My 40th Thread...Linux Life

[ejman]

I use and like MX-Linux, which is based on Debian and is a very stable distro with reasonable size and not overly frequent updates. It has a well documented users guide and according to Distrowatch it is the most popular of all distros ahead of Ubuntu, Mint, Manjaro etc. I have used Ubuntu, Mint, Manjaro and Peppermint in the past but have used MX-Linux exclusively for the past 2 years and has been rock solid. Second place in my book would go to Manjaro which has a rolling distribution system so stays updated all the time. MX-Linux doesn't update to the latest gizmos until they are uber tested which is good my book. (except for browsers - those are updated frequently) It has never broken in the two years I have been using it. I use it on a Dell Laptop (Lattitude E6440) and on an HP desktop( Elite 8300). Never a problem with either one.

 

[target2019]

Just checking in here to say that I finally made the jump into Linux world! It's been on my to-do list for a while, but I decided to take the plunge this week and install Mint (Cinnamon) on my 2014-era Dell laptop running Win10. It had been getting more and more sluggish in recent years, despite my efforts to keep it clean and "snappy". For some reason, it just felt like the right time to revive it with a fresh, clean install of Linux Mint along with a minimal set of apps for the types of stuff I need to do with it.

Your experience sounds like most others I've read. I have Mint 19 on an older HP. the specs are somewhere in this thread. It only has 4GB RAM, so I stay ancient Mint on that. You should check the memory and HD on that machine. More memory and SSD upgrade does wonders. However, that is more work I'll admit.
.

I've been spending many hours learning some of the basics of Linux, like command line syntax, the filesystem, the myriad of ways to install apps, configuring various aspects of the GUI, etc. It's quite different from Windows, which I've used exclusively—both personally and professionally—since the early 90s. But there are enough similarities that I feel fairly comfortable already. Looking forward to getting much more adroit at all aspect of Linux usage and sys admin over the coming months and years.

As much as I'm liking my foray into the world of Linux so far, there are a few things I'm finding a little disconcerting off the bat. Hopefully my concerns will be eased as I gain more knowledge and experience, but it's also possible that these are just things I'll have to learn to live with. Would love to hear any thoughts and opinions on the below items from you Linux veterans.

• I installed Mint 20.3, and then days later, version 21 was released. From what I've read, upgrading is a fairly straightforward process within a major release, but not recommended when going to the next major release. Many articles I've read suggest doing a fresh install every 3-4 years when moving from one major version to the next. This is definitely not a pleasant thought, compared to Windows world.

• 
  I do know that on an older machine major updates take longer than you'd like. And you really need to look at whether or not an upgrade is worth the risk of some aspect of the major upgrade breaking due to your old hardware.
  .
  

  [*]My laptop battery seems to deplete more rapidly while running Mint than Win 10. I've read that this is a common issue among users running Linux on laptops. I was hoping for (and expecting) the opposite. Pretty disappointing.

  I'm not familiar with battery use, as my battery quit working several years ago. It is daunting to research problems like that with any OS. But I know that in general you're better off with a more-basic Linux that is less demanding of hardware resources.
  .
  

  [*]There don't seem to be any comprehensive guides or tutorials for learning ALL aspects of Linux Mint. Rather, I've only found piecemeal, scattered articles and blog posts that narrowly focus on individual aspects of the OS. I was certain I could find a book or online course called something like "Linux Mint Fundamentals for Windows Users" that would cover 80-90% of what I need to know for solid, day-to-day usage and sys admin of my Linux laptop. But, alas, no such luck.

You've nailed that with your observation. In general the OS worlds change fast enough to make training books and videos null and void before long. What I do is keep a log book for that situation. It's an old spiral notebook left over from who knows when. I write down commands and options I've experimented with. On the computer's desktop I also have a text file, and paste into that whatever I've found while searching. An outliner like CherryTree (maybe that's defunct?) is also a good idea. Organize your key learnings, and so on.

Or maybe this book would help?
Linux Mint 20.2: Desktops and Administration by Richard Petersen

 

[easysurfer]

I made a half leap (half as Windoze is still my main PC) to Linux a few years back. Done several distro hops.

I have one WIN desktop, a desktop with Linux Mint, and then 4 more laptops with MX-Linux. One of the laptops I use as my travel laptop to remote into my WIN desktop when on the road. One thing nice about Linux and seems most of the time, you can just clone a Linux drive and use that on another machine. Doesn't have the need for drivers to specific hardware.

I'm in the process of repurposing one of my laptops to use that as a webcam where I can remote into with my travel laptop when away. I had one of those cloud IP cameras but the developer keeps on changing the app for the phone that made access unstable. I figure Linux on my laptop to the rescue as once set up, using my laptop and a webcam will be more stable.

