Changed Again, Now Trying for a Saturn VUE (Sorry Kia & Ford)

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html

Well worth the ten minute read.

I have absolutely no sympathy for car sales people or the sales managers. I usually tell them on the phone what we're going to do and how we're going to do it. I'm going to offer them the lowest prenegotiated price I can find, or what one of the national web sites like edmunds reports people are paying for the same car. If they take that price (and I tell them what it is), then fill out the paperwork, wash the car, and I'll be by to pick it up.

They dont have to sell me the car for that price. I'll gladly move to the next dealer with lower overhead or more desire to make a sale.

The very moment they start the shenanigans, I get up and leave. And I told them on the phone I'd do that. Nobody's surprised.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

For those of you that are complaining about car salesmen and the car sales process:

We have the system that we want, based on how we as a group spend our money. The up-front dealer with up-front sales prices and tactics is soon run out of business because Lucky Louie will undercut him by $50.

What amazes me is that people will get jacked around and then still do business with a slimebag dealer.

We don't want good dealer practices. Price is all that matters and we vote for that business model with our money again and again.

- You can't have it both ways

 

[Nords]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

- You can't have it both ways

The third way is to not buy cars from car dealers.

 

[justin]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

I have absolutely no sympathy for car sales people or the sales managers. I usually tell them on the phone what we're going to do and how we're going to do it. I'm going to offer them the lowest prenegotiated price I can find, or what one of the national web sites like edmunds reports people are paying for the same car. If they take that price (and I tell them what it is), then fill out the paperwork, wash the car, and I'll be by to pick it up.

My approach as well. Nothing like walking off when the salesman starts pulling crap. Then watching as they run out the door to catch you as you pull off to let you know "my manager said we can do the deal as you requested after all".

Something about losing a profitable sale motivates them to agree to a lower sales price and a smaller level of profit for themselves.

It's funny how the salesman wants to splinter the negotiations for the car price, the extended warranty and the financing into three separate negotiations, so that you, the buyer, don't have as much leverage in each separate negotiation.

 

[73ss454]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html

Well worth the ten minute read.

I have absolutely no sympathy for car sales people or the sales managers.  I usually tell them on the phone what we're going to do and how we're going to do it.  I'm going to offer them the lowest prenegotiated price I can find, or what one of the national web sites like edmunds reports people are paying for the same car.  If they take that price (and I tell them what it is), then fill out the paperwork, wash the car, and I'll be by to pick it up.

They dont have to sell me the car for that price.  I'll gladly move to the next dealer with lower overhead or more desire to make a sale.

The very moment they start the shenanigans, I get up and leave.  And I told them on the phone I'd do that.  Nobody's surprised.

If everyone bought cars that way life would also be great for the salesperson as well.  But that's not the case.  Many people turn it into a game and the shenanigans are usually started by the customer.  Do you think that people at any point think they have the best price.

I read that article a while back and it is a good read.  I think that SWR should invest 10 minutes.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

My approach as well. Nothing like walking off when the salesman starts pulling crap. Then watching as they run out the door to catch you as you pull off to let you know "my manager said we can do the deal as you requested after all".

Last time that happened, I yelled out the window "Thats nice, good bye...". Later when he called me at home and offered me a lower price, he discovered I had already taken his low price and gotten a lower one from a competitor.

It's funny how the salesman wants to splinter the negotiations for the car price, the extended warranty and the financing into three separate negotiations, so that you, the buyer, don't have as much leverage in each separate negotiation.

Thats easy too. I tell the sales guy on the phone that I am not interested in any warranties, undercoating, trunk monkeys or any other extras beyond the plain car. No, i'm not willing to allow them to make me a proposition. Just have the paperwork done when I get there. And I'll be paying cash as well.

Although I did agree to listen to the lexus guys pitch on the extended warranty because he was a nice guy and didnt jerk me around, but it went for all of 30 seconds.

 

[73ss454]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

Last time that happened, I yelled out the window "Thats nice, good bye...".  Later when he called me at home and offered me a lower price, he discovered I had already taken his low price and gotten a lower one from a competitor.

Thats easy too.  I tell the sales guy on the phone that I am not interested in any warranties, undercoating, trunk monkeys or any other extras beyond the plain car.  No, i'm not willing to allow them to make me a proposition.  Just have the paperwork done when I get there.  And I'll be paying cash as well.

Although I did agree to listen to the lexus guys pitch on the extended warranty because he was a nice guy and didnt jerk me around, but it went for all of 30 seconds.

Are you trying to tell me that you bought a new Lexus without a Trunk Monkey.
I though you were a smart buyer.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

I know...a very foolish move that will haunt me for many years...

 

[yelnad]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

I did not realize there was more than one. This is the one I looked at.

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/toyota/rav4/suv/midsize/index.html

SWR

The 2006 is larger than past models.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

Well would you believe I cannot get the model I want without waiting for a special order for 12 - 16 weeks!

All I want is a Kia Sorento LX 2wd 3.5L Manual with Sports Package (SP), ABS, and floor mats! Not much of a tall order you may think. Nooooooooo. All the ones are Either SP No Abs, or Abs No SP. Who would drive a car today without ABS?

You can get either the Base Model, 5sp Maual with nothing, or the EX with everything you don't need. A difference of almost $9K at the MSRP level. It is almost as if the dealers force you to but the car you really do not want. Not I.

