Input needed for a family house transfer.

[Sunset]

Family is incredible, I also had a cousin, who boozed up a lot and always had excuses to not work since being a pre-teen. He would laugh at me because I had to do chores of various kinds.

So much later in life, he didn't pay his property tax on the house his parents basically bought him.
His brother bought it at the tax sale to save it and later sold it when the younger brother died.

OP - has said the property is worth $25K , so taxes must be pretty low and maybe this whole thing is a small issue overall ?

 

[Music Lover]

How much are the past due taxes? If not much and you can easily afford it, maybe pay them just to kick the can down the road a little longer. Realistically, how long is he going to live, given his lifestyle?

Well, Keith Richards and Ozzy Osbourne are still alive.

 

[Music Lover]

I wouldn't buy the house because the last thing I would want is a property in my name with irresponsible people living in it. If someone does something stupid you will be named on a lawsuit. Or your brother finally leaves one day and then you're stuck trying to get rid of his squatter friends.

 

[ncbill]

I wouldn't buy the house because the last thing I would want is a property in my name with irresponsible people living in it. If someone does something stupid you will be named on a lawsuit. Or your brother finally leaves one day and then you're stuck trying to get rid of his squatter friends.

That's what the umbrella is for, but landlords aren't generally liable for their tenant's conduct, which is why there should be a formal rental agreement.

Difficulty of eviction varies state by state, so where is the OP's location?

 

[OldShooter]

This is a complicated situation. There are probably important factors you don't even realize and so haven't mentioned. Spend the money. Hire a lawyer to advise.

I have been reading this thread once in a while and cringing. There are so many moving parts here and so many uncertainties ... I really think @isisdave's post #3 is the important one. I certainly would not sign any agreements (especially home-made!) nor would I do any property transfers without consulting an old bear attorney with strong experience in elder law and medicaid. I am talking about a real kick-a$$ and take names personality who can be the bad cop talking to your brother and, maybe, the bad cop to stiffen up your spine if that is needed. It's hard to tell.

Don't worry about the attorney cost. Compared to what lies ahead it will probably turn out to be the best investment you'll ever make.

 

[isisdave]

Heh -- I was thinking this again myself, as the author of #3. Also I've been following THIS thread in another forum, now in page SEVEN of complications, where the problems include hat no one knows for sure if the property is in a trust or not ...

 

[MarieIG]

Can you buy it, put DB in an apartment, and DS in the house? Maybe pay DB monthly (to cover the cost of the apartment).

Yes, I agree with Old Shooter. Don't do anything before retaining a very experienced real estate attorney.

 

[old medic]

OP - has said the property is worth $25K , so taxes must be pretty low and maybe this whole thing is a small issue overall ?

Thats one of the things that really PMO.... Sometime Me Off...
With the fines the Tax bill was $146...

As a fan of quality beer, I have spent more than that at Greens Beverage Center.

 

[old medic]

Difficulty of eviction varies state by state, so where is the OP's location?

Near you my friend.... In WNC...

 

[old medic]

I guess I'm missing something. So you don't want to take ownership due to liability concerns but you'd be willing to transfer it to your 11 year old grandson.

It was more of way to set it up that he gets it in the long run if anything is left. Its not that big a deal in the aspect since our place would eventually go to the Grandkids anyway.

 

[pb4uski]

Thats one of the things that really PMO.... Sometime Me Off...
With the fines the Tax bill was $146...

If the property taxes are that low then you are WAY overthinking it. Just tell your brother that as a gift to him that you will pay his property taxes... that way you will know that he will not be homeless. But the electric bill might be next and it creates a slippery slope.

ETA: directly, not by giving him the money.

Since you are not associated with the property other than your gift to your brother the owner of paying the property taxes, you will not have any exposure to what goes on there.

From what you wrote, if you eventually inherit the property it will probably be a wreck and not worth much of anything, but that's ok. At that point you can decide to either accept the property, decline the inheritance (it would then go to the next relative in line in accordance with the intestate rules in your state assuming that your brother doesn't have a will or he could have a will giving the house to your son who could decline it if the house is a wreck), of just have the estate stop paying the taxes and let it go up for tax sale as a way of disposing of it.

