Chip and PIN in Europe

[audreyh1]

Do they have foreign transaction fees? For small amounts it doesn’t really matter.

 

[Involuntary Retiree]

Do they have foreign transaction fees? For small amounts it doesn’t really matter.

If you're talking to me, the answer is no. Here's a recent third-party review of the Wise debit card: https://transumo.com/wise-card-review/

 

[audreyh1]

If you're talking to me, the answer is no. Here's a recent third-party review of the Wise debit card: https://transumo.com/wise-card-review/

That’s fine, I was just curious.

 

[lakehawk]

Chip and Pin

I just ordered PIN's for two different VISA signature cards from USAA and Chase. No problems getting them.

I would try Chase again!

 

[Global Wizzo]

Chip/Pin

I ran into this several years ago. Then in DK and NL you needed Chip & Pin to use any gas pump. Chase reissued my Marriott but no pin. They then told me to just leave the card in when asking for the pin and the transaction would be approved. Worked sometimes.

Check with the issuers. You may be able to get a second card now that is linked and has pin priority.

In the UK this week and been in Asia, ME and Italy this year with no issues using Chase Marriott, Barclays Emirates and Amex. For tap and go on buses and subways in UK. It is much less than a paper ticket.

Just verify what is actually accepted. Some places like London subway will not take AMEX. Same for cabs.

 

[YB88]

I also had the free Barclay chip-n-pin card years ago. I took it to Europe one or two times and the pin part of the card never worked for me. Not once. I cut up the card and forgot about it. Last year Barclays canceled my card for non-use.

I wish I had known this a few weeks ago --- I got the (no annual fee version of the) AARP travel mastercard from Barclay's for just this purpose, to have a true chip & pin card for an upcoming trip. I'll give it a go anyway now that I have it, but ... rats.


Fortunately my travels this time are mostly in Germany and a bit in Austria. Germans I think are still cash-biased from what I've heard, "Bargeld" as they call it should still work fine in lots of places. Possibly to include some unattended kiosks, i.e., slots to accept cash instead of a card. Here's hoping.

 

[swabby01]

Have traveled to Europe 3-4 times a year for the better part of the last thirty years of my Work. Many years ago my company changed out my corporate credit card for a Chip and Pin to use there. Also traveled to Australia and worked there for 9 months in 2011 - used the chip and pin there also. My USAA credit card is also chip and pin and I have used that extensively in Europe. Many Credit companies issue these for use both in the states and internationally

 

[swabby01]

To expand on my earlier message some restaurants and many other shops in Europe required Chip and Pin. Many independent German restaurants would not accept ANY credit card so I used my Chip and Pin card in ATM's which by the way almost unconditionally gave me better exchange rates than any of the currency exchange stations.

 

[MdaPetralia]

...Many independent German restaurants would not accept ANY credit card so I used my Chip and Pin card in ATM's which by the way almost unconditionally gave me better exchange rates than any of the currency exchange stations.

If you use a credit card (not a bank/debit card) in an ATM to obtain cash (regardless if using a pin), this is a cash advance which incurs higher interest rates, starts accruing interest as soon as the transaction goes through (i.e. no grace period), etc. Right?

 

[MdaPetralia]

I'll be in Europe this summer and the car rental company (Hertz) says it reqquires a chip and PIN card to rent. Even a prepaid rental seems to require a chip and PIN card to release the car.

Has anyone else run into this issue with not having a chip and PIN card in Europe? Are there workarounds?

Where in Europe are you renting the car from?

I have rented cars in Italy many times and was never asked to use a chip and PIN card so would use a regular signature credit card. I do have a chip and pin credit card but only use it at ticket machines, unmanned gas stations and toll booths.

Is this written in the contract fine print, a requirement to reserve on-line, or did someone tell you this over the phone? If the later, then perhaps call back and question them on this.

 

[Surewhitey]

I'll let you know next week. We leave for Spain and Azores Friday...

 

[sengsational]

Train stations can be problem especially as the ticket counters often have long lines. But I have had the best luck ordering tickets ahead via an app such as Trainline, even if just the night before, and then using a kiosk if needed to print out a ticket using a reservation reference number, or just showing the tickets from the phone. A lot less pressure than dealing with a machine and a possible time crunch. Seems like in the last year or two everything was etickets anyway - what a relief!

This really is easier than doing the kiosk at the station. You're sitting with your feet up, on the hotel WiFi, no time constraints and not having to defend from pickpockets and the like. You still need to navigate the payment choice, and often that's a chore, but I've usually found a solution. With mass transit, I've found that if they have an app where you can buy fares through the app... that's optimal. You fiddle with aligning your funding source one time, then it's smooth sailing the rest of the visit, and you get real time status on your train/bus, typically.

.



I'll report back in November and let you know how it goes.

Please do! I've got a Wise account that I opened to pay a UK operator. It's worked well for that. Maybe I'll look into a card. It's linked to a low balance bank account, and that might be a backup for getting cash at an ATM using the credit union Visa debit card.

 

[EvanC]

I always appreciate this forum. We're headed to Europe in a few weeks . I never considered adding a PIN to my credit card.

