15A fuses

retire-early

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The 15A fuses in the fuse box are tripping, and it seems that space heaters are causing this.

I don't even have the heaters set on High.

The fuses don't immediately trip.

What is causing this to happen?
Should I replace the fuses?
 
You mean circuit breakers, right? Not many fuses around any more, and you have to replace fuses, they don't 'trip', they self-destruct.

How many are tripping? How many space heaters? What wattage?

As RetiredAndLovingIt posted, two heaters on the same circuit will probably do it. Doesn't make any difference if they aren't on HIGH. They are ON/OFF type devices, when they are ON they draw full power. So if two come on at once, you are exceeding the circuit rating.

Read up on space heater safety - lots of fires are caused by them, and it sounds like you are using them in an unsafe manner if they are tripping breakers.

edit/add: Also, circuit breakers have a tendency to become more sensitive they more they are tripped. If you keep tripping them, you might also need to get them replaced if they have become too sensitive for their normal load.

-ERD50
 
Space heaters are not the greatest way to go, for several reasons. If you are tripping a breaker, there is likely a fault in the cord or the outlet, causing a voltage drop and raising the current. The byproduct is heat, which further degrades the connections. Anywhere along the wiring that has a connection, there is a little voltage drop under a load like that. You might be heating up an outlet you are not even using, because the current passes through it along the way to that heater. I chased one of those down at a friend's house and it was damn scary when I got the cover off and found cooked wire and insulation.
 
You mean circuit breakers, right? Not many fuses around any more, and you have to replace fuses, they don't 'trip', they self-destruct.

How many are tripping? How many space heaters? What wattage?

As RetiredAndLovingIt posted, two heaters on the same circuit will probably do it. Doesn't make any difference if they aren't on HIGH. They are ON/OFF type devices, when they are ON they draw full power. So if two come on at once, you are exceeding the circuit rating.

Read up on space heater safety - lots of fires are caused by them, and it sounds like you are using them in an unsafe manner if they are tripping breakers.

edit/add: Also, circuit breakers have a tendency to become more sensitive they more they are tripped. If you keep tripping them, you might also need to get them replaced if they have become too sensitive for their normal load.

-ERD50

Yes. Circuit breakers.

I don't have two heaters on the same circuit.
One is in the family room. One is in the study.
They are rarely ever used at the same time.
Yesterday only one was on.
Today only one was on.
They're the typical 1500W ones you buy in stores.
Nothing unusual about them.
I am not sure what "using them in an unsafe" manner means.
They're plugged into the wall outlet.
I press a button to turn them on. I press another button to set to Low setting.
 
I’d have your breakers replaced. They’re probably pretty old and are wearing out and tripping early. Of course, also be sure they’re 15A and not 10A. I doubt they’re not 15A, but obviously something is not right. You could try running them on a different circuit just to see if they trip all circuits our just the ones you’ve used the heaters on.

If the heaters are old - like more than 10 years, you might want to think about a new heater. Is your heater new enough to have tipping protection? Mine has a switch on the bottom that shuts the unit off if it tips. Not relevant to the power draw, but a nice safety feature in general.
 
....
I don't have two heaters on the same circuit.
One is in the family room. One is in the study.
... .

Have you verified they are not the same circuit? Different rooms can share a circuit, it depends on the layout and electrical runs.

...
Yesterday only one was on.
Today only one was on.
They're the typical 1500W ones you buy in stores.
...
I am not sure what "using them in an unsafe" manner means.
They're plugged into the wall outlet.
I press a button to turn them on. I press another button to set to Low setting.

And what else is on the circuit with the heater? The combinations could push it past the trip point.

You didn't answer the Q about "how many are tripping?". Two different circuits tripping, with two heaters?

Exactly what type of space heater? Again, most heaters will draw the same watts/amps on "LOW" as they do on "HIGH" - it will just run for less time.

Unsafe is overloading a circuit. While it is possible your circuit breakers are over sensitive, I'd rule out an overload first.

