Credit card fraud

[akck]

What is the resistance in the US from using chips? If it is due to cost, wouldn't the savings from decreased fraud make up for it?

I'd guess it comes from the same objection to the chips in passports. People are afraid someone can just walk by you and read the chip.

 

[audreyh1]

I'd guess it comes from the same objection to the chips in passports. People are afraid someone can just walk by you and read the chip.

It's the merchants who have to upgrade their point-of-sale equipment.

But they will be required to by 2016 anyway.

 

[Grainiac]

This would require US cards to have a chip in them.

We just got back from europe and used our credit cards with no problem and we do not have the cards with the chip. They all used the hand held device at your table. cards never left our sight. I wish they would do that in the usa.

+1

Never had a problem with hand held machines in Europe yet, even with the regular US chipless cards. The only problems from not having a chip-pin card I have experienced with various unmanned ticket machines at train, bus and subway stations. Probably the same goes for pretty much any types of vending machines in Europe these days.

 

[Live And Learn]

My debit card was skimmed this year when I used an ATM. In my bank's own lobby, maybe ten feet from and in full view of the receptionist. Thieves put a gizmo in the card reader and everyone who used it had their card info used shortly thereafter to withdraw money at an ATM some 20 miles away. Pretty brazen of the thieves, pretty embarrassing for the bank (which caught and reversed the fraudulent withdrawals and then contacted me).

WOW - that is super scary ! I only use my ATM card inside a Bank - I thought that was safe ! apparently not !!!

 

[MRG]

What is the resistance in the US from using chips? If it is due to cost, wouldn't the savings from decreased fraud make up for it?

My new FIA AMEX has one.
MRG

 

[Chuckanut]

An unchipped card will work in the US or Canada if a human is present to swipe the card. Sometimes the line to get to that human may be very long. But, when you are at a small train station outside of rural Hicksburg and the only ticket seller is a machine that won't recognize your unchipped card, that can be a problem. That is why I always carry some local cash.

 

[BigNick]

The Point of Sale devices will allow cards without chips to be swiped. There is nothing different about the transaction from what you see in the US except that it takes place at your table. The same technology is in use in Canada.

The handheld devices used at the table can't all take a swipe card yet. Sometimes you have to go to the central register or bar and have the card swiped on the base station. But things are certainly improving. It's just a shame for US store clerks that they are still in theory expected to check signatures. DW's signature is still with her maiden name although her married name is printed on her cards, and in places where you have to sign this sometimes gets her a query even though her signature on the card matches what she just wrote pretty much perfectly.

 

[braumeister]

It's just a shame for US store clerks that they are still in theory expected to check signatures. DW's signature is still with her maiden name although her married name is printed on her cards, and in places where you have to sign this sometimes gets her a query

DW feels strongly about this issue.
In the signature block on all her credit cards, she simply prints:
ASK FOR ID

That has worked well for her for many years.
The sad part is that she only gets asked for ID about half the time.

 

[Walt34]

I refuse to accept a debit card for that reason.

+1

Too many people don't understand the significance of the the protections that are in place for credit vs. debit cards. We use cc's all the time. Don't have a debit card, don't want one.

 

[Rustward]

I think the signature just says that you acknowledge agreement to the terms and conditions of the cardholder agreement. I don't think it is for identification.

Different merchants have different policies about what to look at. Some never even see the card, so they can't be expected to compare signatures. ... and the merchants don't want to slow down the transaction.

If you think it is a good idea, then write SEE ID. Otherwise . . .

Should you sign your credit card or write 'See ID' on it

 

[MRG]

I think the signature just says that you acknowledge agreement to the terms and conditions of the cardholder agreement. I don't think it is for identification.

Different merchants have different policies about what to look at. Some never even see the card, so they can't be expected to compare signatures. ... and the merchants don't want to slow down the transaction.

If you think it is a good idea, then write SEE ID. Otherwise . . .

Should you sign your credit card or write 'See ID' on it

Interesting, I've never signed any card up front. Even if I do you can't see anything in 2 days. A couple of times I was asked, I signed and proved id. But 2 days later that little strip was clear again.
MRG

 

[H2ODude]

We travel abroad frequently, and I admire the European system of handheld readers at the table. As opposed to some stranger scampering off with our CC to do who knows what. Only whip out the debit to get cash, and then am careful. It boggles my mind to be in the middle of nowhere in South Africa or the like, and go to this machine in front of some nondescript building and voila! Get a handful of local cash!

We only use the debit for cash. I know folks who have had trouble getting their cash refunded to their account when fraud occurred with their debit card. The protections are so much better with cc. And, I'm not aware of any substantial rewards with debit. Admittedly I had not cashed in my points on my Fidelity Retirement Rewards Amex for a few years which is what we charge everything we can to. This afternoon I did. Over $2300 cash! I don't care to carry different cards for different rewards, I'll just take the 2% cash back any day. Carry the Amex for everything we can, and a MasterCard for those that won't take the Amex. Keep life simple. I'll bet I spend no more than $50 cash a month.

