Combining households with elderly parents?

[Ramen]

I've been thinking a lot about housing lately, both for myself during FIRE and separately for my parents. Their house has many stairs and other hazards. They are finally acknowledging this (better late than never) and are thinking about a more suitable place while they are still independent. I'm single and happily renting a couple of hours away.

One idea that has come up is sharing a duplex or larger home with some breathing room. From my limited observations, these arrangements seem to work out when they are intentional.

I plan to suggest a CCRC or independent living place for them, but I don't think they will go for it. They seem allergic to renting or anything that's not owning their home. Maybe this is a Silent Generation thing? If they insisted on buying again at this stage, I would pitch in and then sell the place after they are gone.

My main thought now is how to help them live their final years the way they prefer to, if possible. I realize anything can happen at any time and don't want to have false hopes for an ideal situation. Our family dynamic is pretty good, so mentally I think we could do it. I think! For now it's the logistics I'm pondering.

Regarding finances, they have pensions including health insurance, plus SS and Medicare. Their current house is mostly paid off (no other debts). They could afford a CCRC if they wanted to, but again not sure they can be swayed that way.

I'm FI for a lean FIRE and have mixed feelings about buying into a property I would not want otherwise. I'm happy to be near them and look out for them as best I can, but I'm reluctant to have a large home to care for as well.

Any tales from the trenches about this? Just wondering what else to think about if we continue to discuss the shared housing option. I'm already thinking hired maintenance help would have to be part of the plan, not to mention any medical needs they might have. I'm not the best caretaker type, but I love them and want to do what I can.

 

[tb001]

I have no direct experience. My main observation has been that by the time it happens, it usually only ends up being a few years at most before they need more significant care. In fact, I know of several situations where plans were made and houses were built/purchased/modified and by the time everything came together, parents were already on to a higher care setting.

 

[Sunset]

OP - Are you sure they can afford a CCRC (have approx $400K deposit and yearly fee of $120K) ?

Stair chairs are an option to alleviate the stair issue, comparison shop and they are not too expensive, go with the advertised one on TV and it's pricey. Straight stairs without landings are cheap ~$3K

What are the other hazards in their house ?

By living in the same house, you are basically committing to be the caretaker, which could be a LOT more work and effort than you foresee.

 

[Brat]

Try to find a residence that meets their needs with an Accessory Dwelling Unit or one where an ADU could be constructed. The former owner of DD's home had an ADU in the back, a separate dwelling unit, where the owner's caretaker lived until the owner, a widow, passed away. You could occupy the ADU if it works for you and your parents.

When the time came that neither could live in the house it could be sold. Homes with a permitted ADUs are very valuable.

I agree that caring for the frail elderly can be exhausting, but they could rent out the ADU to help pay for care if you couldn't do it.

 

[Ramen]

I know of several situations where plans were made and houses were built/purchased/modified and by the time everything came together, parents were already on to a higher care setting.

Thanks, I've thought about this. Thus my interest in suggesting a CCRC.

OP - Are you sure they can afford a CCRC (have approx $400K deposit and yearly fee of $120K) ?

Stair chairs are an option to alleviate the stair issue, comparison shop and they are not too expensive, go with the advertised one on TV and it's pricey. Straight stairs without landings are cheap ~$3K

What are the other hazards in their house ?

By living in the same house, you are basically committing to be the caretaker, which could be a LOT more work and effort than you foresee.

Thanks for this too. The CCRCs around here are not quite that pricey, but if they sold their house, they'd have the deposit. Not sure about the monthly fees. Other home hazards are uneven surfaces, brick paths, cramped quarters. Some could be dealt with, but I would not want to live in that house. Too small and also not the best location. Your last comment is a bigger concern -- getting in over my head and ending up needing care myself. I'm no spring chicken either.

Try to find a residence that meets their needs with an Accessory Dwelling Unit.

Yup, thinking about this as well. Still more property than I'd want to manage but definitely considering it.

 

[cathy63]

Are you proposing that they should own the home and you would live there and act as a caregiver when necessary; or are you thinking of some type of joint ownership with them?