In the OP you said they "don't immediately trip." That would only happen if you had a direct short. A typical overload condition can take minutes, even hours to trip.

-ERD50
 
As RetiredAndLovingIt posted, two heaters on the same circuit will probably do it. Doesn't make any difference if they aren't on HIGH. They are ON/OFF type devices, when they are ON they draw full power. So if two come on at once, you are exceeding the circuit rating.

I don't think this is true for all space heaters. In the operating manual for one I have, it says that when operating on the Low setting, the power draw is 800W, compared to 1500W at the High setting. So, if OP is using heaters like mine, running two on the Low setting should be doable (although perhaps inadvisable) even on the same circuit.
 
Your 15 amp circuit breakers are simply just doing their job. Each of your 15 amp circuits will supply a max of 1800 watts of power. You are plugging in a 1500 watt load into a circuit that more than likely already has some power being consumed by other electrical loads lights, tv’s etc. It simply overloads the circuit and the breaker opens the circuit to prevent further damage. There is no
Need to start replacing parts. Lighten the load on the circuit or get smaller wattage heaters.
 
When the breakers trip, are there lights also going off? If so, I would replace those light bulbs with LED light bulbs. You may be close to the limit on total power on that circuit, so look at all the other things on those circuits.
 
Yes. Circuit breakers.

If it's any consolation, I still have a habit of calling them "fuse boxes" and saying "blew a fuse" :)
 
OP. The circuit breaker or breakers are doing their job protecting the wire from the breaker panel to the receptacle(s) you are plugged into.

Do not replace the circuit breaker size with a larger one as this will lead to a hazardous situation since the wire and receptacles are rated for 15 amps.

If a single breaker is causing the trouble, you may want to replace it with one of the same size rating.

Swanee
 
Have you verified they are not the same circuit? Different rooms can share a circuit, it depends on the layout and electrical runs.
-ERD50

^^^This.

I have an electric smoker I plug into an outdoor outlet. If DW tries to dry her hair in the Master Bathroom, pop goes the breaker.

No way you would think both of those plugs would be on the same circuit.
 
edit/add: Also, circuit breakers have a tendency to become more sensitive they more they are tripped. If you keep tripping them, you might also need to get them replaced if they have become too sensitive for their normal load.

-ERD50

I’d have your breakers replaced. They’re probably pretty old and are wearing out and tripping early. Of course, also be sure they’re 15A and not 10A. I doubt they’re not 15A, but obviously something is not right. You could try running them on a different circuit just to see if they trip all circuits our just the ones you’ve used the heaters on...

+2

If after verifying that the space heaters are really on two different circuits, and there are no other appliances on the tripped circuit, yet you still have a breaker tripping, you need to replace it.

A breaker trips by two mechanisms. A very high current such as a short circuit trips it instantly via a magnetic lever. A low overload such as pushing 20A through a 15A breaker trips it via a bimetallic blade that heats up and flexes when a current flows through it. That's why a low overload takes a longer time to trip. And the time may also depend on the ambient temperature.

After a breaker gets tripped several times via the thermal action, it gets weaken, and tends to trip more easily. A weakened 15A breaker will now trip with 15A or less. This is a desirable mode of failure for safety reasons: a fail-safe mode. The breakers are built that way. Imagine what happens if the reverse is true, and a worn-out breaker allows a higher current than its rating to flow through.

In short: once you have verified that there is no way you could exceed the 15A allowed on that circuit, replace the breaker.

PS. Space heaters are often built to draw the max allowed 15A, in order to provide the most heat. This leaves no margin for another appliance or light on the same circuit.
 
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^^^This.

I have an electric smoker I plug into an outdoor outlet. If DW tries to dry her hair in the Master Bathroom, pop goes the breaker.

