A year later...another fence installation to deal with

[RobbieB]

I saw the reason for the fence, the resident canine happily sniffing around.

 

[omni550]

The mystery stake is the intersection of 116, 115 and your lot.

Yup...that's it!

So happy I've located both MY corner stake and that "mystery stake" at the intersection of all 3 lots. At least now there [hopefully] won't be a need to call in a surveyor. I just need to convince the new neighbor that their fence guy made a mistake putting a portion of their fence on my property.

omni

 

[GalaxyBoy]

Probably all an honest mistake, or carelessness. I observed a similar mistake with a fence behind a house I owned many years ago, also involving odd-shaped lots due to a cul-de-sac. It was clear to me the fence was built to the wrong stake. However, since it didn't involve my property and the party whose property was encroached upon was such an a$$hat to me, I kept that knowledge to myself. Looking at Google Earth recently, it appeared that fence is still there.

 

[pb4uski]

Yup...that's it!

So happy I've located both MY corner stake and that "mystery stake" at the intersection of all 3 lots. At least now there [hopefully] won't be a need to call in a surveyor. I just need to convince the new neighbor that their fence guy made a mistake putting a portion of their fence on my property.

omni

Let us know how the discussion with the owner(s) of lot 115 goes.

 

[Texas Proud]

Yup...that's it!

So happy I've located both MY corner stake and that "mystery stake" at the intersection of all 3 lots. At least now there [hopefully] won't be a need to call in a surveyor. I just need to convince the new neighbor that their fence guy made a mistake putting a portion of their fence on my property.

omni

Just curious... is that mystery stake on the line of your lot? and your lot continues a few feet behind another?

From the drawing that you had earlier there is not way to see such a small distance.... and I would think that all 3 lots would come to one point and your corner stake, not a few feet offset....

 

[Sunset]

Just curious... is that mystery stake on the line of your lot? and your lot continues a few feet behind another?

From the drawing that you had earlier there is not way to see such a small distance.... and I would think that all 3 lots would come to one point and your corner stake, not a few feet offset....

+1
Agree the survey stake must be the corner intersection of 2 and probably all 3 lots.
The mystery metal rod could be anything

 

[Texas Proud]

Just curious... is that mystery stake on the line of your lot? and your lot continues a few feet behind another?

From the drawing that you had earlier there is not way to see such a small distance.... and I would think that all 3 lots would come to one point and your corner stake, not a few feet offset....

OK... I can see that your stake looks to be a few feet past the intersection of all 3... is there a scale you can look at and see how many feet the intersection is from the corner? It might be the mystery stake...


Any way you look at it, the fence is on your property....

 

[omni550]

OK... I can see that your stake looks to be a few feet past the intersection of all 3... is there a scale you can look at and see how many feet the intersection is from the corner? It might be the mystery stake...


Any way you look at it, the fence is on your property....

Here's a photo I just took. My yellow-capped corner stake and the barely visible mystery stake ("?" in the photo) are approx. 27" apart (tough to position/balance the tape as there is a large root jutting up from the ground) and the new fence is another ~9" past the mystery stake.

Per the survey (original survey scale is 1" = 30'), the distance from my corner stake to the intersection where lots 121, 115 & 116 meet is ~1/16"-3/32" (tough to measure btw) on the survey...so, approx. 22.5" - 33.75" in real life. Therefore, this mystery stake at ~27" from my corner stake is very likely the intersection of the 3 lots 121, 115, and 116, as was surmised earlier.

It appears as though the fence guy installed the fence ~9 inches inboard from the side lot line (thus favoring lot 116) and the rear fence corner post ~9.5 feet onto my lot.

omni

 

[REattempt]

Why the delay in talking to the neighbor?

 

[omni550]

Why the delay in talking to the neighbor?

Neighbor has not been home when I stopped by.
omni

 

[Texas Proud]

Here's a photo I just took. My yellow-capped corner stake and the barely visible mystery stake ("?" in the photo) are approx. 27" apart (tough to position/balance the tape as there is a large root jutting up from the ground) and the new fence is another ~9" past the mystery stake.

Per the survey (original survey scale is 1" = 30'), the distance from my corner stake to the intersection where lots 121, 115 & 116 meet is ~1/16"-3/32" (tough to measure btw) on the survey...so, approx. 22.5" - 33.75" in real life. Therefore, this mystery stake at ~27" from my corner stake is very likely the intersection of the 3 lots 121, 115, and 116, as was surmised earlier.