After Reading this I contacted the bank and added a PIN to the card. I'll know in a few weeks if I it was useful.
Thanks to all......GREAT FORUM

 

[explanade]

I always appreciate this forum. We're headed to Europe in a few weeks . I never considered adding a PIN to my credit card.

After Reading this I contacted the bank and added a PIN to the card. I'll know in a few weeks if I it was useful.
Thanks to all......GREAT FORUM

One thing to be aware, you need chip and PIN with PIN PRIORITY.

Most US cards may have a PIN but they are likely SIGNATURE PRIORITY.

That means if you go to a restaurant and pay with that card, they will insert the card to the credit card terminal and it will print out a receipt to sign.


These days, you are much better off getting a contactless card from your credit card issuer or putting the thing into Apple Pay or Google Pay and using contactless transactions, which do not require signature.

The places you are going to need PIN PRIORITY cards are for unattended transactions, for instance a kiosk to buy train tickets or to purchase gas at these unattended gas stations. Or a toll booth on the Autoroutes or Autostrada.

Though on the toll booths, I think any chip card will work because for smaller transactions, they're not requiring signature.

So the big problem may be gas stations.

I just filled up yesterday in Spain, came to 24 Euros. It was an attended station so I went inside and used my Apple Watch for Apple Pay.

They did have an old terminal outside where you can insert your card and pay that way.

I do have a First Tech MasterCard with CHIP PRIORITY that Ive used in the past. But I just went inside and used Apple Pay instead, locked the car first.

I just try to avoid these unattended stations, though sometimes that's hard, because in some countries like Italy, they are unattended for like several hours in the middle of the day or 24/7 in some cases.

 

[Sunset]

If you use a credit card (not a bank/debit card) in an ATM to obtain cash (regardless if using a pin), this is a cash advance which incurs higher interest rates, starts accruing interest as soon as the transaction goes through (i.e. no grace period), etc. Right?

I think you can avoid the interest costs by just putting a few $1,ooo's onto your credit card before you leave. Making it have a surplus of money.

Never tried it, so don't know. Maybe someone else has ?

 

[explanade]

I think you can avoid the interest costs by just putting a few $1,ooo's onto your credit card before you leave. Making it have a surplus of money.

Never tried it, so don't know. Maybe someone else has ?

Or just use an ATM Debit card given to you by your bank and make sure there's funds in that account.

I use the Schwab Investor Checking Account which refunds all ATM fees worldwide.

Not my main checking account so I have to periodically move money into it.

 

[Involuntary Retiree]

If you use a credit card (not a bank/debit card) in an ATM to obtain cash (regardless if using a pin), this is a cash advance which incurs higher interest rates, starts accruing interest as soon as the transaction goes through (i.e. no grace period), etc. Right?

My understanding is that, in addition to the higher interest rate that begins accruing the day of the cash advance, the credit card company also assesses a transaction fee. For both Citibank and Chase, this fee is currently $10 minimum or 5% of the cash advance amount, whichever is greater. Capital One charges $10 or 3%.

 

[brett]

Our surprise in Italy was unmanned gas stations in some areas that only accepted cash. No credit cards.

Fortunately a local who was at the pump to show us how it worked, ie would we get change...etc.

From then on we always kept a 10 and a 20 euro note aside just in case.

 

[brett]

Train stations can be problem especially as the ticket counters often have long lines. But I have had the best luck ordering tickets ahead via an app such as Trainline, even if just the night before, and then using a kiosk if needed to print out a ticket using a reservation reference number, or just showing the tickets from the phone. A lot less pressure than dealing with a machine and a possible time crunch. Seems like in the last year or two everything was etickets anyway - what a relief!

This is what we did in Portugal for five weeks. Never once lined up at a ticket counter.

The other benefit....we discovered two things on the Portugal rail site. The first was that they often discounted certain routes at certain times.. slightly less than half price.

We also discovered that as seniors we could sign up for a 50 percent discount on all rail fares. Not certain that we would have benefited from either, or even known about them, if we had to stand in line at a busy rail ticket counter for each of our rail journeys. We did exactly the same on the two bus trips that we took.

There is lots of information on the various country rail sites that may not be apparent to someone who only lines up at a ticket counter. Routings, delays, cancelations, prices.

On the Austrian rail site we signed up for a tour that include a one way rail journey followed by a tour of a monastery and river cruise back to Vienna. In Barcelona we found a Spanish rail day trip package that included subway to the train station, train journey to Montserrat, and entrance to the monastery.

 

[PaunchyPirate]

Unless things have drastically changed in recent years, putting a credit card into an ATM to withdraw cash (which I think always requires a PIN) is called a "cash advance". It gives you cash but it adds that to your credit card balance. And it carries a hefty interest rate fee as mentioned above. That fee is started on the day of the withdrawal until you pay it back.

Almost all credit cards have a credit limit. But they also have a cash advance limit, which is usually smaller than the overall credit limit of the card.

Using a credit card in an ATM to get cash is rarely a smart thing to do unless you need cash very badly and have no other means to get it.