 

[BuysToys]

This would require US cards to have a chip in them. Card fraud is way down in Europe since the introduction of chips, although there's always the possibility to steal the number, expiration date, and CVC code from the back, then use it online. (I scratch off the CVC code from my card and keep it noted separately in code form; you never need it when shopping in the real world.) We use our PIN code instead of a signature, which means that poorly-paid clerks don't also find themselves having to determine, with no training, if your signature is correct or not.

I don't remember where I was shopping last week, but I did have to enter the CVC code from my card on the swipe pad for verification rather than giving my signature. Maybe some US companies are consolidating their on-line POS systems with their brick and mortar systems?

 

[MRG]

I don't remember where I was shopping last week, but I did have to enter the CVC code from my card on the swipe pad for verification rather than giving my signature. Maybe some US companies are consolidating their on-line POS systems with their brick and mortar systems?

Don't know, never been asked for it other than online. My AMEX from Fidelity frequently ask me to enter my zip code.
MRG

 

[SJ1_]

We're on a road trip and we just got a message from our primary credit card to call the fraud number. Somebody charged $0.01 to a clothing company and then $498 to an electronics retailer yesterday and so, natch, we are now down one credit card. This seems to happen every time we travel. I guess that we are going to switch to old-fashioned cash for restaurants from now on. Any other thoughts? We are carrying a second card and we are smart enough not to use the debit card in anything other than automated card readers personally or while we watch. I wish restaurants in the US would get hand held card readers like the Europeans use.

Never once had a problem w/ CC fraud and I charge everything I can and
travel a lot. Guess I am overdue.

Have 3 diff. cards just in case.

 

[Alan]

After my CC was cloned in the summer, when I got my new card I scratched off the CVC code. I don't know if this tactic would have saved it from being cloned, since after it was cloned all the purchases were made in person at various stores 2,000 miles from where I live.

Still, having no visible CVC code on the card makes me feel just a little safer.

 

[audreyh1]

Don't know, never been asked for it other than online. My AMEX from Fidelity frequently ask me to enter my zip code.
MRG

Yeah - I like that billing address check - very clever.

 

[Alan]

Yeah - I like that billing address check - very clever.

+1

My Amex often asks for a zipcode as well. I wouldn't mind if it did so all the time.

 

[Chuckanut]

Here we go again?

Multiple sources in the banking industry say they are tracking a pattern of
fraud on cards that were all recently used at Irving, Texas-based Michaels
Stores, an arts-and-crafts retailer that has more than 1,100 stores in the
United States and Canada.

Sources: Card Breach at Michaels Stores — Krebs on Security

In case your idea of living below your means is different than mine

Earlier this week, Neiman Marcus revealed that the breach at its stores extended from July 16, 2013 to Oct. 30, 2013, and may have impacted more than 1.1 million customer cards.

 

[Alan]

Just used my CHIP card in Walmart

We went to our usual Walmart today and at the checkout I swiped my Penfed CHIP & PIN card as usual and the clerk said, "it looks like you have a CHIP card, you need to push it into the slot at the bottom". I did so and after reading my card up popped the usual signature box. So, I know that the CHIP works, and that our Walmart has now upgraded to CHIP & Signature and insists on using the CHIP for authorization even though the card still has a magnetic stripe which I've used everywhere else to date.

I guess I'll find out in 10 days or so if the PIN works when we go to Canada.

All in all it was a successful morning as we stopped into Walmart on the way back from the airport having had our interviews for the Global Entry / Trusted Traveler program. The emails confirming our approval were waiting for us when got home. Something else to try out on our upcoming flights

 

[kcowan]

I guess I'll find out in 10 days or so if the PIN works when we go to Canada.

If you want to use an ATM, I know that HSBC works with CHIP cards here in Mexico so should work in Canada.

 

[Alan]

If you want to use an ATM, I know that HSBC works with CHIP cards here in Mexico so should work in Canada.

Good to know - thanks.

 

[kcowan]

Also, some retailers (e.g. restaurants) will ask you to go to their cash to enter your PIN. Not a big problem in Canada, mostly smaller/independents.

 

[audreyh1]

We went to our usual Walmart today and at the checkout I swiped my Penfed CHIP & PIN card as usual and the clerk said, "it looks like you have a CHIP card, you need to push it into the slot at the bottom". I did so and after reading my card up popped the usual signature box. So, I know that the CHIP works, and that our Walmart has now upgraded to CHIP & Signature and insists on using the CHIP for authorization even though the card still has a magnetic stripe which I've used everywhere else to date.

I guess I'll find out in 10 days or so if the PIN works when we go to Canada.

All in all it was a successful morning as we stopped into Walmart on the way back from the airport having had our interviews for the Global Entry / Trusted Traveler program. The emails confirming our approval were waiting for us when got home. Something else to try out on our upcoming flights

We got our Penfed chip and pin cards this week. I had read that many Walmarts now require you to insert a chip card in a slot rather than swipe. But they don't seem to ask for the pin, so it's only a partial test.

 

[audreyh1]

If you want to use an ATM, I know that HSBC works with CHIP cards here in Mexico so should work in Canada.

But I don't think you want to use a credit card at an ATM as cash advances generate high fees and interest charges.

Although I've used ATMs just to check pins on credit cards - doing some type of inquiry.