No way you would think both of those plugs would be on the same circuit.
It happens a lot more times than you would think! If rooms/areas share a wall then most likely outlets are on the same circuit! It just costs more to cleanly separate the circuits by room. Especially the older houses have a very few circuits that share the load beyond your wildest imagination. I renovated a 2200 sqft old home which had less than 20 circuits for everything in the house. Now I have 45 circuits after I rewired the house according to the latest code and cleanly separated circuits by room/area. I still ended up "cheating" for a few outlets (less than 5) where I could just tap-in from the area next to the wall.
 
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^^^This.

I have an electric smoker I plug into an outdoor outlet. If DW tries to dry her hair in the Master Bathroom, pop goes the breaker.

No way you would think both of those plugs would be on the same circuit.

My house has an outlet in the back patio sharing the GFI breaker with the bathroom upstairs! Back then in 1986, GFIs were more expensive than copper wires. So, they ran the wire from the bathroom on the 2nd floor in the middle of the house out to the balcony for lighting, then down to the exterior outlet in the patio.

It's all driven by economics! With copper more expensive, they will not do the above.
 
I don't think this is true for all space heaters. In the operating manual for one I have, it says that when operating on the Low setting, the power draw is 800W, compared to 1500W at the High setting. ...

True, some space heaters will have a low watt setting. But at least IME, it's more common to have a thermostat that just switches the main element on/off.

Since the OP provided such limited info, Occam is suggesting that they are the On/Off type, since the OP did say "I don't even have the heaters set on High." (and the breakers still trip).

... the Low setting, the power draw is 800W, compared to 1500W at the High setting. So, if OP is using heaters like mine, running two on the Low setting should be doable (although perhaps inadvisable) even on the same circuit.

Well, two 800W draws might be do-able (I may explain this in more detail later), but it is against code and not a good practice at all.

Per code, a 15A circuit is de-rated to 80% for "continuous" loads (more than three hours). A space heater can certainly be on "Low" for 3 hours. Two * 800 = 1600, And 1600W/120V =13.333A. But 15A * .8 de-rating = 12A. You are over the code.

That's why it's common to see devices limited to 1440 watts if they could be considered "continuous". 120V ⋅ 15A ⋅ 0.8 = 1440W.


Since circuit breakers have tolerances and and aren't 'smart' devices, they can't protect against this in a precise way. It's up to the user to assure that only one device is on a circuit and there isn't any other considerable draw on that circuit. That's why NEC code is going more and more towards requiring a separate circuit for various appliances (like microwaves, dishwashers, etc), with no other outlets available to plug into to increase the load.

... A breaker trips by two mechanisms. ...

A couple times in recent years, I did a "deep dive" into fuses and circuit breakers for home projects (one line voltage, the others low voltage). There is a *lot* to consider in fuse/breaker choice, if you are trying to provide protection for a circuit that's on the edge of a limit. It often calls for some 'smarts' (timing circuits and comparators, or a uC) and some sort of actual current measurement of reasonable precision. You can spend a lot of time looking through the charts of current vs time vs ambient temperature vs number of cycles of actuation, vs min/max specs and distributions and on and on and on.

Makes great dinner conversation! :)

It happens a lot more times than you would think! If rooms/areas share a wall then most likely outlets are on the same circuit! It just costs more to cleanly separate the circuits by room. Especially the older houses have a very few circuits that share the load beyond your wildest imagination. I renovated a 2200 sqft old home which had less than 20 circuits for everything in the house. Now I have 45 circuits after I rewired the house according to the latest code and cleanly separated circuits by room/area. I still ended up "cheating" for a few outlets (less than 5) where I could just tap-in from the area next to the wall.

But in some ways, this can be a good thing. You might be less likely to overload a circuit that is spread out across two rooms. Could go the other way too, but I don't think it's "cheating" at all.

In a recent thread, someone complained that the ceiling lights and the outlets in a room were not the same circuit. He thought if he flipped the breaker and the lights were out, the outlets should be off too (no, you *always* check before you touch them).

But it's good this way. If you overload a circuit, you don't want to be sitting in the dark. Best to keep them separate.

