Things that don’t work when the internet is down

[Jerry1]

Well, we had some bad storms and power is out around us which has impacted the internet. Thankfully I can use my cell phone hot spot to do my morning surfing. However, it makes one realize how important the internet has become and how frustrating it is how things are programmed. With no internet connection, I cannot connect to or use or control my thermostat, my pool pump, my WiFi plugs and switches, anything Alexa and worst of all, my Ring cameras.

I don’t know why they are programmed such that they cannot operate without an internet connection. Of course I wouldn’t be able to access them from outside my home, but my router is working and my “intra net” is working fine. Case in point, I can print to my wireless printer just fine.

Sure, I can do things like change my thermostat by going directly to it and adjusting it, but I don’t see any reason why it has to use the internet to function internally using my WiFi. The most frustrating issue is my Ring system not functioning. Once again, I’m proven correct that Ring cameras are a novelty and not really a security system. I understand that without the internet, the camera cannot store video in the cloud, but I see no reason that it couldn’t alert my phone and allow me to view outside my home with my phone as long as I’m in my home’s WiFi system. If there is some way to do this, I’m not aware. All a get is a message that the camera is off line. Frustrating.

 

[Alan]

Power outages are rare where we live but we did have a 48 hour internet outage some months back when our router failed and had to be replaced so I echo your frustrations about the smart devices in the home not working without wifi. With a power outage potential burglars know that the security cameras won’t be working but with a dead router at least the presence of cameras may act as a deterrent.

 

[OldShooter]

... Sure, I can do things like change my thermostat by going directly to it and adjusting it, but I don’t see any reason why it has to use the internet to function internally using my WiFi. The most frustrating issue is my Ring system not functioning. Once again, I’m proven correct that Ring cameras are a novelty and not really a security system. I understand that without the internet, the camera cannot store video in the cloud, but I see no reason that it couldn’t alert my phone and allow me to view outside my home with my phone as long as I’m in my home’s WiFi system. If there is some way to do this, I’m not aware. All a get is a message that the camera is off line. Frustrating.

The reason is simple: By running all your data through the mother ship, the company can aggregate and sell it. If the mother ship is free right now, there is no reason to expect that a "subscription model" is not planned in the future. I installed one simple Ring motion light and when I discovered how its control "bridge" had infiltrated my system I tore the thing out and threw it away. Any hacker that infiltrates Ring's servers will have a wealth of data to sell, including real time access to anyone's home where the Ring cameras have been installed.

Said more briefly, there is no technical reason for the Ring and similar systems to need the mother ship, but there is a huge business reason for it.

 

[Ronstar]

We have a phone / internet / cable tv bundle so we generally lose all 3 during an outage. Sometimes internet and phone goes out but I still have cable tv. I’m without 2 TVS on fire sticks and remote access to security cameras, leak detectors, ring doorbell, and email. And my jeep may not be able to tell me that I’m low in gas.

 

[SheitlQueen]

My internet was just out for 24 hours. I waste so much time with it but boy did I miss it. I can't do a hotspot with my phone because my phone won't function off of cell tours, they are too far away and I live in the hills. Without wifi calling my phone is useless. So no phone, web surfing or TV for a day. I spent a lot of the time getting things done around the house and reading. Maybe it should go out more often.

 

[target2019]

The phone app and their servers are part of the solution. How else would you control HvAC while away?

There may be an app that only uses the LAN.

I think you just need to try various automation things and find what works for your requirements. Sometimes you lose power and internet, sometimes just internet.

Our thermostats work without internet. All of the other "stuff" can be overridden, like power switches. Most of the solutions will fail, just a question of when and how quickly you recover.

 

[Sunset]

OP - Unfortunately companies don't want to make a robust system, better for them to make a system where they can collect and sell data (as OldShooter said).

It is funny how the internet is so reliable, we are temporarily lost without it.

My Netflix goes down, and I have to to resort to the realtime OTA channels we get

When our internet is down, it also means no more internet phone, we have a regular phone so still get the scammer calls

I have an eufy and wyze camera , they have memory cards, I'm pretty sure the eufy camera ($30-$35) records to the memory even without internet if I have it on continous record. But no intra-net access.

 

[OldShooter]

The phone app and their servers are part of the solution. How else would you control HvAC while away? ...