When I made the half dive, I when ahead a bought a book on Linux command lines. Book was helpful but I didn't go through the entire book. I've come to learn that for me I don't have to know all the commands but know that they exist and the terminal is my friend. Some things are done easier in the terminal but at the same time, I'm not about to bury myself trying to learn all the commands.

One of the biggest adjustment in thinking is in Linux there are so many ways of getting a program on your computer. Terminal commands, repositories, flatpaks, compiling (which I haven't figured out how to do yet). A bit different than WIN where you just download and install.

 

[Ramen]

One of the biggest adjustment in thinking is in Linux there are so many ways of getting a program on your computer. Terminal commands, repositories, flatpaks, compiling (which I haven't figured out how to do yet). A bit different than WIN where you just download and install.

This is why I'm using Zorin now. It's the only distro I've used that's as easy as Windows for software installation. It's been several months, and I can't recall having to use the terminal. It's also been my favorite for appearances. It has not been perfect (grrr), but I'm enjoying it overall. MX looks interesting too. I'll keep it mind for when/if Zorin lets me down.

 

[target2019]

Here's the Zorin download page. Feeling kinda Mac-OS-nostalgic!
https://zorin.com/os/download/

 

[ERD50]

This is why I'm using Zorin now. It's the only distro I've used that's as easy as Windows for software installation. It's been several months, and I can't recall having to use the terminal. It's also been my favorite for appearances. It has not been perfect (grrr), but I'm enjoying it overall. MX looks interesting too. I'll keep it mind for when/if Zorin lets me down.

I don't understand what makes Zorin any easier for software installation? I rarely use the terminal for installs (I'm on Xubuntu, the xfce version of Ubuntu). There is a 'software store', but I typically use the Synaptics Package Manager since actions go into a history, which is a nice reference.

A lot of sources will give the terminal commands for an install, but as I finally learned, it's a *lot* easier to provide a terminal command, than to say - "open up the software store, go to this tab, enter this, then, bla, bla, bla" - And those tabs might change, or be different between installs, and that throws it all out the window. So it's really just shorthand for the person writing the instructions. You can still do it via a GUI in almost all cases.

But a few copy/paste command lines, and it's done, and rarely ever changes. EX:

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:libreoffice/ppa

sudo apt update

sudo apt install libreoffice

-ERD50

 

[target2019]

This is why I'm using Zorin now. It's the only distro I've used that's as easy as Windows for software installation. It's been several months, and I can't recall having to use the terminal. It's also been my favorite for appearances. It has not been perfect (grrr), but I'm enjoying it overall. MX looks interesting too. I'll keep it mind for when/if Zorin lets me down.

Here's the Zorin download page. Feeling kinda Mac-OS-nostalgic!
https://zorin.com/os/download/

I tried the Zorin Lite with 4GB RAM machine. It took awhile to boot, but everything worked. It is very basic desktop with some options. To customize much further than basic you have to pay for Pro version.

You end up with a very basic system XFCE, Firefox is the browser. Thunar file manager.

I'll try Zorin Core next. That provides Gnome.

All the current versions are 16.1 in their OS scheme.

I'm afraid to install this next to Windows 7 and Mint. I need the Win 7 for some legacy stuff and can't afford to lose the software installed there.

 

[target2019]

Decided to install Zorin Lite on a really-old 2 GB Latitude D630. It had CloudReady and I was never really liking that, so...

The clean installation seemed to run smooth, but eventually stopped and referred to errors it would post on the next screen. That never happened. Okay, that was not a problem. I grabbed an old DVD with Mint 17 XFCE and installed with no problems. So in the end I ended up with a better emergency notebook.

I poked around at the notebook specs to see if I could expand RAM. It's possible to double the 2GB (2 slots) to 4GB. So I flipped it over and removed the RAM and found only 1 slot. WTF. There was a label behind the one chip that read "B on Top." As I found out the other DIMM was under the keyboard!

 

[target2019]

Messing around in the basement.


So, on the 2-GB Latitude D630 a cold boot takes 40 seconds to get to desktop. That seems decent giving the hardware age. The drive is 80 GB.


sudo apt install smartmontools
sudo smartctl --xall /dev/sda



Hard disk has less than 1 year of power-on hours.

 

[easysurfer]

I have a Dell D620 laptop with MX-Linux installed. Yes, the hardware is old, but the laptop still is functional with MX installed .

 

[Ramen]

Did some distro hopping over the past week. Ended up right back where I started, with Zorin 16.1 Core. I just love the look and feel. And it's so easy for me after 12 years of Windows at work.

First I tried MX Linux and didn't care for it at all. I really wanted to like it, as I'd been looking to try something Debian. It had some boot issues, and I could not get comfortable with the appearance and feel.

So next I tried Mint 21 Cinnamon. Not bad. Felt more familiar being Ubuntu, but it just does not look as nice as Zorin to me. Also more fiddling with the terminal, etc.

