Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion

Not sure I'm extrapolating, but rather predicting.

Norways has hydroelectric ... the US has solar and wind potential. IMO, our real winner is solar - residential and commercial buildings, not farms. Wind - farms, not residential and solar.

And, perhaps even more than the technical production, the core difference between the US and Norway, may be how we think about public policy.
You could use many other developed countries to predict, the USA is FAR behind in terms of % EV adoption, though still growing (despite PR spin to the contrary). From wiki, unable to find 2023 data.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country
 

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Perhaps.

Norway has less than 2% of the USA population. It is also smaller and far less geographically diverse. Its surface area is 4% of the USA. 88% of Norways power comes from hydropower sources.

I’m not sure it is a good example to extrapolate from.

The reason posters brought up Norway was the recent press over winter issues and some EVs having trouble in Chicago. Meanwhile others cold and snowy countries or states have been successful in their EV use even in harsh winter weather.
 
The Norwegians are smart enough not to plow all the snow in the parking lot into the spot in front of the charger.
 
The Norwegians are smart enough not to plow all the snow in the parking lot into the spot in front of the charger.

Oslo not only has covered parking garages for EVs only that are filled with chargers, but last time I was there I even saw charging pillars in the sidewalks in purely residential neighborhoods (Europeans are used to using their own charger cables to connect anywhere).

There is no doubt that the country is in the forefront of the EV revolution, but as mentioned here the situation doesn't match the US environment at all.
 
Perhaps.

Norway has less than 2% of the USA population. It is also smaller and far less geographically diverse. Its surface area is 4% of the USA. 88% of Norways power comes from hydropower sources.

I’m not sure it is a good example to extrapolate from.

Lacking a reasonable passenger rail system and an airline business designed with connecting flights through a few hub cities, the US is exteremely reliant on automobiles for trips from 200 to 600 miles or more. Because of the predominance of connecting flights, my wife and I find little use for the airport in our current city.

Without range and charging infrastructure to support these longer trips, EVs are not ready for wide adoption in the US.
 
Without range and charging infrastructure to support these longer trips, EVs are not ready for wide adoption in the US.
Yeah, people keep telling us that but we have already been on several 3000+ mile road trips in our EV.

So clearly we do have the range and the infrastructure.
 
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Without range and charging infrastructure to support these longer trips, EVs are not ready for wide adoption in the US.
Widely believed but public charging infrastructure is far better than most people realize. Unless your trip is from one remote rural area to another, there are probably more than enough chargers enroute. But again, I know people believe otherwise. It’s a chicken or the egg phenomena. As of 10 months ago:
There are currently more than 56,000 EV charging stations with about 148,000 charging ports across the country. While this is enough to sustain the current number of registered EVs, the US would need to roughly triple installations rates over the next eight years to support the anticipated number of EVs on the road by 2030.
 
Oslo not only has covered parking garages for EVs only that are filled with chargers, but last time I was there I even saw charging pillars in the sidewalks in purely residential neighborhoods (Europeans are used to using their own charger cables to connect anywhere).

There is no doubt that the country is in the forefront of the EV revolution, but as mentioned here the situation doesn't match the US environment at all.

If you are disagreeing with me I don't actually know what your point is
 
Given we are only a few years into this transition, and many folks are quite happy with their EVs, even on long trips, this seems a bit inaccurate.

"Without range and charging infrastructure to support these longer trips, EVs are not ready for wide adoption in the US."

Here's my take - as time goes by it seems easier to express more simply - probably from thinking about it so much:

1. Range has improved significantly in the last five years
2. The number of chargers has improved significantly in the last five years
3. EVs are, in spite of 1 and 2, above, still more often used for shorter haul stuff.
4. If a family has two cars - one of them is likely to be more aligned with the longer haul need - perhaps a hybrid.
5. If a family has one car, and they like to long distance road travel, they will likely have a hybrid.
6. Each of the above has a series of curves that fit into various models
7. It's government's job to assess and motivate for the common good
 
I have driven EVs (rentals) several times, and generally like them. I own a PHEV myself.

But I'm one of those oddballs who suffer from range anxiety, so I'm not ready to go full BEV yet.

A year or two ago, I tried looking at what the charging situation would be for a couple of road trips I've taken in recent years, and found that it was considered impossible due to lack of chargers. That was using both the Tesla router and the better route planner that is highly regarded. So my idea of a nice road trip doesn't quit match up with the current state of charger availability. I'm sure it will work itself out soon, but not quite yet.
 
Smiling, aja8888.

