Waited Too Long... How to Convince Spouse We are OK to Retire

[oiseux]

Thanks all for all the great input. We have sat down with a professional FP and gone through the numbers, twice. I've also shown the dynamic numbers in the Fidelity tool and in another calculator. The FP team actually laughed at the concern. His pension is available now and gets sweeter with each passing year. However, I actually make more income (60/40) and our combined total is pretty high (600K+), which may be part of the problem with walking away. I'm actually more at risk as I'm not WFH anymore (but he is). There is plenty in regular investment accounts, cash, deferred comp such that any 401K will be pushed to the latest possible ages. The IRAs might get triggered earlier for tax efficiency.

The issue of counseling is worth exploring. I'm not one to decide to FIRE without the other, although it may happen by six months. The date we picked keeps pushing. The fear of not having enough I think is going beyond financial advice.


The reason I picked post-COVID is that we bought a place overseas and it makes a great base to begin new adventures. This is one of the incentives.

 

[Gumby]

Just curious, quite a few replies refer to the spouse as "her"... any reason for this assumption?

A good reminder for us all about the dangers of assuming facts we don't know.

 

[Montecfo]

I do see the importance of not majoring in the minors.

 

[Bayarea_engineer]

What we forget to understand sometimes is that not everyone is made the same. what motivates or stresses us might not have the same effect on others. Some people are not as stressed by work like us. They enjoy the hurried work, getting lost in details ...etc.from what i observed, People who can see the big picture get stressed more because they see the silliness of lot of things and wasted time/effort.sitting through a 3 hr cartoon movie in a theater might stress you out but not to a kid.i am not saying people who enjoy work are like kids but its just an analogy to highlight how your perception and thinking can change the effect the same thing has on each person differently. in summary, please retire and let you spouse work.every year you delay retirement , you are doing injustice to yourself but a favor to your spouse. get to a win win situation.

 

[Helen]

I wanted to retire as soon as I hit the age and number of years to qualify for retirement benefits. My spouse wasn't ready so she kept working. I found group trips and travelled abroad then came back and joined meetup groups for the things I enjoyed doing. After a year my spouse decided to join me in retirement.

I think part of it was that she saw I was moving on without her and the other was that I found plenty of things to do and had no problem making new friends to do things with. She hasn't regretted retiring for a moment.

 

[Sunset]

OP - Some people enjoy working, they thrive on it. Since your combined incomes is very high, it suggests to me jobs that carry prestige. The kind of job that is harder to walk away from.
Maybe the money is really an excuse and and not the reason. After all it doesn't add up.

 

[GreenEggs]

Just tell her/him that you're "done". You'd love to spend time enjoying life with her/him, but if s/he's not ready yet you will send postcards and return home to visit occasionally.

Seriously.

You'll never run out of money, but you are running out of time. At this point, you're robbing yourselves. It's really that simple.

Either make the choice together or you need to be the leader. S/he may need you to lead the way, even if it's uncomfortable for whatever reason.

 

[Dtail]

I can see your view , but I do not think I said anything disrespectful. I saw responding to the question as the key element.

I'm very comfortable the posters here are overwhelmingly male. If you have statistics that show differently I'm all ears. There is no way to know what "many may think".

Meanwhile, I think the OP has been given some good input in the thread.

Well we know now that the spouse is male.

 

[Aerides]

I do see the importance of not majoring in the minors.

Not sure if this helps, but past polls have consistently shown a ratio of men in the 60's, women in the 30's, in the make up of responders to gender polls.

https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/poll-what-gender-are-you-92957.html

(sorry OP, thought I'd just address the point raised with some data, carry on!)

 

[Montecfo]

Aerides,

Thanks for the info. So 2-1, that does support my view. And I believe the folks who post (which was my statement) skew even further male.

I do agree that this drama is not providing any assistance to the OP. Consider me duly chastened for my unthinkable transgression.

