Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion

[stephenson]

explanade,

I agree!

American car companies tend to believe their own marketing and statistics - and power within the companies comes from sales numbers.

So, the light truck folks flex their muscles and say, "Our sales are the highest so we need to go EV first." Way better to have built small EV SUVs.

 

[Midpack]

I was in Thailand and happened to walk by a BYD dealer.

I have photos somewhere that I took.

Cars were tiny and the external plastics looked cheap.

Saw a few BYDs also being driven on the streets.

Apparently in Europe, they'd be priced at least 50% more than they are in China, after they account for maybe safety compliance and tariffs.

So they may be selling well in China vs. Tesla but doesn't seem to be quite in the same class. Maybe they have more expensive models that they don't export to markets like Thailand.

BYD has bottom end cars for markets where that's what consumers can afford. But they are increasingly going up market, with EVs at least. See the Seal and the Han below. Does this look like what you saw in Thailand?

Americans scoffed at the Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla when they landed here, now we have many more upscale Honda and Toyota models plus Acura and Lexus (highly coveted by many). Hopefully we've learned a lesson on complacency?

https://www.byd.com/us/car/han

 

[RetMD21]

I wonder if this 2022 vs 2023 sales information explains some of the stories about disappointing EV sales growth. link https://cleantechnica.com/2024/01/29/tesla-model-ys-huge-growth-in-us-sales-visualized-charts/ The thumbnail is blurry but at the link you can see that the Model Y accounts for almost all of the increase in unit sales in the US

 

[audreyh1]

I wonder if this 2022 vs 2023 sales information explains some of the stories about disappointing EV sales growth. link https://cleantechnica.com/2024/01/29/tesla-model-ys-huge-growth-in-us-sales-visualized-charts/ The thumbnail is blurry but at the link you can see that the Model Y accounts for almost all of the increase in unit sales in the US

Yeah, I would say that pretty much nails it.

The Tesla Model Y has become not just Tesla’s star player, but also the USA’s and the world’s standout BEV, carrying the flag forward for the electric vehicle transition. It has become not just the top selling electric vehicle but the top selling vehicle.

Thanks for the link!

 

[Midpack]

Now that other EV brands are slowly gaining access to some Tesla superchargers, I was wondering if they'd have to pay a premium for use. Now we know, at least here at the outset - the same will have to apply to all other makes. Tesla owners deserve some priority at superchargers IMO.

Now that Tesla is onboarding Ford EV owners on the network, we are learning more about the business behind it and Tesla’s approach.
Unsurprisingly, Tesla is charging Ford EV owners differently than Tesla’s own EV owners. Looking at the costs at different charging stations in the US and Canada, it looks like Tesla is charging Ford EV owners about a 30% premium per kWh of charging at Superchargers on average.

That can get expensive really quickly.

Tesla offers a solution. Non-Tesla EV owners, like Ford’s EV owners, can pay a $13 per month Supercharging membership to pay the same price per kWh as Tesla owners.

 

[RetMD21]

I find it annoying that some of the non-Tesla cars will need to take up 2 spots because of placement of the charging port

 

[braumeister]

I find it annoying that some of the non-Tesla cars will need to take up 2 spots because of placement of the charging port

Why? Couldn't they just back into the space if the cable isn't long enough?

 

[homestead]

Why? Couldn't they just back into the space if the cable isn't long enough?

Fords have their charge port on front driver's side.

 

[braumeister]

Fords have their charge port on front driver's side.

So does my Volvo, but I've used Tesla destination chargers many times.

Maybe it's just the superchargers that have short cables? I guess that would explain it.

 

[homestead]

Tesla is working on an extension cable.

 

[audreyh1]

The cable at the supercharger is super short (to minimize power loss) which makes parking tight. This will be interesting.

 

[Midpack]

So does my Volvo, but I've used Tesla destination chargers many times.

Maybe it's just the superchargers that have short cables? I guess that would explain it.

Destination chargers aren’t like Tesla superchargers as you know, most EV owners aren’t interested in destination chargers as many are very slow and unreliable with unpredictable availability. The cables on most Tesla SCs are very short and designed to reach the charge ports on backed in Teslas - drivers side rear. Unless the non-Tesla has its charge port drivers side rear or passenger side front, the non-Tesla would tie up two spaces (even without straddling spots in some cases) and render a charger unavailable to a Tesla. Rivians new models show the charge port passenger side rear, why on earth?

 

[explanade]

Interesting announcements from Rivian this week.

They sound great on paper but won't arrive until 2026 at the earliest.