An app can connect directly to an IP address of the HVAC box. It is a little more screwing around but not technically difficult.

I do not have cameras but I believe that the Synology camera app can connect directly to one of my Synology NAS boxes with no intervening mother ship. I can definitely connect direct to the NAS box from afar, so I assume the video features are available too.

 

[Aerides]

We have two outdoor back porch lights that operate independently. One switch is in the dining room, which we use as the main in/out for the pool. The other is in our master bath. I suggested to DH that it would be nice to have them wired together.

The easy solution was internet lightbulbs. Great, now they both come on together and we put them on an internet timer too.

But if I want to turn them on/off outside of the programmed time... I'm all... Where's my phone now?

 

[MRG]

We routinely lose internet sometimes for multiple days. I had an issue that was inside our home so CenturyLink told me to pound sand or pay them $250 an hour. They wouldn't have added any value so it was DIY. Turns out that Google photos was trying to backup a photo to the cloud and took some issues that locked up the modem. Of course it only happened around each hour when DW's phone was connected wifi to the modem.

So yeah some stuff doesn't work for a while. It was interesting to me while I was diagnosing the Google photo issue I was disconnecting every device from wifi. Holly pile of garbage, where did all the devices come from? They were all mine but I don't remember giving 10 devices the credentials.

 

[Gumby]

Did we learn nothing from Battlestar Galactica? Do not network all your devices and computers in the service of convenience. When the Cylons disable the network, we will be defenseless in the face of their attack. Commander Adama understood this; the others died.

 

[target2019]

It's a joy when things work, and it's crap when they don't. My career was built on understanding new tech and making it work 24x7 for the daring...thirty five years of change and making things work.

I can't think of one thing I've purchased and installed recently that doesn't require learning at least a little bit about a new interface, and getting around their re-invented jargon for the buttons and whirligigs.

On Wednesday I'll be figuring out why things don't work in someone's home while the internet is UP!

 

[Scratchy]

Well, we had some bad storms and power is out around us which has impacted the internet. Thankfully I can use my cell phone hot spot to do my morning surfing. However, it makes one realize how important the internet has become and how frustrating it is how things are programmed. With no internet connection, I cannot connect to or use or control my thermostat, my pool pump, my WiFi plugs and switches, anything Alexa and worst of all, my Ring cameras.

I don’t know why they are programmed such that they cannot operate without an internet connection. Of course I wouldn’t be able to access them from outside my home, but my router is working and my “intra net” is working fine. Case in point, I can print to my wireless printer just fine.

Agree not having internet is a major hassle. I sleep better by:

-Having my modems and routers connected to UPS Power backups. We don't have a low of power outages where I live but in the few we have had, these maintained our internet nicely. Apparently, the internet supply is not necessarily on the same power grid as your home in the event of a power outage.

-We have several internet providers servicing our home and I subscribe to two, one as a back up. For the back up, I don't choose the highest speed plan and the cost to me is worth it.

 

[Kerfuffle]

Once again, I’m proven correct that Ring cameras are a novelty and not really a security system.

Do people think Ring is a security system? Yikes. I have one at our garage and one at our front door, and that's only so I know whether I remembered to close the garage door and whether there's a package waiting outside. I would never expect it to provide any sort of security. I also have those hooked up to a separate wifi system because those things have proven over and over again to be so hackable. It's useful enough though that it was worth the effort to set up a 2nd wifi network for them.

For the same hacking/corporate spying reasons, I also try to minimize the internet of things devices in our house. No fancy thermostats, no fridge with wifi, no alexa, none of that stuff. And yeah, as you pointed out, if the internet is down or power out, it's all useless anyhow.

I figure we're still being spied on constantly via our phones though, lol.

 

[OldShooter]

Do people think Ring is a security system? Yikes. ...

Insecurity system is more like it, capturing video of your home plus other data and making it available to anyone who successfully hacks their system, a dream target if there ever was one. I couldn't believe it when my $40 Ring motion light gratuitously hooked itself up to the internet via my home WiFi network.

