final expense insurance

[Monterey298sc]

Can I ask why you don’t want your wife , kids and friends celebrate your life. ?

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

Honestly, this is one thing we simply do not worry about. Let the estate take care of it.

That's our approach. And as you said in another post, you can spell out your wishes in a directive or letter of instruction, although since those aren't binding anyway, we're just relying on having discussions with family members. Of course, I think my approach is easiest: funerals are for the living, since the dead are, you know, dead, so while I prefer cremation, I am fine with whatever the surviving family member(s) decide to do. And we expect to leave plenty of money for our final disposition and a memorial party/service, so we don't see the point in insurance or pre-paying, since we're trying to leave it flexible anyway.

I've told my wife that I'd like for her to donate whatever can be used of me for transplantation or medical science, and after that she can dispose of what's left in a compost pile for all I care. But more importantly, if she decides even after I'm dead that something else would comfort her and our child more, she should know that I want her to do that instead, whatever it is. But we're all fairly practical, utilitarian atheists, so that probably won't change much.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Can I ask why you don’t want your wife , kids and friends celebrate your life. ?

We have no heirs, or direct family locally. Anyway, we do not want people looking and kissing our remains when we are gone. We have discussed this at great length. Funerals are for the benefit of the living not the dead, if they want to celebrate, then they can do so, but cannot use our remains in the process.

One is supposed to respect the wishes of the dead, that is why we write them down. If we die together, our executer is instructed to dispose of our remains before informing family members. He is a good friend and will do just that.

 

[Monterey298sc]

Just to let you know, in our state the family has the power of the decision. Not the deceased. And no the family does not have to abide by your wishes. I meet family’s all the time that change the pre-arrangements of the deceased to fill there needs, not the deceased. Also children, or blood family overrules a friend when it comes to cremation.
I fact a family member is required to sign for the cremation. Not a friend.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Just to let you know, in our state the family has the power of the decision. Not the deceased. And no the family does not have to abide by your wishes. I meet family’s all the time that change the pre-arrangements of the deceased to fill there needs, not the deceased.

That is sad, but good to know, thanks for educating us. We have it covered. If they do not follow our directive and honor our wishes, they will be removed from the will.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

We have no heirs, or direct family locally. Anyway, we do not want people looking and kissing our remains when we are gone. We have discussed this at great length. Funerals are for the benefit of the living not the dead, if they want to celebrate, then they can do so, but cannot use our remains in the process.

One is supposed to respect the wishes of the dead, that is why we write them down. If we die together, our executer is instructed to dispose of our remains before informing family members. He is a good friend and will do just that.

This x1000. If people knew what the embalming process actually involved, they might not be so keen on having that done to their own (or loved ones) remains. Not only to mention, it's really not a great environmental choice.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

This x1000. If people knew what the embalming process actually involved, they might not be so keen on having that done to their own (or loved ones) remains. Not only to mention, it's really not a great environmental choice.

Another option is to convert to Judaism or Muslim as they prohibit embalming unless it is state law.

Sorry, I am trying to bring a different lighter light to the conversation. I find the fact that others prompted by a Funeral service can override a deceased dyeing wishes to be unethical and very tasteful IOHO.

 

[ncbill]

Embalming, to protect public health and funeral liabilities. People kiss a deceased all the time.

Not after they're picked up shortly after death by the funeral home & held the minimum time required before cremation.

 

[youbet]

Yes, there are crooks in every industry. If the steal preneed
Money, they go to jail.
We are a family independent funeral home and since the money is with an insurance company, NOT in our accounts. You can move anywhere and a funeral home in your home town will provide the service and claim the money with insurance Co. So simple. 19,000 funeral homes in the US.

Actually, "so simple" would be simply setting aside $10k in an interest bearing account which your representative taps when you die. I can't see any advantage to turning the money over to someone else with the exception of folks going on Medicaid for LTC.

