of course, this would likely be met with cries of privacy violations.

Why not just have everyone over 18 get vaccinated? Bloodwork and a DNA workup still won't prevent you from catching Covid..

 

[dirtbiker]

I don't want to get into a debate about vaccines, but I don't think it is that simple. Yes, some people who get the virus get very sick, and may have long-term effects, but those people are still in the minority. A majority of people who have gotten seriously ill have one or more chronic health issues that likely contributed to their poor outcome. I'm sure you have read about those chronic issues and their link to severe COVID..............obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, etc.. I do realize that some people who are reasonably healthy and do not have chronic health issues have also gotten very sick with COVID, but if you look at the numbers, they are definitely very much in the minority.


So, for someone in very good health, with a strong immune system, I don't think the risk of getting extremely sick with COVID is high. I actually know quite a few people who have had COVID, and have gotten through it with either very mild symptoms, or symptoms that lasted a week or so, with no lingering issues. I'm not saying that most people should not get vaccinated, because I think most people probably should (especially considering the health status of the average middle-age to older American, which is not all that great). But I do not think it is a "no brainer" that EVERYONE should.

It actually IS that simple. We do not know of any long-term side effects of the vaccines, nor do we have any reasonable expectations that there will be long-term side effects. We DO know there are long-term side effects of the virus. As with ALL drug/vaccine/illness adverse effects, not everyone gets them.

I appreciate that you know a few people who have had Covid without lingering side effects. However, I'd like to wager that, haven taken care of hundreds of Covid patients now, and am still treating long-term effects of dozens, that I probably have a bit more experience in this than you do. Hearing a story about Covid that starts with "Actually I know someone" or "Actually I know a few people" is more tiring than you'll probably ever know.

Quite frankly though, it's more about beating this pandemic and doing more than just what is best for you as an individual. Young, healthy people should be thinking about the sick and elderly in addition to themselves. If they are low risk for getting a severe form of the disease or long-term affects from the disease, why on Earth would they fear long-term effects of the vaccine?

 

[Calico]

It actually IS that simple. We do not know of any long-term side effects of the vaccines, nor do we have any reasonable expectations that there will be long-term side effects. We DO know there are long-term side effects of the virus. As with ALL drug/vaccine/illness adverse effects, not everyone gets them.

I appreciate that you know a few people who have had Covid without lingering side effects. However, I'd like to wager that, haven taken care of hundreds of Covid patients now, and am still treating long-term effects of dozens, that I probably have a bit more experience in this than you do. Hearing a story about Covid that starts with "Actually I know someone" or "Actually I know a few people" is more tiring than you'll probably ever know.

Quite frankly though, it's more about beating this pandemic and doing more than just what is best for you as an individual. Young, healthy people should be thinking about the sick and elderly in addition to themselves. If they are low risk for getting a severe form of the disease or long-term affects from the disease, why on Earth would they fear long-term effects of the vaccine?

+1000

 

[Aerides]

mod note: We are not going to accept continued debate on "how bad is Covid really" in this thread or any other.

 

[Another Reader]

It actually IS that simple. We do not know of any long-term side effects of the vaccines, nor do we have any reasonable expectations that there will be long-term side effects. We DO know there are long-term side effects of the virus. As with ALL drug/vaccine/illness adverse effects, not everyone gets them.

I appreciate that you know a few people who have had Covid without lingering side effects. However, I'd like to wager that, haven taken care of hundreds of Covid patients now, and am still treating long-term effects of dozens, that I probably have a bit more experience in this than you do. Hearing a story about Covid that starts with "Actually I know someone" or "Actually I know a few people" is more tiring than you'll probably ever know.

Quite frankly though, it's more about beating this pandemic and doing more than just what is best for you as an individual. Young, healthy people should be thinking about the sick and elderly in addition to themselves. If they are low risk for getting a severe form of the disease or long-term affects from the disease, why on Earth would they fear long-term effects of the vaccine?

Curious how many Long Covid patients you are seeing and how old and healthy they are? The support groups are full of young, previously healthy and athletic people with some nasty sequelae. The Body Politic group did a patient-led survey that showed the majority of people that participated were younger and healthy before getting Covid.