 

[Sojourner]

One of the most annoying, frustrating things that doesn't work when the "internet is down" is GPS mapping on my cellphone. I recently got caught totally off guard when doing a day trip to explore some parks and recreation areas in a mountainous region in NC, when I noticed my phone was showing the dreaded No Service indicator. Without cellular data, there was no way to efficiently or easily map myself back to the hotel! I think from now on, whenever I travel to any location where there's a reasonable chance of spotty cell coverage, I'll download the offline maps before leaving home.

 

[ERD50]

Well, we had some bad storms and power is out around us which has impacted the internet. Thankfully I can use my cell phone hot spot to do my morning surfing. However, it makes one realize how important the internet has become and how frustrating it is how things are programmed. With no internet connection, I cannot connect to or use or control my thermostat, ...

Sure, I can do things like change my thermostat by going directly to it and adjusting it, ... .

OK, as I was reading this, I was thinking you couldn't even control it manually. But you can, so that's not as bad. But...

....

I don’t know why they are programmed such that they cannot operate without an internet connection. Of course I wouldn’t be able to access them from outside my home, but my router is working and my “intra net” is working fine. Case in point, I can print to my wireless printer just fine. ...

I'm not all that well versed in networking, but I'm pretty sure there actually is a significant difference between the two scenarios (not impossible, maybe not even all that difficult, but different and requiring significantly more code and testing). In one case, you connect to 'the cloud', then the cloud connects to the device. Imitating a separate path (and knowing when to do it and when not to do it) is a different process, because you skip that middle layer that does the translating. Again, not impossible, but not exactly trivial either (AFAIK).

And IIRC from a little networking work I did, the device is actively looking at the cloud for a command. The cloud doesn't have to find it, it has made its presence known. That is different on an intra-net (I think).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your printer is set up to only work on the local net, right? So that's why it's easy! I'm pretty sure (not very sure though), that if your printer can accept jobs from outside your local network, there is a server involved in the cloud (or locally), and all the jobs, local or not, go through that server.

I know it seems it should be simple, but it's not (unless someone with more network smarts than me can tell me I'm misinformed).

-ERD50

 

[W2R]

I have Cox Cable, and it goes out for no apparent reason now and then. Those who have had Cox Cable in the past understand and may feel free to sympathize. Luckily when it goes out it usually comes back in a few hours. But not always.

Frank and I have saved several dozen podcasts to listen to when there is no internet, and OTA television, and some books, and there are a few other things to do like nap. But all in all, loss of internet is SO much worse to endure now, than it was 20 years ago.

Luckily I haven't done the slightest thing to convert my home to a Smart (=Stupid?) Home because I am sort of a Luddite about that and dubious about surrendering control over so many things. So I don't ever have the thermostat or door lock problems some endure during internet outages. I never connected my washer to the internet, either. But gosh, not having every scrap of information known to man available at my fingertips, is such a shock!

 

[Sunset]

One of the most annoying, frustrating things that doesn't work when the "internet is down" is GPS mapping on my cellphone. I recently got caught totally off guard when doing a day trip to explore some parks and recreation areas in a mountainous region in NC, when I noticed my phone was showing the dreaded No Service indicator. Without cellular data, there was no way to efficiently or easily map myself back to the hotel! I think from now on, whenever I travel to any location where there's a reasonable chance of spotty cell coverage, I'll download the offline maps before leaving home.

My cell phone has zero data.
So I'm used to downloading maps and then turning on the GPS on my phone to see where I am on the map.
I find this especially handy when traveling to other countries, as I have no idea if I'll get wifi or if the maps I get will be in a foreign language, so I do it before I go on the trip.

 

[Sojourner]

So I'm used to downloading maps and then turning on the GPS on my phone to see where I am on the map.
I find this especially handy when traveling to other countries, as I have no idea if I'll get wifi or if the maps I get will be in a foreign language, so I do it before I go on the trip.

Same here. I always download offline maps before traveling overseas, but I usually don't think to do it before vacationing in the U.S. I suppose I just (mistakenly) assume that there will always be some level of cell signal available when I need it, even if it's only "1 bar". But nope, sometimes it's actually fully unavailable and for much longer stretches than one would think. Mountainous areas and very rural, unpopulated places are the most problematic.