 

[youbet]

When the time came, it worked out great. As a test for the funeral home, we never mentioned that he had a prepaid plan upfront. When we met with the funeral home, they had everything laid out showing what he had prepaid 25 years earlier. He had a very nice funeral/burial at a cost of nearly 50% less than if we'd had paid for it today. It was a very simple process. We added a few extra items that we wanted.

That was convenient, but it was no bargain. Saving only 50% after they held your money for 25 years was a financial rip-off.

We used a pre-pay arrangement for MIL before she switched from private pay to Medicaid at the nursing home since that was an allowed expenditure under Medicaid look-back rules. But, otherwise, would never consider doing it. There are other ways to get nearly the same convenience for your survivors without the expense of receiving a low return on your money for years.

 

[youbet]

Honestly, this is one thing we simply do not worry about. Let the estate take care of it.

We don't really worry about it either. Our reason, and I suppose many here would agree, is that final expenses would not be considered significant in terms of the resources available to the survivor(s).

My only reason for having arrangements so that DW or my son (depending on who is left) have access to some cash to take care of immediate expenses regarding my death is for their convenience.

I guess one benefit of a life of LBYM and achieving FIRE is that $10 - $20k of final expenses isn't something to be fretted over......... I see these advertisements on TV where an insurance company is trying to sell expensive policies which will provide $10k "for your final expenses" to geezers and I wonder how they got in a situation where $10k one way or the other would matter at their death. And if it would, how could they afford the premiums on the insurance policy?

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

That was convenient, but it was no bargain. Saving only 50% after they held your money for 25 years was a financial rip-off.

We used a pre-pay arrangement for MIL before she switched from private pay to Medicaid at the nursing home since that was an allowed expenditure under Medicaid look-back rules. But, otherwise, would never consider doing it. There are other ways to get nearly the same convenience for your survivors without the expense of receiving a low return on your money for years.

Yep, I just did a "savings goal" of twice the starting amount after 25 years, and you need a rate of about....2.78%. Those are CD rates!

 

[Monterey298sc]

So burning natural gas fossil fuels in cremation is good for the environment?

 

[youbet]

So burning material gas fossil fuels in cremation is good for the environment?

Sure. Isn't that why funeral homes provide the service?

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

So burning natural gas fossil fuels in cremation is good for the environment?

I think you are responding to me, so I will answer "no" to the question but I would note that I didn't mention anything about cremation. I would prefer a "green" burial and there are a couple of cemeteries in these parts that do that. No headstone, no embalming, no casket (except non-stained wood). Put me in a burlap bag and toss me in the hole and I'll be good to go!

Funerals are a very personal choice, but in MY opinion, the industry as it stands today is just barbaric. Again, though...MY OPINION ONLY.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

So burning natural gas fossil fuels in cremation is good for the environment?

First of all, if you're concerned about the earth and renewable resources, reserving 8'x2.5' plots of land that can never be used by any living person for all eternity isn't exactly the most sustainable plan.

Second, who says it has to be natural gas?

 

[ShokWaveRider]

No point arguing with someone who makes their living from the subject under Discussion, they will be biased even if not intentionally. Think Insurance Agent, Re Agent, Car Sales Person, Annuity sales person, the list goes on. This just happens to be a more sensitive subject.

 

[athena53]

We used a pre-pay arrangement for MIL before she switched from private pay to Medicaid at the nursing home since that was an allowed expenditure under Medicaid look-back rules.

I was also wondering if the bank account arrangement served an additional purpose- to protect it form other creditors. If you die with a pile of credit card debts ad no assets other than a regular savings account at XYZ bank that you intend to be used for your final expenses, wouldn't the credit card companies have a legitimate claim on it? Maybe because it's set up with the bank as a special "trust", specifically for funeral/burial expenses, it cant' go to any other creditors.

Sad story about relatives going against the deceased's wishes: the brother of my nephew by marriage (NBM) came back from fighting in the Middle East with a bad case of PTSD and ended up committing suicide. He'd expressed his wishes that he be cremated. Their mother insisted on in-ground burial and since she didn't have the money, told NBM HE had to pay for his brother's burial- which he did. (He's a partner in a large accounting firm so it was within his means, but still...) What a waste of money, land, chemicals and materials.

