Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion

[Midpack]

here you go, build your own!:

https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/blazer-ev/build-and-price/trims

Moderately equipped, RWD, one option package (RS model) ends up around $62+ K. Ugh! I'm glad I bought my 2023 Bolt EUV with all the options for just over 1/2 this cost.

Blazer has est 324 miles range and weighs in at 6,600 pounds.

According to the site linked above, the Blazer went on sale "Summer 2023." Their Q3 sales were 19 units...

 

[aja8888]

According to the site linked above, the Blazer went on sale "Summer 2023." Their Q3 sales were 19 units...

I think GM is making a big mistake with these pretty nice EV's by pricing them so high. Other manufacturers are doing the same, hence the slow sales worldwide (except China, I would guess).

GM reversed their decision on the Bolt production ending, and that is (was) their bread and butter car for those not wanting to spend more than $30 K for an EV. But they are not making any more Bolts until 2025 so there will be a lot of disappointed people next year. Every one that has hit the sales lot this year is taken.

Also, the EV Equinox is scheduled for 2024 and that will be pricey also. When are the domestic manufacturers going to get the message that very few people want to pay up for a EV when you can get a nice Tesla for less? I mean, this kind of decision is not rocket science.

I'm glad I bought my Bolt, and it's extremely nicely equipped @ $35 K out the door, not including the $7,500 tax credit I will get soon. No way would I spend nearly $70 K for a GM EV, and my Bolt friends will not do that either.

 

[yakers]

Love DW's Bolt, the market no one is interested in (maybe doesn't exist) is a SMALL EV, the Bolt is as large as we want, had a Ford Focus Electric and I liked the BMW i3, Fiat500E and Mini and Smartfor2. I'm guessing the Chinese will dominate this market. Maybe I'm wrong and Americans want larger cars but so much room for a cheap around town EV charged only at home. Save the ICE SUV for road trips and hauling stuff.

 

[RetMD21]

Freeing up the Lake Orion facility for the Silverado was one of the reasons for stopping the Bolt production but now Silverado is pushed off a year and they are laying off workers. I imagine the disappointing sales of the Lightning is making GM more cautious. It will be interesting to see if Tesla has the same pre-order/purchase problem with the Cybertruck.

https://www.mlive.com/politics/2023...ing-off-more-than-1300-michigan-workers.html?

 

[Midpack]

I am not in the market, not a truck person to begin with, but this is a technology marvel like it or not. I thought they had lost their minds on first look, but it's grown on me such that I like it now - but then I tend to like things that are different. Though not all depositors will follow through, they have 4-8 years worth of deposit-buyers. FWIW

 

[joesxm3]

There was some complaint a while ago about lack of blind spot indicator on tesla. The latest update adds a red zone on the side of the turn signal camera window if something is in the blind spot.

First time out with the new update FSDb scared me because it seemed to be trying to pull out in front of an oncoming car after a mail truck turned in possibly blocking its field of view. Of course I overrode so I will never know for sure. But better safe than sorry.

 

[RetMD21]

IDK if folks are tired of Cybertruck videos but I think the Jay Leno one is good. They actually go off road a little bit.

 

[audreyh1]

Jay Leno Tesla videos are always a hoot. I might actually watch this one. Thanks.

 

[RetMD21]

Sadly GM has had to stop sales of the Blazer pending a software fix:

https://www.kolotv.com/2023/12/25/gm-pauses-sales-chevy-blazer-ev-over-software-issues/

 

[audreyh1]

IDK if folks are tired of Cybertruck videos but I think the Jay Leno one is good. They actually go off road a little bit.

This has been great. Lots of info, haven’t quite finished yet, but definitely was the one for me to watch.

Jay has a great talk with both these Tesla gurus. I got a much better feel for the “why” of the Cybertruck and the numerous innovations. Overall very insightful.

 

[audreyh1]

Sadly GM has had to stop sales of the Blazer pending a software fix:

https://www.kolotv.com/2023/12/25/gm-pauses-sales-chevy-blazer-ev-over-software-issues/

Owners will need to bring the vehicle to a dealer to get the update.

Uh oh!

 

[joesxm3]

So the Tesla over the air update is a recall, but bringing the blazer to the dealer is only an "update"?

 

[audreyh1]

It depends on whether the NHTSA is involved.

 

[Midpack]

So the Tesla over the air update is a recall, but bringing the blazer to the dealer is only an "update"?