Do you have any siblings, or are there any other heirs who might someday have a claim on their estate and be able to force a sale of your home?

Find out about Medicaid look-backs in your state and make sure your own assets are protected.

 

[Ramen]

Are you proposing that they should own the home and you would live there and act as a caregiver when necessary; or are you thinking of some type of joint ownership with them?

Do you have any siblings, or are there any other heirs who might someday have a claim on their estate and be able to force a sale of your home?

Find out about Medicaid look-backs in your state and make sure your own assets are protected.

Joint ownership is what I was thinking, but maybe the other option is better? Would it protect my assets better if I were not part owner?

I'm aware of Medicaid look-backs but not sure what the law is in my state. Need to check on that. I'm hoping they would not need Medicaid given the comprehensive health coverage that's part of their pensions. Is this wishful thinking? I will bring this up with them.

There are no other heirs, just one sibling far away who would need to be in the loop if there's any kind of joint ownership. Not necessarily as a partner but just aware of the arrangement.

 

[rodi]

I have no direct experience. My main observation has been that by the time it happens, it usually only ends up being a few years at most before they need more significant care. In fact, I know of several situations where plans were made and houses were built/purchased/modified and by the time everything came together, parents were already on to a higher care setting.

Agreeing with this point.

We built an ADU for my in-laws in 2007/2008. By 2013, FIL had passed away and MIL was in need of memory care. We built the ADU for the in-laws' needs (wheelchair friendly, etc.) but it now serves as a rental unit and stream of retirement income. But... if we had known that it would be used for so few years we probably wouldn't have built it. Additionally, like your parents, there was a bias to home ownership - MIL was never really comfortable living there full time, and returned to her owned home each year...

I don't regret building the granny flat - but it ended up not serving the intended purpose for as long as we would have liked.

 

[youbet]

My main thought now is how to help them live their final years the way they prefer to

Try to be sure they aren't visioning their "final years" being as they are now but as they might be if/when major health concerns arise.

 

[skyking1]

That situation requires a whole lot of thought. You say you don't mind helping out.
Our personal experiences were quite a bit beyond helping out, and it changes things. You have to be prepared for the relationship with your parents to change significantly as they need more and different help.
You more or less put your life on hold for a time. For us, it was 10 years of battling DMIL's cancer.
I would be far more concerned about that than any financial considerations.
We would do it again, we as a family have come together to take care of many of our elders.
Just put the weight where it belongs. You can work a couple of years to make up for the money, but the time, commitment, and emotional wear and tear are the real things to consider.

 

[cathy63]

Joint ownership is what I was thinking, but maybe the other option is better? Would it protect my assets better if I were not part owner?

I'm aware of Medicaid look-backs but not sure what the law is in my state. Need to check on that. I'm hoping they would not need Medicaid given the comprehensive health coverage that's part of their pensions. Is this wishful thinking? I will bring this up with them.

There are no other heirs, just one sibling far away who would need to be in the loop if there's any kind of joint ownership. Not necessarily as a partner but just aware of the arrangement.

They may not need Medicaid. My parents and in-laws have not/will not need it, so not everybody does. But some people do need to move to a memory care facility or nursing home, and those can eat up a lot of assets quickly.

When you're ready, I would suggest all three of you sit down with an attorney to figure out the best way to title the property and what happens after your parents pass on. You do have a sibling, so presumably he/she will inherit half your parents' estate. What if the only thing they have left is their half of the house you're living in? So then your sib owns part of your dwelling and if they want their inheritance, you either have to buy them out or sell the house.

Maybe it's better if you are the sole owner and your parents pay rent, or vice versa. Or if the caregiving becomes more like a job, maybe they pay you for that work. I don't know the answers, just that these are questions I'd be asking if I were in your shoes.

 

[mountainsoft]

Combine households with elderly parents? Nope, not for me.

We currently tend to both my mom and my mother-in-law. Just a few hours every week or two is exhausting. I can't imagine dealing with their needs every day. I also value my privacy and would never want a parent on the property watching what we do. We have our own lives and our own interests, and don't want either of our parents involved in our time.