 

[braumeister]

No point arguing with someone who makes their living from the subject under Discussion, they will be biased even if not intentionally. Think Insurance Agent, Re Agent, Car Sales Person, Annuity sales person, the list goes on. This just happens to be a more sensitive subject.

I think Monterey298sc has been very objective and informative, and I greatly appreciate his posts here.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I think Monterey298sc has been very objective and informative, and I greatly appreciate his posts here.

In some instances yes, I agree. But others not so much. If one has made up one's mind about what they wants to do, that should be enough, especially on such a sensitive subject.

 

[redshift]

That is sad, but good to know, thanks for educating us. We have it covered. If they do not follow our directive and honor our wishes, they will be removed from the will.

Great idea! I'm going to edit my will to include just such a clause... Barring that I'll be forced to come back and haunt them!

 

[PatrickA5]

That was convenient, but it was no bargain. Saving only 50% after they held your money for 25 years was a financial rip-off.

We used a pre-pay arrangement for MIL before she switched from private pay to Medicaid at the nursing home since that was an allowed expenditure under Medicaid look-back rules. But, otherwise, would never consider doing it. There are other ways to get nearly the same convenience for your survivors without the expense of receiving a low return on your money for years.

Uh, I wasn't trying to imply it was a good investment. But, it was nice having everything decided when the time came. Much, much easier than a couple times we had to make arrangements due to a sudden unexpected death. That's when you let emotions get in the way of common financial sense. DW and I decided to make all decisions for our own funerals/burials now while we could think clearly and not burden our kids with those decisions. Whether or not pre-paying makes a good investment was not even on our radar when we did it. We won't care at that point. We'll be dead.

 

[athena53]

Great idea! I'm going to edit my will to include just such a clause... Barring that I'll be forced to come back and haunt them!

Just make sure they know your wishes and that they're someplace other than in the will, which may not be found and read till weeks after the person's death.

 

[gwraigty]

Yes, you can do that. What I am saying just about all funeral homes require payment when services are rendered, just like all businesses. Could take months to years to close an estate and a attorney pay a funeral home. This is why funeral homes can’t wait that long for payment. Also I have been involved with estates that we find out 6 months down the road is insolvent. NO MONEY to pay creditors. Another reason payment is required upfront . The person who paid funeral bill will be reimbursed personally from estate when closed.. so your executer will pay from is own packet and be reimbursed from estate if you chose not to pre-pay at a funeral home.

I commented on this before, but I thought of a couple of things. Why would an executor be willing to pay for the funeral out of pocket, then wait to be reimbursed from the estate? The executor may not have intimate details of the estate and it could be insolvent, as you have found out yourself. The executor might not have the money, plain and simple. If the executor isn't a close family member and might not even be an heir, what motivation is there to spend the money for the disposition of the remains?

Life insurance, or whatever the OP is considering purchasing, might be sufficient to cover the costs, but it doesn't get paid out quickly enough before the remains need to be taken care of in some way. If, as you say, funeral homes want payment upfront so as not to get stiffed (pun intended), then the life insurance doesn't truly provide the relief from the financial burden of the final disposition that the deceased intended, does it? Unless the funeral home is willing to keep the body on ice until the life insurance pays out?

Not an AARP member, but here is an article from their website that explains some options that may help in these matters:

https://www.aarp.org/home-family/friends-family/info-2017/funeral-payment-options-fd.html

 

[Monterey298sc]

As a funeral home, the contact is always between the person who calls us and is willing to sign a contract for final services. If no one is willing to take financial responsibility with the funeral home directly, we don’t even pick up remains from hospital, hospice ect. Once in our care and then no one is willing to pay for services, the funeral home only option is to pay for cremation out of OUR pocket , bucause the body MUST be taken care of shortly after death. THIS IS THE reason we don’t pick up remains usually until we have a signed contract. This is very rare not to have someone take that responsibility, but it does happen several times a year. You are correct , we can file a claim for the expenses with the estate, however often it is insolvent.