Any Wood Workers Out There ?

[RetireBy90]

Looking for some understanding if you could assist. I'm doing some flower boxes for our back yard and deck. I have built 2 boxes so far, but I found that rain and cold caused them to warp a bit. Go figure . So I started with using our deck stain/sealer on them but then I was thinking about a shellac.

Does anyone have a good understanding of what would be longer lasting and better at protecting the boxes in the elements over time ? I do like the color of our deck stain but I have to apply every 2 years to the deck floor and other horizontal surfaces. I don't want to have to replace the boxes every other year and not really looking to clean them inside if I have to re-apply the protecting seal or shellac.



Thanks in advance

 

[street]

RetireBy90, what kind of wood are you using?

 

[Freedom56]

I'm not nearly as talented as others in this forum for when it comes to woodworking, but I would use either cedar or redwood. I have built several using redwood and one using cedar and have had no issues with warping or rotting even after 12 years.

 

[freedomatlast]

If you're not using cedar, redwood or white oak, you should expect to have to replace them frequently.

 

[RetireBy90]

RetireBy90, what kind of wood are you using?

Well, I built the boxes from a pallet and from some other pine that was headed to the trash. Any ideas on what would work best given that they are pine ? I'm using scrap I have around not looking to buy more wood for this. Perhaps another treatment ?



Thanks

 

[street]

^ like other have said, there are a few wood types that are ideal for planter boxes. If I were to rescue those boxes you have I would use a product like Shingle Oil. Oil may preserve the wood and defend against water, better then stain, paint or shellac. Now, that is just my 2¢.

 

[finnski1]

Looking for some understanding if you could assist. I'm doing some flower boxes for our back yard and deck. I have built 2 boxes so far, but I found that rain and cold caused them to warp a bit. Go figure . So I started with using our deck stain/sealer on them but then I was thinking about a shellac.

Does anyone have a good understanding of what would be longer lasting and better at protecting the boxes in the elements over time ? I do like the color of our deck stain but I have to apply every 2 years to the deck floor and other horizontal surfaces. I don't want to have to replace the boxes every other year and not really looking to clean them inside if I have to re-apply the protecting seal or shellac.
Thanks in advance

In my experience the thing that causes them to warp the most is not rain and snow but sun. You said you made them out of scrap pallet wood. I am sure that stuff was probably never kiln dried and is not high quality wood. I think the best thing to do would be to try to brace them with a cross piece or two. Honestly I wouldn't expect them to last for very many years even with a good coating.

 

[Ronstar]

I would use marine grade spar varnish over your stained pine. Several coats. And you'll probably have to add a coat a year.

 

[zinger1457]

Not too difficult to protect wood from the outside elements with good paint and sealers but with a flower box the wood will be in constant contact with moisture which makes it a lot more difficult. You can buy planter box inserts made of plastic and pvc that will help with the constant moisture contact problem. There are good wood sealers in a spray can that are easy to apply for small projects. Can also buy cedar wood fence boards fairly cheap at the big box store that make for good outdoor projects.

 

[RetireBy90]

Thanks for the responses. I'll try a couple different methods. In a couple years DW will probably want something else anyway

 

[Badger]

I would use marine grade spar varnish over your stained pine. Several coats. And you'll probably have to add a coat a year.

+1 Probably the best choice other than a good quality paint. Shellac is the worst thing to use for outdoor.


Cheers!

 

[ERD50]

Not too difficult to protect wood from the outside elements with good paint and sealers but with a flower box the wood will be in constant contact with moisture which makes it a lot more difficult. You can buy planter box inserts made of plastic and pvc that will help with the constant moisture contact problem. There are good wood sealers in a spray can that are easy to apply for small projects. Can also buy cedar wood fence boards fairly cheap at the big box store that make for good outdoor projects.

+1 on the plastic insert. I'd consider it a necessity (unless you really want to do a lot of work each year to preserve the box).

Even with that, it will probably take some maintenance to keep the wood preserved and looking good. But the insert will help 1000%.

-ERD50

 

[Sunset]

....You can buy planter box inserts made of plastic and pvc that will help with the constant moisture contact problem. ....

+1

Just watched a Martha Stewart old tv show, she made (with help) planter boxes and she just put plastic pots of flowers inside the boxes, and had drilled holes in the bottom of the box.

The planter box was basically for show, as an outside shell.

 

[MRG]

Here's the thing: Wood and water shouldn't mix! Wood rots when it gets wet. Some species, redwood, Osage orange, cedar, deal with moisture better but eventually need work. Keep the water away and use decent materials that don't trap moisture and be done. Oh yeah don't use Osage orange except for a hot fire.

I have a doctorate in going broke in the logging, sawmill, lumber business. Thankfully got out young enough to recover.

 

[TheWizard]

Here's the thing: Wood and water shouldn't mix! Wood rots when it gets wet. Some species, redwood, Osage orange, cedar, deal with moisture better but eventually need work. Keep the water away and use decent materials that don't trap moisture and be done. Oh yeah don't use Osage orange except for a hot fire.

