Coronavirus - Health and preparedness aspects - II

[Teacher Terry]

He wanted to go to Vegas and I said we absolutely aren’t going. He has promised to work a Celtic festival in California the end of April and here in June. Tonight at the Irish event I am going to discuss with the president have they thought of canceling, etc.

 

[MarieIG]

I bet we could come up with some engineered shock collar device which detects if someone is about to touch their face and gives them a small shock. Maybe you would need to wear a RFID ring on each hand or something? Or better, the collar has a tiny camera with image recognition that can identify hands?

Yeah, this is what I need. Shortly after the precautions were issued - I was bound and determined not to touch my face. Within two days, after exiting the subway, I pulled some papers out of my bag to check something and realized right after I did it -I stuck my finger in mouth.

 

[audreyh1]

I washed and cut up some cucumbers just a little while ago, and now I'm thinking about grocery shopping. Someone (I think IRL, not here) said they were going to use the pickup service to avoid going out in public, but to me that isn't much help, because you still have the products that a bunch of other people touched. At best, the grocery stockers and the Instacart/Peapod/store picker, but probably at least a few customers, too.

Now I'm thinking I should pay extra and get the shrink-wrapped cucumbers, even though they're twice as much. But then, I'd still be handling the wrappers.

What do you all think in general about how we can better handle grocery shopping, which is hard to avoid, and in particular produce purchasing?

We're not quite ready to break into our dehydrated food buckets yet!

I wash food that I buy at the grocery store anyway, and cook most of it.

I wash my hands before, during and after preparing food.

In general, I’m not sweating the contaminated exteriors of food packaging or produce. I consider them fairly low risk. Nevertheless, I wash my hands after grocery shopping. I wash my hands whenever I leave the kitchen.

 

[Pellice]

Good! Just imagine how awful you would feel if she came down with COVID-19 after going to that event.

She just made the decision not to go. I think she was a little shaken when she got messages from the NJ Symphony Orchestra and even her church saying that older members should think twice about attending. But she's already talking about feeling closed in! Depending on the situation, after I return from my trip I'll have her over to dinner.

**Added - this illustrates for me the impact that trusted non-governmental sources of information have as well, although I know intellectually that they have access only to the same resources as the rest of us.

 

[W2R]

But they don't define "older adults"! Unnecessarily vague.

I am 72. Everyone seems to think that those in their 80's are at risk for COVID-19, but it's hard to find information about those aged 60-79. Since I also have type 2 diabetes, I'm going to err on the safe side and just assume that I am in the more vulnerable group.

I wonder if the warning will make some cocoon too soon and get cabin fever just when there are more cases on the street.

I felt that way after my total knee replacement surgery and just wanted to get OUT of the house. I think it only took about two weeks.

 

[REWahoo]

I am 72. Everyone seems to think that those in their 80's are at risk for COVID-19, but it's hard to find information about those aged 60-79. Since I also have type 2 diabetes, I'm going to err on the safe side and just assume that I am in the more vulnerable group.

From what I read, anyone over 60 has elevated risk for a severe reaction to the virus.

 

[JoeWras]

but it's hard to find information about those aged 60-79. Since I also have type 2 diabetes, I'm going to err on the safe side and just assume that I am in the more vulnerable group.

Someone posted an article yesterday from "stats" magazine which has some hard numbers on your age group. Sorry I don't have it handy.

In general, risk for those below 40 is low. It goes up every decade after 40. Diabetes is a significant risk factor for complications. You are wise to play it safe.

 

[Gumby]

Yeah, this is what I need. Shortly after the precautions were issued - I was bound and determined not to touch my face. Within two days, after exiting the subway, I pulled some papers out of my bag to check something and realized right after I did it -I stuck my finger in mouth.

We went to the grocery yesterday and I got one of those thin plastic bags off the roll to put a package of chicken breast in. Normally, the plastic sticks together tightly and I have to lick my finger to get enough grip to open it. I decided not to do that yesterday. Man, did I struggle.

 

[MarieIG]

I expect people will be asked not to go to church.

I don't go to church when I feel the least bit sick as there are babies and elderly present. My fear is causing someone else to get sick.

 

[MichaelB]

Here’s the Stat article showing a demographic breakdown https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/03...n-of-coronavirus-risk-by-demographic-factors/

The death toll skews old even more strongly. Overall, China CDC found, 2.3% of confirmed cases died. But the fatality rate was 14.8% in people 80 or older, likely reflecting the presence of other diseases, a weaker immune system, or simply worse overall health. By contrast, the fatality rate was 1.3% in 50-somethings, 0.4% in 40-somethings, and 0.2% in people 10 to 39.