Yeah, I think my assessment is closer to historical governance - most everywhere in every system.
 
Ah. If you install a home EV charging station, the tax credit is 30% of the cost of hardware and installation, up to $1,000. Tesla’s wall charger costs about $500. The the electrical work to get a 240v circuit where you want it can run $500 to $1000. So you may get 30% or $500 back. Google ‘home charging EV tax incentive’.
 
Is there a government subsidy for adding a charger and the required electrical upgrades to my garage?

My electric utility gave me $250 toward the cost of a charger (Texas - Entergy). The feds (IRS) will give you 30% of the charger cost and installation under their rules.
 
No, not disagreeing at all. Sorry if I gave that impression.

My misunderstanding.

In GM related news. They took a hit to profits in 2023
Strike
800 Million to LG for the Bolt battery replacement program settlement
Selling EVs at a loss

There was some plan to sell 400,000 EVs by midyear 2024 now revised to 200,000 to 300,000 for the year. Mary Barra says they would like to start selling PHEVs in a few years. They still plan to be out of the ICE business by 2035

Sorry the link isn't free

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/30/business/general-motors-fourth-quarter-earnings.html

Sadly, I think GM is in big trouble
 
Sorry, Oscar, I was speaking to the charging systems.

Here you go https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-8911

Ah. If you install a home EV charging station, the tax credit is 30% of the cost of hardware and installation, up to $1,000. Tesla’s wall charger costs about $500. The the electrical work to get a 240v circuit where you want it can run $500 to $1000. So you may get 30% or $500 back. Google ‘home charging EV tax incentive’.

The 240V install can range from $500 to $3000 or more. No room in panel, long run through walls, outdoor enclosure (if applicable), the charger or commercial grade receptacle itself, etc.
Motor Trend said:
Most American homeowners will spend around $1,150 to $2,750 to purchase and install a 240-volt charging station. A good home charger costs $350 to $750 or so, while the typical installation runs between $800 and $2,000 according to Qmerit, a nationwide specialist in installing EV charging equipment. The price charged by an electrician for this work varies largely based on four factors: the cost of labor where you live, the power of the charger, the distance between the electrical panel and the charging station, and the complexity of the job. This installation estimate also includes the price of permits.

Some homeowners may be shocked to get a quote above $5,000, or in extreme cases $10,000. There are a couple common reasons for these big estimates. An older home may have an outdated electrical panel, or the panel simply may not have room for a new 240-volt circuit. Upgrading to a larger breaker panel typically adds a couple thousand dollars to the job. Things get really expensive if the service wires feeding electricity to the house can't deliver enough amperage to accommodate a charger on top of your existing electrical load—especially if the lines are buried underground. Replacing these wires means getting your local utility involved, which also may stretch the project timeline by several months.
 
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https://www.zap-map.com/ev-stats/how-many-charging-points

At the end of December 2023, there were 53,906 electric vehicle charging points across the UK, across 31,056 charging locations. This represents a 45% increase in the total number of charging devices since December 2022.

I’ve had an EV for 15 months and done many trips requiring public EV charges and have never had a problem finding a charger but still suffer from range anxiety, particularly when going somewhere new. On my phone is a folder full of apps to use on the myriad of different company chargers that are out there. I believe there is finally going to be legislation this year that requires all manufacturers to provide credit or debit card contactless charging. Scotland did this from the outset and although there are many companies providing charging stations they all have to be compatible with a single system called ChargePlace Scotland so 1 RFID card is all you need wherever you are in Scotland.
 
Given we are only a few years into this transition, and many folks are quite happy with their EVs, even on long trips, this seems a bit inaccurate.

"Without range and charging infrastructure to support these longer trips, EVs are not ready for wide adoption in the US."

Here's my take - as time goes by it seems easier to express more simply - probably from thinking about it so much:

1. Range has improved significantly in the last five years
2. The number of chargers has improved significantly in the last five years
3. EVs are, in spite of 1 and 2, above, still more often used for shorter haul stuff.
4. If a family has two cars - one of them is likely to be more aligned with the longer haul need - perhaps a hybrid.
5. If a family has one car, and they like to long distance road travel, they will likely have a hybrid.
6. Each of the above has a series of curves that fit into various models
7. It's government's job to assess and motivate for the common good

I am sure more wasteful government deficit spending will add more chargers. Actually, government should be out of this. My tax dollars going for home chargers? And why exactly?

I think your assessment on types of cars people own is pretty accurate. Though many folks swear by their EVs, most are not ready to buy one for a variety of reasons.
 
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