Company may not last that long, their well-received truck and SUV models are high-priced so not going to generate a lot of unit volumes.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

Now that other EV brands are slowly gaining access to some Tesla superchargers, I was wondering if they'd have to pay a premium for use. Now we know, at least here at the outset - the same will have to apply to all other makes. Tesla owners deserve some priority at superchargers IMO.

As long as it's competitive with the other DCFC networks (Electrify America, EVgo, Blink, ChargePoint, etc.), I'm happy to pay more than Tesla owners. Can anyone tell me what the current KWh rate is? I think I saw rates of 40-60 cents on the networks I mentioned, depending on the time of day.

EDIT: Oh, and my Kia has the charging port on the rear passenger corner, so I probably won't use them until they can lengthen the cables, but I'm looking forward to more choices.

 

[Midpack]

As long as it's competitive with the other DCFC networks (Electrify America, EVgo, Blink, ChargePoint, etc.), I'm happy to pay more than Tesla owners. Can anyone tell me what the current KWh rate is? I think I saw rates of 40-60 cents on the networks I mentioned, depending on the time of day.

EDIT: Oh, and my Kia has the charging port on the rear passenger corner, so I probably won't use them until they can lengthen the cables, but I'm looking forward to more choices.

There is no blanket rate. Depends on the cost of electricity at each supercharger location. Some superchargers offer peak/off peak rates also depending on local utility rate structure. There may also be idle fees. You can see the rate for any individual supercharger by tapping on it in Tesla nav or the online supercharger website (available to anyone). Last summer rates ranged from $0.25 to $0.50 per kWh.

 

[audreyh1]

As long as it's competitive with the other DCFC networks (Electrify America, EVgo, Blink, ChargePoint, etc.), I'm happy to pay more than Tesla owners. Can anyone tell me what the current KWh rate is? I think I saw rates of 40-60 cents on the networks I mentioned, depending on the time of day.

EDIT: Oh, and my Kia has the charging port on the rear passenger corner, so I probably won't use them until they can lengthen the cables, but I'm looking forward to more choices.

A lot of the TX superchargers are charging $0.31 per KWh these days. It’s come down a lot from a year and two ago when $0.44 was more common.

 

[explanade]

Can you see the charging rate they charge in the app before you get to the supercharger?

Or do you have to go to the charging station to see what the current rates are?

 

[audreyh1]

Can you see the charging rate they charge in the app before you get to the supercharger?

Or do you have to go to the charging station to see what the current rates are?

Yes, the pricing is shown on the car navigation screen. You can see all the superchargers in your vicinity including their status and their pricing. You can scroll around to any area of interest and see this info.

You can also look at this info in the Tesla Phone app.

Generally there isn’t such a huge discrepancy among charging locations on my road trips that I bother.

 

[Chuckanut]

Now that other EV brands are slowly gaining access to some Tesla superchargers, I was wondering if they'd have to pay a premium for use. Now we know, at least here at the outset - the same will have to apply to all other makes. Tesla owners deserve some priority at superchargers IMO.

I am wondering about that myself. A new bank of Tesla chargers was installed near me a few months ago. In my estimate they are usually at least 70% full. Often there is a waiting line of anywhere from 2 to 6 Tesla automobiles. If they add in other makes, I can’t help thinking the charging station will be overwhelmed.

I saw one of the new Rivian SUVs online. Nice design.

 

[Chuckanut]

FYI from the Var Dealership guy.

 

[Zathras]

A) Not all stations are opening to non-Tesla vehicles, so there may be zero additional traffic.
B) At most, even if every non-Tesla starts using Tesla superchargers, that is about a 50% increase in traffic. Yes, that is a large amount, but not unmanageable.

 

[audreyh1]

You don’t begin to understand what a monster this thing is until you get up close to one!

Tesla Service Center visit.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

You don’t begin to understand what a monster this thing is until you get up close to one!

Tesla Service Center visit.

You could always blow some more dough....

 

[audreyh1]

You could always blow some more dough....

Not my style ha ha.

It was a Foundation Series model $120K+

 

[Midpack]

I don't even remember where I read this, but I thought it was a good, current summary of the pros and cons of choosing a Tesla among EVs or other drivetrains.

Here's what's good in my book: the breadth and reliability of the Supercharger network, the long-range and high efficiency, the superior technology and software (with regular over-the-air updates and new features), much lower "fuel" and maintenance costs, high performance and sporty driving experience, and the seamless user experience. What's bad? Build quality and paint is much improved (build quality used to be appalling) but still not quite as good as most legacy automakers. And CEO Elon Musk's antics.