Here’s a link to the China CDC study. The Epidemiological Characteristics of an Outbreak of 2019 Novel Coronavirus Diseases (COVID-19) — China, 2020

 

[ziggy29]

I am 72. Everyone seems to think that those in their 80's are at risk for COVID-19, but it's hard to find information about those aged 60-79. Since I also have type 2 diabetes, I'm going to err on the safe side and just assume that I am in the more vulnerable group.

They are saying 60, but that is a somewhat arbitrary, round number. The data seem to show that the curve starts bending somewhere in the 50s and really starts climbing in the 70s.

That said, age and "chronic conditions" are not independent variables, so it's hard to know how much of it is purely age and how much of it is because older folks tend to have more conditions that put them at greater risk.

 

[sengsational]

We have been staying in more. Haven't been to the gym since last year and not going anytime soon. We are staying away from tourist areas and hanging out in the national forest. We've cut eating out down to 1x weekly and don't go to the areas tourists frequent. While neither of us has any health issues we do live without 20% of the oxygen many people have so I don't want to get a respiratory disease.

This got me thinking (dangerous, I know)...


When I researched a trip that had me going from sea level to 11,000 feet in an hour (by aircraft, of course), I looked at altitude sickness prevention. The inexpensive things sold to help physical training for high altitude (they all just make it more difficult to move air in and out) came out as useless, based on reading a few academic papers. But one device, used by serious mountain climbers, was a tent you'd sleep in that reduced O2 concentration. This was effective, because it somehow increased the O2 carrying capacity of blood.


So, the thing I wonder about, and this could be an easy study to design given the current state of disease, what if people living at high altitude with ARDS were randomized to a treat at their normal elevation, and the other group was treated at sea level. Both would have the same treatment protocol, so would get O2, but wouldn't the high elevation people being treated at sea level have an edge, due to their increased O2 carrying capacity?

 

[ziggy29]

I don't go to church when I feel the least bit sick as there are babies and elderly present. My fear is causing someone else to get sick.

Yes, I think our church council needs to think seriously about getting into the 21st century and start providing streaming church services and online giving options. DW and I (51 and 54 respectively) are sometimes the youngest ones in attendance, so we're very mindful of it. Better empty pews than hospital visits or funerals, though, even if it's hard on finances for a while.

 

[MissMolly]

We went to the grocery yesterday and I got one of those thin plastic bags off the roll to put a package of chicken breast in. Normally, the plastic sticks together tightly and I have to lick my finger to get enough grip to open it. I decided not to do that yesterday. Man, did I struggle.

I have always done the same thing with the licking the fingers to open the bag. I just got back from the store. Today, I got several of the wipes to wipe down the cart (as I am already in the habit of doing) but instead of immediately throwing them away I kept them in the little kiddie seat and wiped my fingers on them before opening the plastic bag. Worked like a charm.

 

[Kwirk]

I have a large supply of nitrile gloves. I keep a box of gloves within reach in the car and a container of wipes in the trunk. I put on a pair of gloves when I exit the car to a public place. When returning to the car I go first to the trunk if I have purchased anything. I use a wipe to clean the trunk latch, door handle, small items, and wipes container. I also wipe my phone if I’ve used it. I remove the gloves, turning them inside out, before returning to the car.

This process has its limits, especially if I’m eating in a restaurant. But, I’ve found the gloves to be VERY helpful at reminding me to not touch my face. My eyes and inhalation are not protected so I try to maintain distance from others. Part of maintaining distance is avoiding ‘vapor trails’ that others may leave in their wake.

I expect that as things worsen I’ll keep a spray bottle of disinfectant and a bucket of soapy water in my garage (along with another box of gloves) to disinfect purchases.

I’d be happy to wear a mask but that’s not going to be feasible for some time. I had a supply of masks but I’ve given them to my RN daughter who works on an acute care inpatient unit that has been unable to supply needed equipment (a more common problem than you may imagine) due to poor planning. I also have limited eye protection in reserve.

Yes, I am that paranoid.

 

[brewer12345]

Lets all go to Costco!

 

[NW-Bound]

Masks are useless. Here's the perfect device to keep you from touching your face:

How 'bout the pillory?

 

[gwraigty]

I wash food that I buy at the grocery store anyway, and cook most of it.

I wash my hands before, during and after preparing food.

In general, I’m not sweating the contaminated exteriors of food packaging or produce. I consider them fairly low risk. Nevertheless, I wash my hands after grocery shopping. I wash my hands whenever I leave the kitchen.