I'd keep the 11 year-old gransdon out of the mess.

 

[dmpi]

I wouldn't buy the house because the last thing I would want is a property in my name with irresponsible people living in it. If someone does something stupid you will be named on a lawsuit. Or your brother finally leaves one day and then you're stuck trying to get rid of his squatter friends.

+1
Classic example where an asset becomes a huge liability.

Also if you do pay off his property tax, make sure you actually pay the bill yourself. Don't give him the money to pay it off.

 

[old medic]

I want to say thanks to everyone for your input.... part of the reason this place is one of my favorite forums.
We have already paid the taxes up to date. Its now trying to address the future aspect of it.

 

[OldShooter]

Well good news that the taxes are not a major burden anyway.

No change on the attorney recommendation, however. One high priority would be the "what-ifs." What if you die first and the situation is left to DW? What if brother ends up needing a conservator? Will you do that (probably not a good idea), but a state-appointed and paid conservator might not be what you want either. What about future health and legal problems? Do you want health and financial affairs POAs (probably not a good idea)? Will you be his executor (probably not a good idea)? Your attorney will almost certainly echo the advice here to not get legally involved with the property, but ask and listen. Good luck! This is not what any of us envisioned for our retirement.

 

[ivinsfan]

Thats one of the things that really PMO.... Sometime Me Off...
With the fines the Tax bill was $146...

As a fan of quality beer, I have spent more than that at Greens Beverage Center.

Pay it before the fines and put it out of your mind. It sounds as if your DB has a few struggles. I'd pay that amount of money to keep a virtual stranger off the street. Life is hard....

 

[Teacher Terry]

Now that I know how cheap the taxes are I would just put them on autopay every year and forget about it. It does blow my mind that he risked losing his house over that tiny amount of money.

 

[Out of Steam]

Now that I know how cheap the taxes are I would just put them on autopay every year and forget about it. It does blow my mind that he risked losing his house over that tiny amount of money.

True, it's not enough value to bother with the legal machinations of property transfers or establishing a trust.

 

[MarieIG]

Based upon that amount of tax - if you are concerned about liability - for now - just pay the taxes (timely).

 

[Calico]

The value of the property is stated as $25,000. I'm having difficulty picturing a house of that value actually being habitable.

 

[old medic]

The value of the property is stated as $25,000. I'm having difficulty picturing a house of that value actually being habitable.

Its a small shack of a house, but a dry roof over his head.

 

[pb4uski]

Then I suggest that you monitor whether or not he has paid his taxes and if he is about to go in arrears then you could pay them...that will give you peace of mind that he has a roof over his head but at the same time leaving him responsible to pay it which means less money for alcohol.

 

[Music Lover]

Its a small shack of a house, but a dry roof over his head.

And that's more than enough for some people.

 

[yclipse]

A minor can own real estate. He just can't do anything with it. He cannot sell it, rent it out, or even hire a contractor to do repairs.

 

[engineernerd]

I agree with those who suggest just paying the taxes.

If having a shot at being repaid out of the proceeds whenever the house sells is worth paying the county's recordation fee, you could try signing a mortgage contract with your brother (and getting it recorded against the home's title).

I recommend the mortgage contract say that all loan disbursements will be at the discretion of the lender (you), and the loan must be repaid in full out of the proceeds of the home's sale (i.e. the loan is not assumable).

Given the low market value of the home, plus the many risks to its continued value posed by the combination of alcohol abuse, cigarette smoking and bad friends, I would not recommend spending on upkeep. Probably ditto insurance.

Are you close enough to your brother to get him to talk about what happened to him? Kind of sounds like some emotionally traumatic event threw him for a loop.

 

[Calico]

Its a small shack of a house, but a dry roof over his head.

I am glad he has a safe place to live.

He is lucky to have you in his corner, as well.