 

[Jerry1]

Just tell her/him that you're "done". You'd love to spend time enjoying life with her/him, but if s/he's not ready yet you will send postcards and return home to visit occasionally.

Seriously.

You'll never run out of money, but you are running out of time. At this point, you're robbing yourselves. It's really that simple.

Either make the choice together or you need to be the leader. S/he may need you to lead the way, even if it's uncomfortable for whatever reason.

I think this is what I would do. At some point, a decision has to be made or the pain of not doing something gets to be worse than the pain of just doing it.

I know analytics are not likely to solve the problem, but one thing I’ve done over the years is invoke the worst case scenario logic. Of course the worst case is that you could lose absolutely everything but let’s keep it in the realm of having a reasonable possibility. By showing myself that I’d still be okay even if I lost half of what I have now, very unlikely, it allows me and DW to feel more confident in our current situation (both retired). Sure, we’d have to tighten up and things would change, but we’d be okay. Another model is the what’s your number model. Get the other person to throw out a number and or scenario. “What would it take for you to feel good about retiring?” It may be a crazy number or scenario but it will get things on the table that can be discussed and they’ll probably even be doable.

 

[Exchme]

It sounds like spouse has a high prestige job that gives structure, purpose and a built in social circle. Getting him to make abandon all that is a huge change. There is nothing wrong with wanting to continue to work, Warren Buffett is in his mid 90's and seems to enjoy it, but clearly doesn't "need" to work. The real issue is the misalignment in goals/desires between spouses. This forum is filled with people that are either retired or looking to, so it's easy to side with the OP, but both retirement for fulfillment and work for fulfillment are valid ways to live, so they need communication and maybe counseling to see if there is an arrangement (cutting back, sabbatical, OP retire and spouse work, etc.) that they can live with.

 

[Eucerin]

Retire and let the spouse see that life can be enjoyed.

Well said! +1000

Either the spouse enjoying working or have chronic insecurity. People like such is hard to convince by financial tools and spreadsheet, you just have to go ahead retire on your own, and show him/her how enjoyable life is without working.

 

[ivinsfan]

OP what do you think would happen if you retired and spouse didn't. Do you feel it would damage your relationship? You can retire or you can continue to work, but you can't force your spouse to quit working. I'm going to assume here that you two have had all the logical talks about retiring and not retiring.

We can't do or say anything that will help you convince or force your spouse to retire. Can you see your life together continuing happily with you retired and spouse working?

It might not be the "perfect" retirement life you personally dreamed about, but can you make it work for both of you? IMO this is where you want to focus not on "convincing" your spouse to retire now.

 

[MrsHaloFIRE]

I read this aloud to my DH to see if he agreed with my opinion or not, and he replied "yall are burnin' daylight."

If the detaield financial analysis (with a good grasp of income and expenses) doesnt convince the spouse, then you should jump and show them that the water is indeed nice.

 

[Chuckanut]

I'll relate a story to you, just one data point -

My oldest brother retired 4 years ago at age 59. In 2020, he had a stroke and ended up in the ER with an emergency operation to stop the bleeding on his brain. They found brain cancer. It was very aggressive. He fought it for 6 months and then passed.

You can work 2 more years. But none of us know how much time we have left. Every year is precious. Use your time wisely.

Once again an opportunity to post my favorite FIRE cartoon:

 

[pacergal]

OP--many couples retire at different times, there is no rule that says you have to launch together.
Finances are not the issue here. Deep, drilled down conversations are in order, either on your own or with a qualified therapist. If your spouse wants to continue to work, that is OK. If you want to retire, that should be OK too. Support each others feelings and choices.
There is plenty to do in retirement while the other is working, if that is your choice.

 

[braumeister]

We had been making fairly similar salaries in two different industries, but I decided to retire when I knew it was time.

There was absolutely no reason for DW to continue working; money was not an issue. But she decided to keep working simply because she is a much more social person and thoroughly enjoyed the people she worked with in her relatively low stress job. So she kept at it for another 12 years before hanging it up.