 

[OldShooter]

One of the most annoying, frustrating things that doesn't work when the "internet is down" is GPS mapping on my cellphone. I recently got caught totally off guard when doing a day trip to explore some parks and recreation areas in a mountainous region in NC, when I noticed my phone was showing the dreaded No Service indicator. Without cellular data, there was no way to efficiently or easily map myself back to the hotel! I think from now on, whenever I travel to any location where there's a reasonable chance of spotty cell coverage, I'll download the offline maps before leaving home.

We've been using Copilot (https://copilotgps.com/en-us/) for years. Its claim to fame is that it doesn't need the internet for navigation. It needs the internet to download maps only once (plus periodic updates, of course). I typically keep the current US and Canada maps on my phone, then add other maps (Europe, etc.) when we're traveling. No need to sweat about not having an internet signal and no need to guess in advance what areas to download. I don't remember the $$ but the cost is nominal to begin, then additional nominal charges for rights to additional maps. There are some areas where maps are unavailable; Ethiopia and Myanmar come to mind, but this hasn't been a problem for us.

(Edit: Copilot also has a traffic information mode that probably requires the internet. I'm not sure as we don’t use it.)

Like all such systems, the user interface is highly intuitive to the people who designed it.

 

[CaptTom]

A "local control" solution is actually possible. Your smart IoT device (light switch, thermostat, etc.) can talk to a controller inside your own home, over your own WiFi (or other) network, instead of the manufacture's remote controller (server.)

But most manufacturers prefer to route all commands to or from their smart devices across the internet (twice!) and through their "mother ship" servers. Why?

Mostly for support reasons. They can control their own servers, and if your network has a problem, that's on you. "Yes, Mr. Jones, our system is running fine, but we can't communicate with your device. Call your internet provider. Click."

Of course, they can also vacuum up all your personal data; know when you're hone, when you're away, what time you go to bed, what time you wake up, what you're watching on TV, what temperature you keep your house, etc.

There are other options. I run the open source "Home Assistant" smart home system on my own hardware (an inexpensive Raspberry Pi.) I choose only devices which work locally, no "mother ship" server required. A lot of them even use a separate mesh network (Zigbee) not connected to my home's WiFi at all. Yet I can access my Home Assistant system remotely, and change things at home while I'm away.

There are plenty of options, but they require more thought than just buying whatever smart devices are cheap or popular, and letting the manufacturer of each decide how to manage them. You could easily end up with many different apps. And you never know how reliable or secure they may be. Or how long the manufacturer will choose to support them. Or when their free service will be switched over to a paid subscription.

Give it some thought before buying these things, and choose wisely!

 

[OldShooter]

... There are other options. I run the open source "Home Assistant" smart home system on my own hardware (an inexpensive Raspberry Pi.) I choose only devices which work locally, no "mother ship" server required. A lot of them even use a separate mesh network (Zigbee) not connected to my home's WiFi at all. Yet I can access my Home Assistant system remotely, and change things at home while I'm away. ...

Thank you for this. It sounds like just what I want from a capability and security POV. I will investigate.

 

[jollystomper]

I did enough work assessing Megacorp clients for Single Points of Failures (or SPOFs as we liked to call them) in their computing and network environment that I try to avoid anyof them as best as I can my home network. If I cannot avoid it then I try to come up with workarounds if it is down. That is one reason I will not get both phone and internet service from the same provider - I am fine as long as I have one or the other, and never have both been down at the same time.

I will not install anything that requires an internet connected server to function. I will build my own servers to host open source software (as has been mentioned above) or write my own as needed. I write it off to "hobby costs" .

As an aside, I will not install anything that I need to talk to to control something, or that talks to me. Blame seeing "2001: A Space Odyssey" during an impressible period of my life for that ("I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave" ).

 

[triangle]

I think there are some practicable reasons why most of the home "smart" devices connect to their mother-ship in the cloud. It allows their software to be built more simplistically, that instead of providing a software service for receiving connections from various devices (running old or newer software), it has a simpler job of connecting to some cloud service in order to do its thing (where the cloud service deals with all the different clients and software versions over time). This allows the system deal with dynamic IP address assignment, punching holes in firewalls, and works whether the customer places the smart device on the full home network or segmented off on the guest net. And as a really big bonus the app/service works whether the person is connected to their home wifi or wireless smartphone data. I imagine these smart devices would cost a lot more and be harder to manage for most people if they required setting up some kind of intermediate home server, touching their home wifi configuration, etc.