I wish they’d stop that nonsense too. My Tesla “recall” was resolved via an over the air software update (2023.44.30.6) while I was asleep a couple nights ago - like the other 2 million owners. It was a voluntary change to appease NHTSA. All it does is increase auto steer nags, do all cars with LKAS/ACC need a “recall?”

But GM stops sales and physically recalls the Blazer EV and it’s an update. BS

Tesla is recalling around 2 million of its vehicles in the U.S. to fix Autopilot features that auto safety regulators found to be confusing to drivers, or too easy for them to misuse and abuse. While Tesla did not concur with the agency’s analysis, according to the filings, the electric vehicle maker agreed to issue a voluntary recall and roll out an “over-the-air software remedy” to fix the problems.

 

[aja8888]

For many years, GM and other manufacturers have been doing software updates through a computer interface at franchised dealers. I remember bringing my Hyundai in for just that service. I suspect that method has been preferred by them (franchised dealers) instead of over the air (OTA) updates like Tesla does. I would guess that Tesla has chosen OTA updates since they don't have franchised dealers.

GM does do OTA updates on the infotainment system in some of their cars though.

 

[audreyh1]

It really bugs me that there are enough idiotic people determinedly overriding the Tesla user watchdog sensing such that Tesla was forced to increase their penalties and enforce lockouts of some features. It’s ridiculous. I know it won’t likely affect me because I do keep my hands on the wheel and pay attention. Sometimes I have to provide a little torque on the wheel to prove my hands are on it. Whatever. I just can’t imagine playing around with such a thing while driving. But I do read on some forums people bragging about their stupid tricks. I guess they don’t take driving seriously.

I wish they’d stop that nonsense too. My Tesla “recall” was resolved via an over the air software update (2023.44.30.6) while I was asleep a couple nights ago - like the other 2 million owners. It was a voluntary change to appease NHTSA. All it does is increase auto steer nags, do all cars with LKAS/ACC need a “recall?”

But GM stops sales and physically recalls the Blazer EV and it’s an update. BS

Yeah, that gets me too.

 

[REWahoo]

I guess they don’t take [-]driving[/-] living seriously.

FIFY

 

[audreyh1]

FIFY

Yeah, seriously!

 

[Midpack]

For many years, GM and other manufacturers have been doing software updates through a computer interface at franchised dealers. I remember bringing my Hyundai in for just that service. I suspect that method has been preferred by them (franchised dealers) instead of over the air (OTA) updates like Tesla does. I would guess that Tesla has chosen OTA updates since they don't have franchised dealers.

GM does do OTA updates on the infotainment system in some of their cars though.

Our point was how is a Tesla voluntary OTA software update done in your garage in 20 minutes labeled a recall, while a mandatory appointment AT a GM dealer to fix a software problem an update? If GM is well versed in OTA updates, why not this one?

Tesla controls all the software in their vehicles by design, legacy automakers do not. Ford CEO Jim Farley admitted last year that they don’t control most of the software in their cars, as many as 150 of their suppliers do. GM and all other legacy automakers have this issue substantially - it’s been the industry model for many decades. It’s one of the key reasons legacy auto is many years behind Tesla in EV technology. Ford, GM, VW, Hyundai, and the others can’t just take parts back in house after farming them out to 150 suppliers for decades. And getting 150 suppliers, many who contract with some/many automakers and other industries, aren’t all going to get on the same (software) page overnight or give up their IP.

“We farmed out all the modules that control the vehicles to our suppliers because we could bid them against each other," said Farley. "So Bosch should do the body control module, someone else to do the seat control module, someone else to do the engine control module. We have about 150 of these modules with semiconductors all through the car. The problem is that the software is all written by 150 different companies and they don't talk to each other," Farley said. "So even though it says Ford on the front, I actually have to go to Bosch to get permission to change their seat control software. Even if I had a high-speed modem in the vehicle and I had the ability to write their software, it's actually their IP.”

What Tesla can update OTA is far more comprehensive than any legacy automaker - there’s no comparison. Legacy automakers OTA updates are mostly infotainment, maps, OnStar and the like. Most legacy auto “OTA updates” are still a several hour process uploading from a computer to a USB, taking it to car and letting it update. I know because I’ve done it on Hondas, Toyotas, Subarus and Hyundais many times - it’s a PITA. Or you pay your dealership to do it there for you for $250. With Tesla you can be asleep as the car is updated via WiFi.

Not only is legacy auto very limited in what they could do OTA, they (dealers) want you to go the dealership for recalls, so they can sell you on other paid services you may or may not need. Another tradition that legacy dealers are going to fight tooth and nail to preserve.