She had no problem with my being retired on my own, and I didn't mind her staying on the job because I knew she enjoyed it. I was happy to take care of the house and do all the shopping and cooking, since I enjoyed that stuff, and she was happy that she didn't have to think about that.

I took trips by myself, just like I used to do when single, and we took at least one big trip together every year on her vacation time. It all worked out fine.

 

[oiseux]

OP what do you think would happen if you retired and spouse didn't. Do you feel it would damage your relationship? You can retire or you can continue to work, but you can't force your spouse to quit working. I'm going to assume here that you two have had all the logical talks about retiring and not retiring.

We can't do or say anything that will help you convince or force your spouse to retire. Can you see your life together continuing happily with you retired and spouse working?

It might not be the "perfect" retirement life you personally dreamed about, but can you make it work for both of you? IMO this is where you want to focus not on "convincing" your spouse to retire now.

I think this would be problematic. We've generally made large financial decisions together, although we have no problems with being independent. I may need to set the ground work and see how the discussion goes.



Yesterday I brought up the issue again and got similar responses, btw, plus a few more nonsense reasons. I actually feel the same as other posters -- for me it is not the reason that I hate work but that the FOMO is building.

 

[JoeWras]

Here's the thing. Reading your profile, it sounds like you'll want a few places to base yourselves in. A few in the US, and another in France.

That kind of thing supports having high NW, so I perhaps understand your spouse's anxiety.

Conversely, you are aging. If you are dreaming of going to France to hit the Alps and ski or hike, maybe now is the time. Don't delay!

It is a trade off. Yet, a NW of 8-large along with that huge pension makes me believe you are ready, and you both need to continue talking.

 

[Music Lover]

Every year you keep working is probably the healthiest remaining year of your life.

I know several spouses who retired at different times, it's no big deal and it's done all the time. I would never demand that my spouse remain working if I didn't want to retire, and of course I would never demand that they retire if I was retiring and they didn't want to. I think that's selfish.

 

[MarieIG]

For OP. I lurked for a few years before signing up.

Coordination/ agreement on retirement dates between spouses is by no means an unusual issue (including yours truly).

(Perhaps the difference in your situation is that your financial situation is very good vs. your spend rate.)

Post-Covid; are you and your spouse able to take sabbaticals, to allow him to test the waters?

 

[ivinsfan]

I think this would be problematic. We've generally made large financial decisions together, although we have no problems with being independent. I may need to set the ground work and see how the discussion goes.



Yesterday I brought up the issue again and got similar responses, btw, plus a few more nonsense reasons. I actually feel the same as other posters -- for me it is not the reason that I hate work but that the FOMO is building.

I'm guessing you knew with your first post that it's not really about the money. Have you actually said to your spouse, I understand you are not ready to quit working for a variety of reasons, but I want to (am going to) hand in my notice now.

That said, you have two choices continue to work and kick the can down the road or stop work and reinvent your lives as a couple.

My DH is 72 and still working (part time) as this point, so don't make the assumption that a few more years working will make this issue go away.

 

[ivinsfan]

Here's the thing. Reading your profile, it sounds like you'll want a few places to base yourselves in. A few in the US, and another in France.

That kind of thing supports having high NW, so I perhaps understand your spouse's anxiety.

Conversely, you are aging. If you are dreaming of going to France to hit the Alps and ski or hike, maybe now is the time. Don't delay!

It is a trade off. Yet, a NW of 8-large along with that huge pension makes me believe you are ready, and you both need to continue talking.

Assuming this is about money on the spouse's part is a red herring. This isnt super early ER they are in their mid 50's, so they are completely funded,the OP's numbers didn't even include SS.

 

[Out-to-Lunch]

I can recommend this book by Sara Yogev: A Couple's Guide to Happy Retirement and Aging.