It appears as though the fence guy installed the fence ~9 inches inboard from the side lot line (thus favoring lot 116) and the rear fence corner post ~9.5 feet onto my lot.

omni

Yep, all info points to the mystery stake being where the fence should be... I would bet that some other survey put that in...


There should be no problem whenever you do get to talk to them... it should be easy to understand even by a novice...

 

[omni550]

There should be no problem whenever you do get to talk to them... it should be easy to understand even by a novice...

I stopped at the township building office this afternoon. After reviewing the plat lines in their records and my sketch of the new fence's location on my property survey*, the clerk agreed that the fence company likely made a mistake putting the corner of the fence on my lot. They are sending out a building inspector in the next day or two to check out the fence location.

On my way home, I saw that the neighbor's cars were in their driveway. I knocked on their door, introduced myself as their backyard neighbor, and mentioned that it appears as though their fence guy made an error in installing part of the fence on my property and I wanted to give them a 'heads up' that the township building inspector would be out in the next day or so to check. The husband asked how far onto my property? I said 9.5 ft. He sort of snorted...and asked that I accompany him out back to look around. He met me out in the yard. I handed him a copy of my survey, and showed him where my yellow stakes are. He asked me where the public utilities right of way was located and tried arguing with me that it would be 'straight' (in line with his new fence) instead of angled like my property line, even after I showed him the utility boxes in the back corner on my lot and in the back of lot 120 -- and that the right of way would connect between the two. He handed me back my survey (even though I said he could keep it) and as he walked away, asked me why I didn't tell him earlier. (I guess this issue is my fault.)

I'm sure glad I got the township involved as he didn't seem willing to accept that his fence was on my property....even though "it should be easy to understand even by a novice..."


*BTW, the clerk at the building dept. told me that no surveys have been required with home purchases in the township since 2000 "as they cost so much." Yikes! I can foresee all sorts of boundary disputes within the township down the road.

omni

 

[pb4uski]

His reaction was probably just "shooting the messenger" ... hopefully after the neighbor has had a chance to digest the situation and do his own research then he'll come around... if not then the town can hopefully step in and be the bad guy.

 

[Texas Proud]

I stopped at the township building office this afternoon. After reviewing the plat lines in their records and my sketch of the new fence's location on my property survey*, the clerk agreed that the fence company likely made a mistake putting the corner of the fence on my lot. They are sending out a building inspector in the next day or two to check out the fence location.

On my way home, I saw that the neighbor's cars were in their driveway. I knocked on their door, introduced myself as their backyard neighbor, and mentioned that it appears as though their fence guy made an error in installing part of the fence on my property and I wanted to give them a 'heads up' that the township building inspector would be out in the next day or so to check. The husband asked how far onto my property? I said 9.5 ft. He sort of snorted...and asked that I accompany him out back to look around. He met me out in the yard. I handed him a copy of my survey, and showed him where my yellow stakes are. He asked me where the public utilities right of way was located and tried arguing with me that it would be 'straight' (in line with his new fence) instead of angled like my property line, even after I showed him the utility boxes in the back corner on my lot and in the back of lot 120 -- and that the right of way would connect between the two. He handed me back my survey (even though I said he could keep it) and as he walked away, asked me why I didn't tell him earlier. (I guess this issue is my fault.)

I'm sure glad I got the township involved as he didn't seem willing to accept that his fence was on my property....even though "it should be easy to understand even by a novice..."


*BTW, the clerk at the building dept. told me that no surveys have been required with home purchases in the township since 2000 "as they cost so much." Yikes! I can foresee all sorts of boundary disputes within the township down the road.

omni

From your description he understood perfectly....

 

[haha]

I stopped at the township building office this afternoon. After reviewing the plat lines in their records and my sketch of the new fence's location on my property survey*, the clerk agreed that the fence company likely made a mistake putting the corner of the fence on my lot. They are sending out a building inspector in the next day or two to check out the fence location.

On my way home, I saw that the neighbor's cars were in their driveway. I knocked on their door, introduced myself as their backyard neighbor, and mentioned that it appears as though their fence guy made an error in installing part of the fence on my property and I wanted to give them a 'heads up' that the township building inspector would be out in the next day or so to check. The husband asked how far onto my property? I said 9.5 ft. He sort of snorted...and asked that I accompany him out back to look around. He met me out in the yard. I handed him a copy of my survey, and showed him where my yellow stakes are. He asked me where the public utilities right of way was located and tried arguing with me that it would be 'straight' (in line with his new fence) instead of angled like my property line, even after I showed him the utility boxes in the back corner on my lot and in the back of lot 120 -- and that the right of way would connect between the two. He handed me back my survey (even though I said he could keep it) and as he walked away, asked me why I didn't tell him earlier. (I guess this issue is my fault.)