I have a doctorate in going broke in the logging, sawmill, lumber business. Thankfully got out young enough to recover.

Osage orange??
C'mon...

 

[Music Lover]

The planter box was basically for show, as an outside shell.

Yup. Buy a plastic planting container and build a box around it.

 

[MRG]

Osage orange??

C'mon...

Yeah Osage Orange, aka Hedge. It's commonly used for fence posts due to being rot resistant and it's one of the hottest burning wood you can find. It's a bear to cut through; I used to cut and burn it. After getting used to cutting hedge hickory felt like cutting butter. It's still used in corner cases like lumber for boats.

I have never sawn it on a mill, my instinct says it has a lot of internal pressure and might tend to pinch the saw like shaky hemlock will but I never talked with someone who has sawn it. Matter of fact I've seldom seen mature trees that would be large enough to saw. We lived in a place for 10 years that had some mature trees, oddly they didn't fruit.

 

[DaveInMi]

I suggest getting boards cut from cedar trees. Cedar has a natural water repellant and won't break down for a long time. On our place, there are still some cedar fence posts that were installed over 50 years ago.
A close second would be boards cut from locust trees.

 

[Palmtree]

As others have mentioned, wood and water do not mix well in the long term. Stains help but sun and water will do their worse eventually. Exterior grade paint is great if you paint it inside and out and then also use plastic inserts or pots. If you hate the look of paint and want a bulletproof wood, then the best I could recommend is Ipe. It's used a lot on boat dock & decks and is so hard and dense it sinks.

 

[SnowballCamper]

Wood warps because the shrinkage occurs at different rates as it dries. One shrinkage direction is tangential, and the other is radial. When a planter has moist soil inside and the bright sun dries out the exterior, the effect is magnified because only one side of the wood is dry. Good paint is the best to mitigate the effects by preventing moisture changes in the wood, and being resistant to UV degradation.

I have found alaskan yellow cedar to be much better than western redcedar, but for planter boxes not resting on the ground, I would just take them from the cheap cedar fence boards at the big box store.

 

[MC Rider]

What about Trex, like used for decks?
Or hardiboard, cement board, something like that?

 

[lionfire]

PT wood?

Surprised no one mentioned using PT wood - ie pressure treated wood which is rated for anywhere wood contacts ground. Or is it for some reason not suitable for this particular use case (flower beds)? Would love to learn.

 

[Music Lover]

Some PT wood is rated for ground contact but not all so be careful. One of the issues with PT wood is that it's usually unattractive compared to other options.

 

[mountainsoft]

First, select a wood that is naturally rot resistant. Cedar, Redwood, Teak, etc.

Do not use pressure treated wood as the chemicals that minimize wood rot can leach into the soil. Maybe not a big deal if it's just for flowers, but a definite no for vegetables or other edibles.

If possible, line the box with a plastic liner to prevent soil and water from coming in contact with the wood.

If you don't care about retaining the wood look, exterior paint works great for outdoor protection.

If you want to retain the wood look, oil finishes generally work better than film finishes. A deck or fence stain typically works OK. Sunlight will quickly break down a film finish and refinishing can be difficult. Oil finishes can be reapplied easily as they weather over time.

Spar urethane works OK for outdoor wood. It's a bit softer so it can better adapt to wood movement from moisture and sun in an exterior environment. I used spar urethane on a redwood shelf in our shower and it's over 17 years old now. But it gets minimal overspray and no sunlight.

Better yet is Epifanes marine varnish (you can find it on Amazon). It's designed for boats so it holds up fairly well. I used it on a small table that sat outside for a couple years and it still looks great (we have it indoors now). Of course, it won't last forever and at some point you will need to refinish.

If you really want to go crazy, you could apply a Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer (CPES) followed by a top coat of Epifanes varnish. Keep in mind these products aren't cheap and it would probably be more cost effective to build a new planter than splurge on the fancy finishes.

Another option is to build the planter box using PVC lumber. It's available in most home centers now, and you can glue it together using PVC plumbing glue (solvent welding). It can be rather expensive, and comes in any color you want as long as it's white. PVC also expands and contracts with temperature. Probably not an issue for a small box, but a long board may move a lot. Of course, you can paint PVC to any color you want, but you would need an appropriate primer first.

Of course, the easiest option is to build the box out of something like cedar and just let it weather naturally to a soft grey. You would probably get a few years out of it, maybe longer if you put a plastic liner in it. Then just build new planters when they're too far gone.

Also, don't rule out other materials like metal, concrete, or hypertufa.

 

[RetireBy90]

Ok, so just to repeat an earlier reply, these are being done with scrap from a pallet and a shipping container for Cisco router. Material is already in hand. I’m just trying to protect it best I can. I’ll stain to get the color desired then try the marine varnish after stain and live with the results.
Thanks for the suggestions on other woods, they may be handy if I do more projects where I. Have to pay for the wood.