This may send me back to the drawing board. I will be looking at the Suzuki Grand Vitera next. Basically I am trying to get a SUV for $20k or under + Tax and Title. Not too Easy. I wonder how many folk just give in and pay the dealer the extra for a bunch of crap they will never use?

SWR

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

Suzuki's are awful. Awful, awful, awful.

Check out the Hyundai's. The tucson and santa fe are MUCH better cars than the suzuki or the kias. You'd even have half a chance of reselling it for a decent price some day.

I've never really needed ABS. I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to stomp on the brake and I know how to steer out of a skid after 25 years of driving in snow and ice...

As far as the # of people willing to just buy what they have, I think its a lot. Although most dealers will be quite willing to bring a car from a nearby dealer. You might get a list of dealers within a 2-3 hour drive and call them up for inventory if you REALLY want a kia...

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

As far as the # of people willing to just buy what they have, I think its a lot. Although most dealers will be quite willing to bring a car from a nearby dealer. You might get a list of dealers within a 2-3 hour drive and call them up for inventory if you REALLY want a kia...

We have tried the whole country! Not One available.

SWR

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

I found that to be the case with the rav4 I bought my wife. She wanted one with an automatic, leather and a sunroof. Apparently a tough combination because I only found one in california to buy and the dealer knew he had the only one.

That was a tough negotiation.

The Santa Fe was her second choice, with the CRV third. After driving and checking the repair and resale on the escape and grand vitara, we dropped them completely from contention.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

I've got a 1987 P/Up with 110 K miles on it, a 1993 Pvt. Passenger car with 156,000 miles on it, and a 1991 car with 165,000 miles on it.

Go buy your wife a new lexus man, she deserves it!

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

The Lexus LX300 is a KIA SORENTO!!!! With Honda Innerds.

SWR

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

I presume you're being facetious.

 

[justin]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

The Lexus LX300 is a KIA SORENTO!!!! With Honda Innerds.

SWR

That would make it a Frankenlexus.

Hey, I'm trademarking that name, so no one steal it.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

I presume you're being facetious.

NOPE! The complete body assemby is made by Kia. Lexus puts their drive train and trim on it. take a look at it next time.

SWR

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

Got a source for that? I've looked at both cars, not really seeing the similarity.

I'm a little doubtful that toyota/lexus would buy a chassis from a korean company and put a prime competitors drive train in it and sell it under their premium brand name. That'd go down as a bigger PR screw up than the cadillac putting chevy motors in the cars back about 20 years ago.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

One thing I see...the sorrento uses a ladder chassis (typical for a truck), whereas the small and midsized lexus SUV's dont. So I think maybe thats a myth?

I also see that the sorrento and the lx 300 take a very different aftermarket trailer hitch...usually an indicator that the frame is a bit different.

Come on...you're yanking my chain, right?

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

One thing I see...the sorrento uses a ladder chassis (typical for a truck), whereas the small and midsized lexus SUV's dont. So I think maybe thats a myth?

I also see that the sorrento and the lx 300 take a very different aftermarket trailer hitch...usually an indicator that the frame is a bit different.

Come on...you're yanking my chain, right?

NOPE! Look at the body and compare it, they are identical. Remember the Lexus 300 not the 330 they are different.

SWR

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

Oh come on now, you cant tell whats in a car by looking at it.

Give me any credible source, because if this is true, its a big deal.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

Oh come on now, you cant tell whats in a car by looking at it.

Give me any credible source, because if this is true, its a big deal.

well I do not know how credible the source is. I went to 5 Kia Dealers and All of them used it in their sales pitch. I would understand 1 cretin but not 5. Also Kia is also owned by Hyundae. Think about it Lexus would probably do a deal with Kia (If it is true) that would forbid any formal writing of the fact.

The Jax sames manager was so adamant about this in that the Front Lot was a GX300 (I think it is GX) and a Sorento Side by side in the same Body trim and I have to tell you they were identical. Right down to the corny spoiler on the rear hatch.

It is either true or one hell of a marketing ploy.

SWR

 

[lets-retire]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

Good luck with the KIA.  I typically find that the buyign experience is indicative of the ownership experience.  If they don't treat you well before they have your money they sure as heck won't treat you any better after they have your money.

As far as ABS I hate it.  It extends your stop distance.  When I have to slam on the brakes I go to ABS activation then back of a little.  I don't know how many times I slamed on the brakes started to slow down then felt the brakes back off when the ABS kicked in.  I do slam the bakes often, it's called pursuit driving.  Basically I use them just like the old fashioned brakes.  Hit them hard when I feel the ABS start (or the old style the tires lock) I back off slightly.  ABS, like most of the recent improvments, are great for the people who have mediocre driving skills.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Re: Decided on a 2006 Kia Sorento (Sorry Ford)

I went to 5 Kia Dealers and All of them used it in their sales pitch.

That is what we in sales call "a lie". Someone came up with it and told all his buddies. The problem with sales people is that one comes up with a lie and the others glom onto it fairly easily, with rapid spreading power. Somebody who does sales training methinks.

I'll look later on because i'm intrigued. I'm also betting that if the spread continues the first confirmation of whether its true or not is going to come in the way of a 'cease and desist' lawsuit from lexus...