I applaud moves to true hands off OTA updates like Tesla does been doing routinely for years. It’s a painless as updating your iPhone, iPad, etc. Here’s a recent example of a GM OTA update, a problem identified in July and not fixed in October? https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/10/gm-to-change-its-over-the-air-update-procedures-exclusive/

After making its debut with the 2020 Cadillac CT5, the GM Global B electric architecture can now be found in several General Motors products across its brands, allowing for quick and efficient handling of software issues through the use of over-the-air (OTA) updates. Now, GM Authority has exclusively learned that the Detroit-based automaker is revamping the way it goes about OTA software updates.

First, some insight as to why this revision is warranted. Over the course of Summer 2023, roughly 4,000 vehicles across the Global B platform – mainly vehicles like the Chevy Colorado, GMC Canyon and Cadillac Lyriq – were left incapacitated after a few updates. In response to this, The General is currently in the process of revamping how it handles OTA software updates. There were reports that some Colorado and Canyon models had their batteries drained following what was believed to be a failed software update. Interestingly, this issue appeared to be entirely random, and affected a small number of vehicles.

Naturally, GM Authority reached out to General Motors back in July for an explanation, to which the Detroit-based automaker responded that it was working on a solution.

 

[ERD50]

I wish they’d stop that nonsense too. My Tesla “recall” was resolved via an over the air software update (2023.44.30.6) while I was asleep a couple nights ago - like the other 2 million owners. It was a voluntary change to appease NHTSA. ...
But GM stops sales and physically recalls the Blazer EV and it’s an update. BS. ...

Our point was how is a Tesla voluntary OTA software update done in your garage in 20 minutes labeled a recall, while a mandatory appointment AT a GM dealer to fix a software problem an update? ...

Midpack - it's not BS, and I think audreyh1 answered this earlier:

It depends on whether the NHTSA is involved.

Per your own post:

Tesla is recalling around 2 million of its vehicles in the U.S. to fix Autopilot features that auto safety regulators found to be confusing to drivers, or too easy for them to misuse and abuse. While Tesla did not concur with the agency’s analysis, according to the filings, the electric vehicle maker agreed to issue a voluntary recall and roll out an “over-the-air software remedy” to fix the problems.

While, the GM_Blazer story is different...

Sadly GM has had to stop sales of the Blazer pending a software fix:

https://www.kolotv.com/2023/12/25/gm-pauses-sales-chevy-blazer-ev-over-software-issues/

From that article:

The automaker says they are not safety-related nor are they related to the Ultium propulsion system or Google Built-In.

So in this Tesla case, NHTSA was involved (whether Tesla agreed or not, and whether the 'recall' was voluntary or not), and in the GM_Blazer case, NHTSA/safety was not involved.

Methinks maybe some Tesla bias is clouding the issue on you?

Maybe the 'legacy' terminology is getting in the way? If it is safety related, it's always been called a 'recall', and I don't think NHTSA is going to change that terminology or differentiate between an OTA software 'recall' or a "bring it to the dealer' software 'recall'. They don't care, they just want it fixed. To change terminology now would be confusing when trying to compare over history.

Another way to think of this - all software changes applied after the sale are 'updates', not all 'updates' are 'recalls'.

-ERD50

 

[aja8888]

Midpack - it's not BS, and I think audreyh1 answered this earlier:



Per your own post:

While, the GM_Blazer story is different...


From that article:

So in this Tesla case, NHTSA was involved (whether Tesla agreed or not, and whether the 'recall' was voluntary or not), and in the GM_Blazer case, NHTSA/safety was not involved.

Methinks maybe some Tesla bias is clouding the issue on you?

Maybe the 'legacy' terminology is getting in the way? If it is safety related, it's always been called a 'recall', and I don't think NHTSA is going to change that terminology or differentiate between an OTA software 'recall' or a "bring it to the dealer' software 'recall'. They don't care, they just want it fixed. To change terminology now would be confusing when trying to compare over history.

Another way to think of this - all software changes applied after the sale are 'updates', not all 'updates' are 'recalls'.

-ERD50

Great post...all factual!

 

[Midpack]

OK. BS was too strong, and the Blazer was not the place to make the argument. [It's been raining here non-stop since last night and I may be bored ] I would think people would acknowledge the difference between a physical recall to a dealership and a painless OTA update at home.