-ERD50
 
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My house has an outlet in the back patio sharing the GFI breaker with the bathroom upstairs! Back then in 1986, GFIs were more expensive than copper wires. So, they ran the wire from the bathroom on the 2nd floor in the middle of the house out to the balcony for lighting, then down to the exterior outlet in the patio.

It's all driven by economics! With copper more expensive, they will not do the above.

I'm pretty sure present code requires the main GFI to be nearby any chained, protected outlets, so you could hit the test switch I guess.

But then some GFI are in the panel, so I dunno. But I think those are required to be labeled at the outlet?

-ERD50
 
My house has an outlet in the back patio sharing the GFI breaker with the bathroom upstairs! Back then in 1986, GFIs were more expensive than copper wires. So, they ran the wire from the bathroom on the 2nd floor in the middle of the house out to the balcony for lighting, then down to the exterior outlet in the patio.

It's all driven by economics! With copper more expensive, they will not do the above.

Bold by me.

That is exactly my case. Both are on the same GFI, even though they are on opposite sides of the house.
 
Basically, those space heaters are singing, "We're gonna vent our frustrations, and if we don't we're gonna blow a fifteen amp fuse."

[sorry...]
 
+2

If after verifying that the space heaters are really on two different circuits, and there are no other appliances on the tripped circuit, yet you still have a breaker tripping, you need to replace it.

A breaker trips by two mechanisms. A very high current such as a short circuit trips it instantly via a magnetic lever. A low overload such as pushing 20A through a 15A breaker trips it via a bimetallic blade that heats up and flexes when a current flows through it. That's why a low overload takes a longer time to trip. And the time may also depend on the ambient temperature.

After a breaker gets tripped several times via the thermal action, it gets weaken, and tends to trip more easily. A weakened 15A breaker will now trip with 15A or less. This is a desirable mode of failure for safety reasons: a fail-safe mode. The breakers are built that way. Imagine what happens if the reverse is true, and a worn-out breaker allows a higher current than its rating to flow through.

In short: once you have verified that there is no way you could exceed the 15A allowed on that circuit, replace the breaker.

PS. Space heaters are often built to draw the max allowed 15A, in order to provide the most heat. This leaves no margin for another appliance or light on the same circuit.


Agree, your breakers are probably weak and now trip early. Easy fix to just replace them, they are pretty cheap $7-10 range each. If you are not comfortable swapping them out yourself, then the electrician can do it. Less than 1 hour job.
 
Have you verified they are not the same circuit? Different rooms can share a circuit, it depends on the layout and electrical runs.

Because each heater was tripping a different circuit breaker.
 
Because each heater was tripping a different circuit breaker.

OK, this is not spelled out in your earlier posts, which is why I asked. You might say it could be inferred from your comments, but when troubleshooting, especially from afar, things need to be spelled out with exactitude. You've still left out a lot of info that could help you get better answers (what model heaters? What wattage, what else is on the circuit? etc).

I've done a lot of troubleshooting in my life, and trust me, even when you've got "boots on the ground", it is often best to back up to square one, and take nothing for granted.

It can frustrate the person I'm trying to help, "I already did that", "I'm not stupid", etc. And I'm just like, "OK, I know you said you did that, but I'm going to do it, because I want to experience it in a specific sequence, under conditions that I know - I might see/feel/sense something when I do it that you would not have even have known to mention (did the lights dim when the heater cycled?, etc). Do you want my help or not?"

-ERD50
 
Miraculously a licensed electrician came to my house.
I contacted him on Thumbtack app and he answered me.
Apparently he lives close by and was on his way somewhere.

Anyway, the circuit breakers are Siemens ARC.
I will need to go take a photo of them.
He said that there was a generation 1 version which replaced by a generation 2 version since Gen1 tended to trip too easily.
I can't find any information online about this.

I am going to use the heaters normally and see if the circuit breakers continue to trip.

.
 

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