Coming To Grips With Your Own Mortality

[kgtest]

After watching my 45 yr old sister lose the almost 3 yr battle of colon cancer, my outlook has changed a bit. God bless strong opioids that seemingly made her pain tolerable because I could tell she was hurting bad. They say a young heart fights harder and there is truth to that. I just try to be the best person I can be while here, present for my children, caring to my family. I sometimes get hung up on the idea of non existence and need to kind of train my brain to just live and love the moment. Unfortunately nothing lasts forever.

 

[Gearhead Jim]

I grew up in a family that attended a traditional Christian church. During my teens and 20's I was involved in jobs with rather high mortality rates. Reading the history and then going to a young friend's funeral every few months makes you think more about mortality. Is that stuff they teach you in church truth or fiction? Should I try to follow what they say is right, or just "Go for the Gusto!"?

Over time, I grew to believe that the basics I was taught were/are true. No church or religion can fully understand an infinite creator, and we are imperfect people, but we can get the basics right enough to have what Paul called "confident hope."

 

[Toast]

Neither DH nor I have any relatives (e.g., grandparents, parents, aunt's/uncle's) who lived to reach 80. Many died much younger. We must be optimists because we use age 100 for our retirement planning.

Some things are beyond our control, but we do our best to control what we can. For us, that means working to stay physically, mentally, and spiritually healthy. Our Catholic faith provides enormous strength and peace.

 

[Midpack]

It does not change my stance on planning, IMO we all need to plan financially to live a good long life considering our health and heredity. Anecdotal stories, like the one below we learned about yesterday, are NOT a reason to retire early or change plans once retired 99%+ of the time.

Some very good friends from years back, both very athletic, both have run dozens of marathons, dozens of bike century rides, and various triathlons. Outdoorsy, active, positive, upbeat. The husband was out on bike ride a few days ago and got into a terrible accident - he is now paralyzed from the chest down. They're both about 65 years old, retired very early to AZ thanks to two decent COLAed pensions. They are some of the most positive, upbeat, do what it takes people we've ever known - but there lives have been drastically changed forever. He is not bitter and he's already focused on rehab and how to adapt, but our hearts truly ache for them.

Although I don't plan for the worst, we all know life can change in an instant...

 

[Scuba]

Something I've never understood when this topic comes up. Who is going to stop someone (the majority anyway) who really want's to go?

There were almost 46,000 suicides in the US in 2020 according to the CDC. BTW, over 50% of those were by firearms. And surprisingly (to me anyway) that the next leading cause was suffocation with ~27%.


https://www.cdc.gov/suicide/suicide-data-statistics.html

True, if one is willing to end one’s life in this violent way. This would not be my choice. If I ever am in the situation where I feel it’s time to proactively end my life, I’m going to Switzerland for a nice peaceful painless ending that doesn’t leave a gory mess for loved ones to find and clean up.

 

[braumeister]

If I ever am in the situation where I feel it’s time to proactively end my life, I’m going to Switzerland for a nice peaceful painless ending that doesn’t leave a gory mess for loved ones to find and clean up.

That is certainly a good option, although it might be difficult to travel so far when you're in that condition.

There are many states in the US where this is legal. And more are seriously considering it.

 

[Retch The Grate]

On a personal belief level, I'm an atheist, and am pretty sure that when the electrical and chemical impulses that make up our consciousness stop, so does our consciousness. I expect the end to just be a loss of awareness and that's it. For other people I'm of course agnostic, because whatever deity or unmeasurable energy force you want to believe in is literally non-scientific and unprovable, and so there's no way to say definitively that your particular spiritual belief isn't true.

I've found that I'm pretty accepting of the fact that I will cease to exist at some point. I don't want it to happen, but I'm not living with any fear or anxiety about it either, when it happens it happens, and I won't know any more afterwards anyways.

 

[lawman]

I do believe in Heaven and Hell. I believe in the Christian Triune God of the Christian Bible.
I know I’m of bad moral character compared to the standard of God’s moral perfection. I need only to examine myself against the ten commandments to see that I fail every one. From a legal perspective, if I’m guilty of breaking God’s law, he will punish me. If he is just. Which he is. So I’m doomed to Hell due to my own sin. However, in addition to being just, God is rich in mercy. He sent his son Jesus to live a perfect, without sin, life. And then to die on the cross to pay my penalty. So this dilemma between being just and being merciful is resolved through the work of Jesus on the cross. My fine is paid because of what Jesus did for me. Why? Because I trust in Jesus for my salvation and I repent of my sins and am spiritually reborn into living a life in obedience to God’s commands as best I can. Not because it’s required for entry into Heaven. But because of the gratitude for what Jesus has done for me. I’m very far from perfect on this side of Heaven. But I struggle on to live as God wants.

This knowledge of salvation provides great peace to me when considering my own mortality and what’s to come. Think I would be terrified otherwise.

Well said...I too struggle with my own mortality but when I read Ecclesiastes I am comforted to see I'm in good company with the great King Solomon. In the end I believe we are are to acknowledge our doubt, fear God and obey His commandments.. The more I do that the less fear I have..