Zorin isn't perfect either, but I guess it's home. I also tried to install Windows 11, but it didn't like my machine. I was pretty sure it was compatible. Oh well, sticking with Linux for now.

 

[ejman]

Did some distro hopping over the past week. Ended up right back where I started, with Zorin 16.1 Core. I just love the look and feel. And it's so easy for me after 12 years of Windows at work.

First I tried MX Linux and didn't care for it at all. I really wanted to like it, as I'd been looking to try something Debian. It had some boot issues, and I could not get comfortable with the appearance and feel.

So next I tried Mint 21 Cinnamon. Not bad. Felt more familiar being Ubuntu, but it just does not look as nice as Zorin to me. Also more fiddling with the terminal, etc.

Zorin isn't perfect either, but I guess it's home. I also tried to install Windows 11, but it didn't like my machine. I was pretty sure it was compatible. Oh well, sticking with Linux for now.

That, in a nutshell is the beauty of Linux. One can easily try different flavors (Distros) until one of them "clicks" and the user feels comfortable with it. The two I like are MX-Linux and Manjaro which is interesting because they are totally different in concept and execution.

 

[Ramen]

Right, there's no one size fits all. It's a savory smorgasbord. I liked Manjaro a couple of years ago, but it kept crashing on my machine.

During my latest Zorin install I discovered two apps that are new to me.

OnlyOffice -- https://www.onlyoffice.com

I never warmed up to LibreOffice or the other open-source suites. This one looks fantastic and functional. Looking forward to more time with it.

RiseupVPN -- https://riseup.net/en/vpn

I have a paid VPN subscription, but it doesn't work in all public spaces. I used Riseup as a backup yesterday and will keep it on hand.

Maybe we need a thread for favorite open-source apps?

 

[target2019]

Some open-source apps were discussed in the beginning of this thread, and maybe later. If you feel a new thread would help, definitely give it a try.

There seem to be some Linux users who post here from time to time.

 

[easysurfer]

That, in a nutshell is the beauty of Linux. One can easily try different flavors (Distros) until one of them "clicks" and the user feels comfortable with it. The two I like are MX-Linux and Manjaro which is interesting because they are totally different in concept and execution.

I have the urge to distro hop again .

I've been using MX-Linux as my go to distro. But a found a couple of things it doesn't do. So, I've also use Linux Mint.

The past couple of days been poking around and installed the lasted Linux Mint on an old Dell Laptop. Surprise, the internal WiFi card not supported (perhaps supported with some driver install....wait? I thought that's supposed to be the beauty of Linux ... no driver hunting).

Of course, in this case, I could just use a usb wireless adapter. But shouldn't have to!

 

[ejman]

I have the urge to distro hop again .

I've been using MX-Linux as my go to distro. But a found a couple of things it doesn't do. So, I've also use Linux Mint.

The past couple of days been poking around and installed the lasted Linux Mint on an old Dell Laptop. Surprise, the internal WiFi card not supported (perhaps supported with some driver install....wait? I thought that's supposed to be the beauty of Linux ... no driver hunting).

Of course, in this case, I could just use a usb wireless adapter. But shouldn't have to!

Interesting. I thought drivers are built into the kernel? Perhaps I got that wrong - for the first time ever

 

[ERD50]

Interesting. I thought drivers are built into the kernel? Perhaps I got that wrong - for the first time ever

As I understand it (and my understanding is not so great here), some of the drivers for the WiFi ( and display ) hardware are proprietary. So some Linux distros require you to agree to install them, they don't install proprietary SW/FW by default.

-ERD50

 

[target2019]

Interesting. I thought drivers are built into the kernel? Perhaps I got that wrong - for the first time ever

I don't think every driver for every device is in the kernel. Probably a large number are, and under most circumstances the device id leads to some driver that works. But expecting 100% is probably gonna let you down somewhere along the line.

It could also be that the BIOS doesn't ID the device properly, I imagine.

 

[ejman]

I don't think every driver for every device is in the kernel. Probably a large number are, and under most circumstances the device id leads to some driver that works. But expecting 100% is probably gonna let you down somewhere along the line.

It could also be that the BIOS doesn't ID the device properly, I imagine.

Sure. I would expect new devices to take some time before the kernel gets the update. What surprised me about easysurfer's post is that apparently the laptop is fairly old so I would expect the drivers to be already in the kernel. Now that I think about it I seem to remember I had a problem when I was using Linux Mint ( don't remember the version} where the Wi-Fi kept connecting and disconnecting on its own. As I recall I had to get deep in the weeds of wi-fi settings to get it to stop that. I've never had a problem with MX-linux connecting automatically to all devices I have.