 

[yakers]

Last year in Iceland and Portugal never needed a pin, credit cards worked and almost every place took Apple Pay. We took $100 on Icelandic Kroner at the airport and when we left we still had it so bought a bunch of duty free stuff. Remote gas worked off ApplePay. Never had a problem with credit cards in Lisbon or Porto,sometimes it would print out a paper to sign, every restaurant knew how it works.

 

[audreyh1]

One thing to be aware, you need chip and PIN with PIN PRIORITY.

Most US cards may have a PIN but they are likely SIGNATURE PRIORITY.

That means if you go to a restaurant and pay with that card, they will insert the card to the credit card terminal and it will print out a receipt to sign.


These days, you are much better off getting a contactless card from your credit card issuer or putting the thing into Apple Pay or Google Pay and using contactless transactions, which do not require signature.

The places you are going to need PIN PRIORITY cards are for unattended transactions, for instance a kiosk to buy train tickets or to purchase gas at these unattended gas stations. Or a toll booth on the Autoroutes or Autostrada.

Though on the toll booths, I think any chip card will work because for smaller transactions, they're not requiring signature.

So the big problem may be gas stations.

I just filled up yesterday in Spain, came to 24 Euros. It was an attended station so I went inside and used my Apple Watch for Apple Pay.

They did have an old terminal outside where you can insert your card and pay that way.

I do have a First Tech MasterCard with CHIP PRIORITY that Ive used in the past. But I just went inside and used Apple Pay instead, locked the car first.

I just try to avoid these unattended stations, though sometimes that's hard, because in some countries like Italy, they are unattended for like several hours in the middle of the day or 24/7 in some cases.

AFAIK my Bank of America Travel Rewards card defaults to PIN just fine in an unattended sales terminal type situation. But a lot of US issued credit cards don’t do that properly. There was a web site where you could see the coding sequence for various cards.

 

[SecondAttempt]

One thing to be aware, you need chip and PIN with PIN PRIORITY.

Most US cards may have a PIN but they are likely SIGNATURE PRIORITY.

That means if you go to a restaurant and pay with that card, they will insert the card to the credit card terminal and it will print out a receipt to sign.


These days, you are much better off getting a contactless card from your credit card issuer or putting the thing into Apple Pay or Google Pay and using contactless transactions, which do not require signature.

The places you are going to need PIN PRIORITY cards are for unattended transactions, for instance a kiosk to buy train tickets or to purchase gas at these unattended gas stations. Or a toll booth on the Autoroutes or Autostrada.

Though on the toll booths, I think any chip card will work because for smaller transactions, they're not requiring signature.

So the big problem may be gas stations.

I just filled up yesterday in Spain, came to 24 Euros. It was an attended station so I went inside and used my Apple Watch for Apple Pay.

They did have an old terminal outside where you can insert your card and pay that way.

I do have a First Tech MasterCard with CHIP PRIORITY that Ive used in the past. But I just went inside and used Apple Pay instead, locked the car first.

I just try to avoid these unattended stations, though sometimes that's hard, because in some countries like Italy, they are unattended for like several hours in the middle of the day or 24/7 in some cases.

Thanks, most of my cards are contactless and I have Google pay as a backup I guess.

 

[Librarian]

So to clarify

One thing to be aware, you need chip and PIN with PIN PRIORITY.

Most US cards may have a PIN but they are likely SIGNATURE PRIORITY.

That means if you go to a restaurant and pay with that card, they will insert the card to the credit card terminal and it will print out a receipt to sign.


These days, you are much better off getting a contactless card from your credit card issuer or putting the thing into Apple Pay or Google Pay and using contactless transactions, which do not require signature.

The places you are going to need PIN PRIORITY cards are for unattended transactions, for instance a kiosk to buy train tickets or to purchase gas at these unattended gas stations. Or a toll booth on the Autoroutes or Autostrada.

Though on the toll booths, I think any chip card will work because for smaller transactions, they're not requiring signature.

So the big problem may be gas stations.

I just filled up yesterday in Spain, came to 24 Euros. It was an attended station so I went inside and used my Apple Watch for Apple Pay.

They did have an old terminal outside where you can insert your card and pay that way.

I do have a First Tech MasterCard with CHIP PRIORITY that Ive used in the past. But I just went inside and used Apple Pay instead, locked the car first.

I just try to avoid these unattended stations, though sometimes that's hard, because in some countries like Italy, they are unattended for like several hours in the middle of the day or 24/7 in some cases.

PIN on my Capital One isn't PIN Priority so would not work if they requested a PIN.

BUT it is contactless--so that will work?

I am in Amsterdam, Hamburg, Ireland, UK & Norway next month.
I plan to load 2 cards into my Wallet as well as carry them on me.
I will also have a debit card for a checking account specifically for the trip to withdraw a small bit of cash at bank ATMs in each country.

Seem like I'm covered?

 

[sengsational]

There was a web site where you could see the coding sequence for various cards.

I wouldn't put my CC# into a web site like that, but maybe the card's name. Unfortunately the names are so similar you might be looking at the wrong card; there are probably 50 or 100 flavors issued over the years by each of the big banks. This might be best done by calling (gasp) the customer no service number.