 

[skyking1]

That is certainly a good option, although it might be difficult to travel so far when you're in that condition.

There are many states in the US where this is legal. And more are seriously considering it.

We are pleased to be in one of those states already. No one we know has availed themselves of that relief, but it is good to have it available. I could see my DS doing so, in the face of her diagnosis.

 

[Koolau]

I'm 57. My mom died at 69. I have no other full genetic relatives. I'm in fairly good health although covid made me lazy and that had its impacts. My goal is to enjoy the next several years being active while I can, traveling, and so forth. Retire in less than 2 years and keep going. Financially I am prepared for 80s or 90s. But I'm not sure I want that. I'm inspire by the saying, live like Raphael not Micheangelo. Michaengelo was a loner who died with lots of money under his bed. Rapheal died of excessive sex with his mistress.

There's got to be a Bob Hope or more like a Jack Benny joke here. Punch line would go something like. "Hmmmm.... I'm thinking..."

 

[Scuba]

That is certainly a good option, although it might be difficult to travel so far when you're in that condition.



There are many states in the US where this is legal. And more are seriously considering it.

The legal assisted suicide in the US is not the same as Switzerland’s. As I posted earlier, there are many restrictions on the “legal” US process that make it very difficult for someone with a terminal disease who doesn’t wish to suffer for years to carry out their wishes. I’m not aware of any state in the US that allows assisted suicide unless the person has less than six months to live. This couple tried to make it happen closer to home but in the end, had to go with the Swiss option.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/01/books/review-in-love-memoir-amy-bloom.html

 

[Scuba]

We are pleased to be in one of those states already. No one we know has availed themselves of that relief, but it is good to have it available. I could see my DS doing so, in the face of her diagnosis.

Make sure you understand the details of your state’s death with dignity laws if you think there is any possibility you or a family member would ever want to pursue this option. I live in CA and the laws here are very restrictive as to the situations where this is allowed. Someone with a terminal diagnosis who isn’t within 6 months of death and doesn’t want to suffer for what may be years before the end has to wait and suffer.

 

[skyking1]

She has a glioblastoma multiforme. The cancer team gave her 6 months before surgery, and now are saying a year after surgery. It is unlikely there would be any number of years, in her case.

 

[SecondAttempt]

There's got to be a Bob Hope or more like a Jack Benny joke here. Punch line would go something like. "Hmmmm.... I'm thinking..."

I don't get the joke!

 

[sengsational]

I believe in the law of the Conservation of Mass which, to me, means that the matter that makes up you is still here after you die, it's just not arranged as a human anymore. This satisfies the everlasting part of an afterlife.

Next time, some of the parts that make up you might be dirt or part of a tree or a bug. When I die I'd like to accelerate that with a "green burial". Stick me in the ground naked and un-enbalmed with a few seeds at the appropriate depth over my body. Maybe being a tree is really cool. I hope I get to find out.

I read about a guy who had an elaborate plan to lay his body out to allow a specific iridescent flying beatle to lay eggs on it. In a day or two, swarms of color would launch into the air. Apparently never happened, but cool idea. Being scraped up from the bottom of a furnace and put in a plastic bag (with smallish fractions of earlier bodies that followed that route) doesn't seem so interesting, but cosmologically probably about the same.

This is something that fills me with dread. I have placed my hope in the "singularity", which basically is a concept that one day computers will advance to the point where we can transfer our consciousness to a computer. Last time I checked the estimate for this is 2045, so I've got to make it to 84. I can accept leaving my mortal body behind if I can retain my consciousness. There is actually a comedy series on Amazon Prime Video that kind of addresses the concept called "Upload".

That's an idea I thought about too. I wanted to believe in it, but I figured there's some "secret sauce" that's going on with the entanglement of atoms that would make the copy hollow. The idea can give one hope for something if they're not waiting for the rapture, though. I'm not buying off on either of those, rather just trying to not hope, since hope and fear are two sides of the same coin, and I'm trying not to be fearful. It's enough for me to know that no human has the capacity to understand the bigger picture ( if there is one), and that really, it's all just an elaborate dance that's playing out, where each of us takes a role and reads our lines.

 

[Koolau]

I don't get the joke!

When you have to explain a joke, it's usually not funny. But I'll show you one of Jack Benny's more quoted jokes that was in the back of my mind due to the implied choice (Raphael or Micheangelo) in your post . (YMMV)

 

[ncbill]

But that’s the point. It’s hard to put something like that in a document. So many variables. Just thinking out loud, it might be better to just appoint someone that you can trust to weight all the variables on your behalf rather than having a “do not resuscitate”.

That's why you appoint a health care agent to make those decisions when you can't...you won't have been able to discuss every possibility but enough that they understand what you want in general so they can apply that to a specific situation.

 

[ncbill]

My concern is that even when you have your wishes documented, many places refuse to act on them.

I used to work in the senior care industry and DNR’s are often ignored.

Sure, there's always the human factor...but that's mostly just a delay.

E.g. even with the bright canary yellow "DNR" posted above your bed in a nursing home or assisted living facility some scared 19-year-old CNA will probably call an ambulance when you start seizing in the wee hours of the morning.