I'm sure glad I got the township involved as he didn't seem willing to accept that his fence was on my property....even though "it should be easy to understand even by a novice..."


*BTW, the clerk at the building dept. told me that no surveys have been required with home purchases in the township since 2000 "as they cost so much." Yikes! I can foresee all sorts of boundary disputes within the township down the road.

omni

I am not at all surprised. Very few people are likely to say, oh sure, I'll move my fence, spend money, and lose land I think is mine. I have been through this crap, and generally people will not see the logic of anything that leads to them losing. And you have just fingered yourself as that person who sicced the government on him.

Ha

 

[omni550]

I am not at all surprised. Very few people are likely to say, oh sure, I'll move my fence, spend money, and lose land I think is mine. I have been through this crap, and generally people will not see the logic of anything that leads to them losing. And you have just fingered yourself as that person who sicced the government on him.

Ha

Had I not spoken to him today, it would be quite obvious who sic'd the government on him, as I'm sure the building inspector will show up with my survey in hand (as the clerk made a copy of it)....and my lot is the only one impacted by his fence encroachment.

If the inspector does not manage to convince him to move his fence, I would need to take him to court, as it's my understanding there's no enforcement 'teeth' from the building inspector.

omni

 

[Texas Proud]

Had I not spoken to him today, it would be quite obvious who sic'd the government on him, as I'm sure the building inspector will show up with my survey in hand (as the clerk made a copy of it)....and my lot is the only one impacted by his fence encroachment.

If the inspector does not manage to convince him to move his fence, I would need to take him to court, as it's my understanding there's no enforcement 'teeth' from the building inspector.

omni

I would tend to agree as this is not a building code violation.... it is a civil matter...


I know when a contractor ripped off my sister the police were not interested at all... then heard he ripped off her neighbor... still not... as he had done 'something' in her house... it was only when 4 more people came and said he took deposits and skipped that they decided it was a crime... then again, he moved to Florida and nothing ever happened...

 

[meierlde]

*BTW, the clerk at the building dept. told me that no surveys have been required with home purchases in the township since 2000 "as they cost so much." Yikes! I can foresee all sorts of boundary disputes within the township down the road.

omni

I thought surveys were required by mortgage companies not government. My sister is re-fing her house and they need a survey. The survey is to show the mortgage company that the house they are making a loan on actually is where it is supposed to be.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Can’t you move the fence off your property?

 

[omni550]

I thought surveys were required by mortgage companies not government. My sister is re-fing her house and they need a survey. The survey is to show the mortgage company that the house they are making a loan on actually is where it is supposed to be.

That's what I thought..it seemed like each time I refinanced my home (as interest rates dropped), they performed another survey. That's why I assumed these new neighbors would have a survey, too. But the clerk said, "nope....not since 2000...as the cost of a survey is high."

(It didn't sound right to me....as there are so many fees (high and not-so-high) when purchasing a house....and no entity seems particularly concerned about the fees charged.)

Perhaps the neighbors bought the house for cash (no mortgage), but I'm guessing not. From my online research today: husband and wife are both local public school teachers, it's a second marriage, he had 2 sons from the first marriage (now in their early 20s), and they've had a son together who looked to be about 8. He's 47, she's in her mid-30s.

----

Just had another thought...perhaps the clerk thought I meant that they neighbor should have a lot survey as a survey is required by the township as part of the securing a permit process. And it is THIS requirement that has been eliminated as of 2000 by the township. <-- THIS makes more sense.

omni

 

[omni550]

Can’t you move the fence off your property?

I suppose I could, as it is definitely a case of encroachment and trespassing.

Although I'd prefer to have the neighbors remove it, as it is their fence.

omni

 

[Bestwifeever]

I suppose I could, as it is definitely a case of encroachment and trespassing.

Although I'd prefer to have the neighbors remove it, as it is their fence.

omni

Oh yes, definitely. Crossing my fingers for you!

 

[MissMolly]

I thought surveys were required by mortgage companies not government. My sister is re-fing her house and they need a survey. The survey is to show the mortgage company that the house they are making a loan on actually is where it is supposed to be.

Surveys have not been required by mortgage companies for years now. I don't remember the exact year they stopped requiring them on all loans but 2000 would not be an unreasonable guess.

 

[Texas Proud]

When we purchased our home a survey was required... I still have it somewhere...


When we did a refi, they accepted the one we had as it was not that old... but still required one...

 

[tps7742]

What an experience you have had to deal with on your property boundaries, wow. Good fences make good neighbors in the long run.