My mom lives in assisted living. It's not cheap, but they tend to most of her needs. I only take her to doctor appointments and grocery shopping, and I wouldn't do that by choice. We were never that close to start with, and I'm clearly just her "Uber Boy". If she didn't rely on me for transportation, I would probably never hear from her (she had no contact with me for 20 years before her stroke put her in assisted living).

My wife's mom still lives at home. Even though she has 8 kids, my wife handles the majority of the care giving. She is close to her mom and obsesses about her every need. It's bad enough now with her mom 45 minutes away. If her mom lived on site I would probably never see my wife.

To each their own, but I couldn't do it...

 

[RetiredHappy]

I think parents should simply sell home, then either move into CCRC or buy another single family home. OP stays in his rental.

In my case, I am expected to outlive my husband, baring major illness. My son wants me to move in with him in CA but it won't work for me. He lives in a small 2-storey home. He will either have to move in with me in NV, which he has said he won't, or I buy a larger single storey home in CA and we both move into it. My preference is that he moves here but I think that is not going to happen. I really prefer not to move back to CA.

 

[Sunset]

Here is another issue OP may face. By the time his parents agree they should move into a CRCC , they may not qualify as some (all ? ) CRCC's want the clients to come in at the low effort/need level, so they make extra profit to balance out the higher cost clients at the end of life need level in the nursing home section.

 

[Markola]

I’d be thinking of ways to live near each other, perhaps next door or in the same condo building, but keeping finances separate.

 

[FIREd]

I’d be thinking of ways to live near each other, perhaps next door or in the same condo building, but keeping finances separate.

That’s what I chose to do with my mother. We have separate lives, separate finances but I’m close enough in case there is a problem (medical emergencies but also a flat tire, a leaky washing machine, etc…). I’ve had to set boundaries at the beginning because she was bugging me with trivial issues, which she was perfectly capable of solving herself. For me it was essential to preserve my privacy and to not commingle our finances as we have completely different views on money. Plus she’s a difficult woman who likes things done her way and she’d drive me crazy in less than a week of sharing a roof.

 

[Ramen]

Great thoughts and suggestions. Thank you all. Especially @skyking1 for the sobering reminder of what really matters.

Being the first born and the only relative somewhat close by, I feel like this is going to be my responsibility in the end. Plus we have a family tradition of caring for the elders, which I'm happy to help with. Fortunately we are all still able to discuss details and possibilities, but at some point I expect to do the heavy lifting, so to speak.

The more I think about it, separate homes and finances in close proximity could be the best for all of us. Then the big question becomes location -- their town or mine. They are attached to their doctors but have few friends, while I have a much larger network of friends and other connections in my area. Their location has much to offer as well, so I would not rule it out. We'll see how this part of the discussion goes.

 

[skyking1]

Good luck with getting to the right spot there.

 

[Amethyst]

If necessary, remind them that doctors retire, and even change practices without asking permission. Doctors are ephemeral.

 

[skyking1]

That is the truth! I had a PA I liked, and he was deployed back to the middle east. I was not expecting that.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

Helping aging parents is admirable. I wouldn't consider joint ownership in any form. You mentioned a sibling.....potential problems.

Consider buying a place on your own and renting to them.

 

[MarieIG]

Perhaps a two family or mother daughter with your parents on the street level. Having your own space would allow for some privacy. Their apartment/ home should be handicapped accessible and have an extra bedroom should a sleep-in aide be necessary. As they age, they will likely need more assistance.

Yes, personal experience here. Even if there is an aide, it is necessary to monitor the aide(s), medications, doctors' visits, and overall condition of your parents. It is much easier to monitor if you are right there.

You may want to own the home, with your parents paying rent. They may wish to gift you something towards the down payment.

 

[BubbaChris]

Here's how it worked out for us:
2010 - After long discussions with DW, I pitched a shared-housing arrangement with my parents because of similar risk issues and serious physical decline. If my father could have generated cartoon-smoke out of his ears, it would have been there. He was that adamant about independent living.

2012 - DW and I had been living 30 miles from my parents. But the discussion in 2010 reduced our implied burden, so we moved out of state. We chose a location a single day's drive away, so we could (and have) respond quickly to needs on both sides of the family.