That's what happened with mom as the infection that had been quietly building in her body went septic.

But when the hospital calls you make sure they get a copy of their health care POA (if they don't have it already) and any curative care is discontinued, palliative care only.

The hospital where my mom was taken already had a copy of her HCPOA, so she passed away reasonably comfortably (lots of the good drugs) just a few hours later.

 

[target2019]

I quickly read through this entire thread. I was surprised to see that in 6 pages I saw 1 maybe 2 mentions of Christianity.

Many,I find believe there will be a heaven as an almost sure thing.

Someone mentioned Blaise Pascal. I learned a great deal from Pascal’s writings. Pascal’s wager is much more than meets the eye. It’s not what it seems.

Personally I think longevity is hugely overrated. I’d recommend reading Pascal. He has much to say.

Pascal has stuck with me since my first statistics course. The book and instructor were really special.

“Man is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness from which he emerges and the infinity in which he is engulfed.”
― Blaise Pascal

That seems to put into a sentence the OP's original post. In some way we may try to find something in-between those extremes.

 

[Gumby]

The narcissist's eschatology: "The world exists solely because I exist. Before I existed, the world did not exist. When I no longer exist, the world will no longer exist."

 

[ejman]

Interesting topic. I don't think I deal with it well but my main focus is to live my life knowing that tomorrow is not a given. Frankly, I'm dealing with a big dose of that right now.

A few weeks ago back in June, I would have told you I was pretty healthy. Going about my business and doing fine. Since then, due to an odd/rare autoimmune issue, I have lost all kidney function and am on dialysis the rest of my life unless I get a transplant. Further, the treatment for the autoimmune issue is not a lot of fun plus the way they treat it is to shut down the immune system. All to say, my outlook of living to 90 like my father has now changed. So dealing with mortality is in the front of my mind these days, but it still boils down to one day at a time. I guess that's how I deal with it. Some days are better than others.

Do take care of yourself. Its very hard going from perfectly healthy and active to suddenly being the exact opposite. I was also feeling on top of the world two and a half years ago at age 69. I was looking forward to emulating my Dad who passed at 103 and was quite active well into his 90's. Another rare auto immune disease (Granulomatosis with Polyangiitis in my case) put paid to that thought. The tale of hospitals and tests and more hospitals and more tests and chemo over and over and continuing is not exactly fun. But on the other hand, in spite of it all I'm glad am here and slowly regaining the ability to do some things and get on with life. Hang in there it gets better.

 

[Jerry1]

Do take care of yourself. Its very hard going from perfectly healthy and active to suddenly being the exact opposite. I was also feeling on top of the world two and a half years ago at age 69. I was looking forward to emulating my Dad who passed at 103 and was quite active well into his 90's. Another rare auto immune disease (Granulomatosis with Polyangiitis in my case) put paid to that thought. The tale of hospitals and tests and more hospitals and more tests and chemo over and over and continuing is not exactly fun. But on the other hand, in spite of it all I'm glad am here and slowly regaining the ability to do some things and get on with life. Hang in there it gets better.

Thanks. At some level it's already getting better. I go in for the chemo treatments mid August. Not sure what that will be like. Mainly hoping for a non-event and to get off the steroids.

There were a few other posts where members wished me will, will be in their prayers . . . Thank you very much. Thankfully I'm doing pretty good with the positive attitude and I'm thankful for the support I've received from friends, family and of course - FIRE forum friends. Thanks!

 

[Dash man]

Thanks. At some level it's already getting better. I go in for the chemo treatments mid August. Not sure what that will be like. Mainly hoping for a non-event and to get off the steroids.



There were a few other posts where members wished me will, will be in their prayers . . . Thank you very much. Thankfully I'm doing pretty good with the positive attitude and I'm thankful for the support I've received from friends, family and of course - FIRE forum friends. Thanks!

My nephew had a kidney transplant last year and he’s doing well.
Prayers for you and your family.

 

[ugeauxgirl]

I am dealing with life change- my kids leaving home, and also a dear friend dying of cancer. I am holding her hand as her time gets short and its sobering. She is 6 months older than me.

I have become more spiritual as I have gotten older, or perhaps as I have had time to. I have recently decided that I need to walk the Camino Santiago. Its not a bucket list trip, its a pilgrimage. I can't explain why exactly. Maybe I can articulate it better after I've done it.

I know that I plan to make good health choices and live every moment allotted to me, and hug my children every chance I get.

 

[ejman]

Thanks. At some level it's already getting better. I go in for the chemo treatments mid August. Not sure what that will be like. Mainly hoping for a non-event and to get off the steroids.

There were a few other posts where members wished me will, will be in their prayers . . . Thank you very much. Thankfully I'm doing pretty good with the positive attitude and I'm thankful for the support I've received from friends, family and of course - FIRE forum friends. Thanks!

The chemo infusion nurses are absolute angels in my experience and they are really good at helping patients cope (just got thru my 16th chemo infusion) I don't know if you are getting the same steroid I got (been off it for 6 months now yay!) but another name for Prednisone is "the devil's tic-tac" well earned I might add. Be well.