+1 We're still using plenty of fresh produce in our household, just taking precautions that one should take under normal circumstances.

 

[GenXguy]

See, I am not following your logic.

Say I need to go to the store for a few essentials. I wash my hands for 1 minute before leaving the house. I put on a N95 mask. I put on a pair of nitrile gloves. I drive to the store, get out of the car (it is sunny so the car door handles are probably OK). I walk into the automatic door opening thing without touching anything.

I scratch my nose. Should be ok, the gloves have not touched anything contaminated. I proceed to the milk isle, open the glass door (CONTAMINATION WARNING!) and get a gallon of milk. I carefully take off the gloves and toss them, putting on a new pair (this is tricky as I have to hold the milk between my knees because I didn't want to touch a shopping cart or basket). I decide this is ridiculous and just use the instant checkout thing for the milk. I carry the milk to the car, set it on the roof and dispose of the 2nd pair of gloves, putting on a 3rd pair. I scratch my nose again (damn itchy nose), grab the milk, and get in the car. I drive home, talk off the mask (stick it out in the sun? or throw it away?) and dispose of the gloves before opening the front door.

See? Simple.

You've been contaminated. The milk container could easily be contaminated with the SARS-CoV-2 virus being able to live for days on it. And now, that virus has spread to your knees, your credit card when you checked out, to your car wherever you set down the milk, and then to your home when you take it inside. And since you disposed of the gloves before opening your front door, now your hand is contaminated with the virus by carrying the milk, it potentially transfers to your front door knob, and now you are spreading into your house from your hands and milk container, not to mention it's still living on your CC and spread to your wallet and pocket and is on your knees. Lots of paths for the virus to spread.

 

[Fermion]

You've been contaminated. The milk container could easily be contaminated with the SARS-CoV-2 virus being able to live for days on it. And now, that virus has spread to your knees, your credit card when you checked out, to your car wherever you set it down, and then to your home when you take it inside. And since you disposed of the gloves before opening your front door, now your hand is contaminated with the virus again, your front door knob, and now you are spreading into your house from your hands and milk container, not to mention it's still living on your CC and spread to your wallet and pocket.

You are not wrong. Even seeming to take extreme precautions I would get contaminated. You also forgot that when I pressed the button on the credit card terminal at the self checkout to say "Ok" on accept charges, I picked up a tiny bit of virus on my index finger.

Essentially we are screwed, just don't know it yet.

 

[GenXguy]

Lets all go to Costco!

LOL @ what appears to be someone pulling down the facemask and itching their nose.

I wonder how the contaminated goods in the cart were handled when they arrived at the shoppers' homes. They must be assumed to have the SARS-CoV-2 virus on the surfaces.

 

[audreyh1]

Lets all go to Costco!

Uh-oh! She's got her nose exposed and is touching her nose with her gloved hand!!!!

 

[GenXguy]

You are not wrong. Even seeming to take extreme precautions I would get contaminated. You also forgot that when I pressed the button on the credit card terminal at the self checkout to say "Ok" on accept charges, I picked up a tiny bit of virus on my index finger.

Essentially we are screwed, just don't know it yet.

Right, who knows how many people with the virus touched it prior to you, which would have transferred to to your finger, even if the milk container had been virus free prior to that. One weak link in the chain, and you're SOL.

 

[FIYes]

Okay, still not doing much preparation here. I did pick up an extra can of coffee at Costco and a quart of shelf stable milk at Dollar Tree. Just couldn’t bring myself to buy more than a quart at a dollar a quarter. Penny wise, pound foolish.

Back in February I got my pneumonia shot. I had planned to get it in December but had a cold. Now I know people will say that it doesn’t protect against Covid19 pneumonia, but any pneumonia on top of Covid19 would likely be devastating.

The other precaution I am taking is that I have gotten fanatical about using Samsung Pay so I don’t have to touch cash or even the credit card terminal. At Kroger I use my phone for my loyalty card and to pay.

We are stocked up on cat litter and cat food. Definitely don’t want to run out of cat litter !

I am still out and about but haven’t been in any crowds. I don’t like crowds and have avoided shopping on weekends since being retired anyway. As others have mentioned I don’t want to self quarantine too soon and then get cabin fever.

 

[tmm99]

You are not wrong. Even seeming to take extreme precautions I would get contaminated. You also forgot that when I pressed the button on the credit card terminal at the self checkout to say "Ok" on accept charges, I picked up a tiny bit of virus on my index finger.

Essentially we are screwed, just don't know it yet.

I saw a photo taken in China in which people were using toothpicks to press elevator floor buttons.