2014 - My father was hospitalized and a cascade of medical issues made continued independent living highly unlikely. My sister and BIL pitched an idea of buying a mobile home two doors down from them so my sister could easily help both parents. Part of what made this a worthy idea is that although it is an older park, they pulled a very old unit off that site and were in the process of installing a brand new one.

I agreed to the plan; however, my father died days later. The level of my sister's responsibility for our mother's care escalated as a result. At the same time, I was taking on managing the financial side of things since dad did 100% of it. It was a rough 2.5 months to get my mom moved, then months more were spent getting her place fully comfortable (e.g. adding air conditioning).

Although my sister was getting paid to help, she hired housekeepers almost immediately. And within the first year she also added home health aides too. Even with the extra help, the burden was cited by her now ex-husband as the tipping point in their marriage failing.

2017 - The overall situation was so sketchy I moved my mom to assisted living near me (400 miles from where she started). We lost at least $40K on the sale of the mobile home, as this was before the current run-up in real estate values.

Someone mentioned new doctors earlier in the thread. Getting mom setup with new doctors had a significant positive impact. We consolidated care under one group that specializes in the elderly. All prescriptions were known by the lead doctor, which lead to tapering off some meds and eliminating others because her previous specialists were only treating the one thing they were seeing her for. For a bit she was more alert and she had fewer complications. I was driving her to all her appointments, and our small-town setting meant nobody was more than 15 minutes away.

Mom died in early 2020, which turned out to be lucky timing. We were able to have my sister and niece here for her final days of hospice care. It would have been a terrible toll on all of us had the COVID lock-downs happened before she passed. Mom would have deteriorated very quickly and phone calls or Facetime would not have been an effective way to stay connected with her.

I may have noted in another thread how mom's care, the mobile home sale, two moves, etc all consumed about $400K from late 2014 through early 2020. That amount was in addition to the survivor's portion of my father's pension being enough to cover her monthly housing costs over that period.

Best regards,
Chris

 

[Ramen]

Thanks for the home aide suggestions and spare room idea.

Chris, sorry for the loss of your parents and the difficult care period. That's a ton of work and money that I would not be able to keep up with.

As for me buying and renting to my parents, I'm afraid it would have to be vice versa. My modest FIRE won't cover a house that size, but my parents' home equity could if we chose the right location.

Or it could cover a CCRC deposit. Some senior places here require little to no deposit, just one monthly payment for room and board. These are "active" independent living only, but they are more ADA accessible than a house, include three meals a day plus light housekeeping, have 24/7 staffing, and can facilitate any needed outside help.

The ones that are 55+ would allow me to live there too if I wanted or needed to be that close. I've heard of adult kids doing this while their parents are living there. When the parents pass on, the kids can move out or stay.

For now the biggest challenge might be getting my parents to act soon before something is forced on them. Mom had major surgery this year with a month of home recovery. I think it was a wakeup call for both of them. I was there for a week, followed by my sib from 1,000 miles away. It took all of us just to manage. All's well now, but what's next?

 

[TriumphTR3fan]

There have been many insightful posts about this subject. Everyone’s experience is different but eventually we all get to the same place.
It’s important to have a lengthy & forthright discussion with your parents. We went through this with my DW’s parents. We started the conversation about 10 years before they needed help & began slowly by taking them shopping or to medical appointments. It slowly changed over time as they aged. We were careful not to get involved in their decisions. They did the same for us. We were fortunate as they did not have a decline in cognitive function.
After my FIL had a stroke my DW quit her job to take care of her father. You really learn what your partner is made of in these types of situations. For us, we grew closer & it was a positive experience. It helped to have short, medium & long term plans that we talked about as their lives changed.
Please DM me if you want to talk about this in more detail. This part of our lives took over 15 years & there’s too much to share in a single post.
The relationship you have with your parents is so individual & one lesson we learned was that caring about your loved ones is much different than caring for them. Some people don’t have the right skills or temperment & shouldn’t do it. It doesn’t make you a bad son if it’s not right for you.