 

[target2019]

Sure. I would expect new devices to take some time before the kernel gets the update. What surprised me about easysurfer's post is that apparently the laptop is fairly old so I would expect the drivers to be already in the kernel. Now that I think about it I seem to remember I had a problem when I was using Linux Mint ( don't remember the version} where the Wi-Fi kept connecting and disconnecting on its own. As I recall I had to get deep in the weeds of wi-fi settings to get it to stop that. I've never had a problem with MX-linux connecting automatically to all devices I have.

I don't have a suggestion. Around the house I have locations where I just plug Ethernet into old stuff. WiFi is available, but the old boat anchors with dead batteries are used for accessing internet to troubleshoot and play system admin occasionally. Basement NCS (Network Command Station) is a favorite spot.


You didn't always get the same wireless card in the same model. If the card was problematic to Windows, then maybe another driver would help. Linux was not a focus as I recall.

I may have some old wireless PC Cards in a drawer. Those were the days...

 

[jim584672]

I'm sure you could find a WiFi dongle that will work with Linux.

 

[target2019]

These are the specs for the D620 Latitude:
Specifications: Dell Latitude D620 User's Guide

For wireless, you got what you got.

There are internet conversations about the model and Linux support for devices. I'm sure easysurfer has read those. Broadcom sticks out as problematic.

When I have time I'll check my D630 for WiFi.

 

[ERD50]

I keep meaning to add my recent (not good, but ends well) experience.

I've been using Linux/Ubunut/Xubuntu as my daily driver since JUNE 2010. Reinstalled the OS as newer Long Term Support versions were released, generally every two years. Used that first machine from 2010-2014, replaced it in 2014, and used that up machine up to DEC2021. So I've used Ubuntu/Xubuntu on several machines and through several upgrades. I also installed it on a few other machines for friends, and I've played with a few of the other distributions. So I have some level of experience and rarely had any signification issues. Crashes were really rare, I normally went for weeks/months just sleeping it, and mostly only would reboot so it could update a new kernel.

So when I bought a new laptop in DEC2021, and installed Xubuntu on it, I figured it would all go well. Sort of. But it crashed on me after a few days. OK, maybe just needs some updates. But it kept crashing, and I couldn't figure it out (though I'm not good at troubleshooting this stuff, partly because I've had so few issues!). I didn't want to take the time to research it, I ended up just shutting it down each night, and that kept the crashes to a minimum. It had also just been doing weird stuff, like pull down menus and scrolling might sometimes look sort of pixelated for an instant. I swear that some youtube videos would stutter if I drummed along on the desk - but it has an SSD, so it wouldn't be a hard drive skipping, and I couldn't track down any loose connections. Frustrating.

By the time I got serious about figuring this out, I realized that the 22.04 LTS was out, so I decided to just reinstall. I did that on my previous machine first to test it out, and get that set up and tweaked to my liking, so I could quickly convert my new machine with minimal time used to get it tweaked ( I'm *very* particular about how my panels and preferences are set up).

Bottom line, that install went well, I got it all tweaked and backed up, and it's been rock solid. No weirdness, no stuttering youtube, no crashes, no video artifacts. All's well that ends well.

This is my first machine with SSD. The biggest difference is that I keep an insane number of browser windows/tabs open, and within a day or so I've consumed all the memory and I start swapping out to disk. With swap on the HDD, the machine would just grind to a halt, just painful. But I could just quit the browser (sometimes that was even difficult to get the menu down, or to get it to respond to CNTRL-Q), and that would bring it back. I'd do a swap-off-swap-on, restart the browser, restore the session, and I'd be back in business.

But with the SSD now, even when I go out to swap, I don't even notice any slowdown (though there must be some, SSD is still slower than RAM). Lately, I haven't even bothered restarting the browser, I haven't seen more than ~ 3 GB out to swap, and it seems to run just fine.

So I have no idea whey my install of 20.04 was so messed up on this machine (an ASUS Zenbook Flip 15), and probably a re-install would have fixed it, but 22.04 has been good from day one.

-ERD50

 

[easysurfer]

I'm sure you could find a WiFi dongle that will work with Linux.

For my no wifi sitiuation on an old Dell laptop using Linux Mint, I did find a resolution. Didn't even need a new WiFi dongle, though that would've certainly been a workaround.

Ended up I searched the forum in Linux Mint and found someone who suggested entering some command lines in Terminal and that made my wifi card recognizable again. As simple as finding the right things to enter in terminal.

 

[jim584672]

To me Ubuntu has been downhill on quality and speed for several years now. Don't like snaps, don't like the Gnome 3 Desktop, the PPAs. It feels like they just don't care anymore.

My daily driver is Manjaro with the Mate Desktop (Gnome 2 fork). Helps if you are familiar with Arch since Manjaro is a more stable version of Arch and uses the same package manager. Have some Flatpak apps as well.