And Audrey made a great point. It's a source of frustration to about 977 out of 1000 accident free Tesla owners (per Lending Tree). There's no denying a small number of Tesla drivers, about 10-15 out of 1000, have made a sport out of deliberately defeating or ignoring the many safeguards Tesla has put in place regarding AutoSteer, Autopilot and FSD. None are to be operated without the driver maintaining full control, ready to intervene, at all times - profusely stated in the owners guides, and while driving with the same "nags" all cars have. Some of the accidents the driver was using AutoPilot as if it was actual full self driving, where it's only lane keeping and adaptive cruise, that's just brain dead! Is that Teslas fault**? Teslas have the same driver assistance nags our Honda, Toyota, Subaru and Hyundai had - but that small contingent of willfully ignorant idiots who own Teslas makes Tesla stand out and have more accidents. **In all fairness I readily admit, Musk's repeated overly optimistic claims about Autopilot and FSD have not helped - Tesla is complicit in that regard. NHTSA might be more effective issuing a gag order...jk

I suspect NHTSA isn't sure how to fairly address the Tesla autopilot situation. They opened the investigation in 2021 and haven't forced a recall. They know the accidents have been mostly if not all driver error, many willfully ignorant by the "driver." Why no formal recall if they're convinced Teslas are inherently less safe? There was a recent Lending Tree data harvest that identified the highest accident and incident rate auto brands (why Lending Tree?). I wonder if the others in the top ten are under similar NHTSA investigations? Maybe give Ram, Subaru, VW and BMW drivers a wide berth too.

https://www.lendingtree.com/insurance/brand-incidents-study/

 

[RetMD21]

Midpack

Maybe the 'legacy' terminology is getting in the way? If it is safety related, it's always been called a 'recall', and I don't think NHTSA is going to change that terminology or differentiate between an OTA software 'recall' or a "bring it to the dealer' software 'recall'. They don't care, they just want it fixed. To change terminology now would be confusing when trying to compare over history.

-ERD50

IDK if legacy terminology is helpful but I am concerned about GM's ability to adapt to changing business conditions. They have delayed their Tennessee battery plant, killed the Bolt (for now), delayed the Silverado, had a poor launch to the Blazer and quality problems with the Lyric. 100 years of manufacturing experience isn't helping them as much as I expected. Toyota and Ford can pivot to hybrid relatively easily but GM is stuck. It's not good for Michigan and not good for the industry.

 

[aja8888]

IDK if legacy terminology is helpful but I am concerned about GM's ability to adapt to changing business conditions. They have delayed their Tennessee battery plant, killed the Bolt (for now), delayed the Silverado, had a poor launch to the Blazer and quality problems with the Lyric. 100 years of manufacturing experience isn't helping them as much as I expected. Toyota and Ford can pivot to hybrid relatively easily but GM is stuck. It's not good for Michigan and not good for the industry.

Interesting TV commercial for GM over the holidays....a new EUV Bolt (it's coming), a Trax (small crossover), and a GMC pickup trio as the basis for the ad. I don't see the point, but, then again, maybe I am too old to figure it out.

 

[Midpack]

IDK if legacy terminology is helpful but I am concerned about GM's ability to adapt to changing business conditions. They have delayed their Tennessee battery plant, killed the Bolt (for now), delayed the Silverado, had a poor launch to the Blazer and quality problems with the Lyric. 100 years of manufacturing experience isn't helping them as much as I expected. Toyota and Ford can pivot to hybrid relatively easily but GM is stuck. It's not good for Michigan and not good for the industry.

Hybrids may help, but legacy auto is all at a disadvantage in varying degrees WRT EVs. I get no joy out of the serious bind GM, Ford, VW, Toyota and all legacy automakers and their unions are in - suppliers, dealers, lobbyists, etc. It may be a painful road ahead, but I hope not as bad as I fear. Ford and VW have acknowledged the issues, GM and Toyota's PR are still in denial (they know full well). At least all the Teslas sold in the US have the highest US content (it's a little surprising how far down the list the "big 3" are). BYD and other Chinese EVs are poised to take more market share worldwide - I hope the US and others fare well or better! Hyundai and Polestar seem to making better progress among legacy auto, and maybe Porsche/Audi but not VW?

[I wasn't that impressed with the Ford Mach E, but I did think the F-150 Lightning looked great on paper. I guess some quality/service issues, dealer price gouging and MSRP increases have hurt them?]

https://www.cars.com/articles/2023-...ndex-which-cars-are-the-most-american-467465/