Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion

[braumeister]

In the 1950s, during the obsession with the push button future (it's here!), Chrysler had push button selectors on some models.

I remember my grandfather's Rambler with a pushbutton trans. Five buttons on the dashboard, left of the steering wheel. Probably about a 1959 or 60 model.

The following U.S. cars had pushbutton automatic transmissions:
AMC Rambler & Ambassador (except American) 1958-1962
All Chrysler Products 1956-1964
Edsel 1958 (upper line Corsair and Citation only)
The Rambler and Chrysler products had the pushbuttons to the left of the steering column. The Edsel had the pushbuttons in the steering wheel hub.

 

[JoeWras]

Wait, wait! The Edsel had buttons on the steering wheel!?

This does not bode well for Tesla.

 

[Popeye]

Any hints of pricing on the new model 3? Usually with so many improvements a manufacturer would bump up the pricing. Will this result in even better deals for the last of the old model 3s? I’d probably be waiting to get the new model if I was ready to buy unless there’s a big price differential.

 

[Midpack]

I don't care about the tranny. I'm talking turn signal stalks.

OK. I had no way of knowing from your earlier post #446 what you didn’t like about going stalkless. The right side stalk was the shifter on the Model 3, and that’s the control most potential buyers were most concerned about losing more than the left side turn signal stalk. I am not concerned about the turn signal since the driver is usually going straight, and the wheel is centered, when you signal before arriving at the turn. But then we’ve all dealt with steering wheel controls like cruise, radio, voice commands when the wheel is not centered (while turning).

 

[Midpack]

View attachment 47035
Just saw this (and many other EVs) in Oslo Norway, could not get a test ride, it’s a Neo

The NextEV Nio EP9 is kinda expensive…

Top Speed: 194.5MPH
Horsepower: 1,341HP (1 Megawatt)
Torque: 1,092FT-LBS
Price: $1,200,000

 

[Midpack]

Any hints of pricing on the new model 3? Usually with so many improvements a manufacturer would bump up the pricing. Will this result in even better deals for the last of the old model 3s? I’d probably be waiting to get the new model if I was ready to buy unless there’s a big price differential.

What we know so far. But Tesla will increase or decrease prices to match production as they’ve been doing for a while. So where they start could be changed quickly.

This is how much more expensive the refreshed Model 3 is in various countries vs the old Model 3:

• China: 12% more expensive
• Australia: 7.8%
• Germany: 2.4%
• France: 2.4%

They are discounting the current Model 3 substantially already, how much depends on the country demand vs production site output. I’ve seen as much as $5,500 off. With Tesla you just look online and that’s the price, no screwing around with dealer games. Model 3’s in US inventory are all being discounted now. At the moment you only pay “sticker” if you order and choose options - and all M3s and MYs are eligible for a $7500 Federal tax credit.

 

[audreyh1]

Tesla no stalks. I know they like minimalism. But man.

Sure, I'll have to try to to see I like it. Right now, I don't like it. My opinion.

Now I'm waiting for someone to sarcastically say they miss the stalk to control spark advance. Ha ha, I get it.

Screenshot of new 3 Europe web site.

Honestly, I absolutely love no stalks. It’s so much more efficient using buttons on the wheel for signaling turns. I gripe every time I get in a car where I have to use stalks again.

Plus it looks so much better (uncluttered).

 

[ken830]

Tesla no stalks. I know they like minimalism. But man.

Sure, I'll have to try to to see I like it. Right now, I don't like it. My opinion.

Now I'm waiting for someone to sarcastically say they miss the stalk to control spark advance. Ha ha, I get it.

Screenshot of new 3 Europe web site.

They removed the stalks on the Model S & X quite a while ago - so there are thousands of owners using stalkless already. While some people don't like the change, most actual owners I know love it after giving it a few days - even those who didn't like the idea beforehand. One a Model X owner in TX who rented a Model Y on a trip, and hated having to bother with stalks again. She says the car "knows" whether you want D or R more often than not, but the driver can override if he/she wants to. It's a simple swipe up or down on the left edge of the display, with a button backup on the console (S & X) or control panel by rear view (new 3).

It's too bad people who make up their minds without even trying new things (not saying you have), but there are plenty of them. DW and I are looking forward to trying it out, and expect to find it just fine. We reminded ourselves you almost never switch gears while driving an automatic transmission anyway - it stays in D most of the time while driving, and it's not hard to pay attention when you need R or P.

Frankly I am a little more anxious about have the turn signals on the left spoke of the wheel...should be fine 90+% of the time, but it could be a PITA when the wheel is turned and you want to change signals - e.g. while turning left and need to signal upcoming right. But Model S & X owners have been using them for quite a while.

When we ordered the new Model X a couple of years ago, I was somewhat worried about the steering yoke, but kept an open mind. On the other hand, I was sure I would hate the lack of turning signal stalk. Turns out I was wrong. The yoke is fine, but the signal buttons are BETTER than the stalks in most situations. Unless you are doing a tight parking lot maneuver or a 3-point turn, you basically have your hand on the left-side of the steering wheel/yoke anyway and the signal buttons are within thumbs-reach during most driving situations. You mostly need to turn on your signal indicators before a maneuver, so your vehicle, and steering wheel/yoke, is very likely to be mostly pointing straight-ish. Tesla Vision automatically cancels the turn signal based on road context, so you never need to press it again to cancel. For instance, when changing lanes, the car sees that you've successfully changed lanes and will auto-cancel. Other cars give you that 3-blink thing, which may not be enough during heavier traffic. When you take an exit (or fork in the road), where you don't turn the wheel/yolk enough for traditional mechanical stalk to ratchet and turn off, Tesla vision recognizes and understands that the vehicle took an exit lane and will auto-cancel the signal. Same for traditional left/right turns. It's almost like it's reading my mind. Even when I need to make several rapid lane change successively, it knows to keep the signal on until I've completed all of my lane changes -- I never figured out how it knows this, but I think (I don't know for sure) it's considering the navigation instructions telling me to make several lane changes.

Overall, it works great and I've even enabled the Tesla Vision Signal Auto-Cancel feature in my Model 3, which still has the traditional stalk. The problem with the traditional stalk is that it doesn't move with the wheel, which is not great to use when you are in a slight turn because your fingers can no longer reach them. They are better than the buttons if you are doing tighter turns using the "hand-shuffle" method. But I don't see needing to turn on the signal in the middle of a tight turn -- at least not very often. So, I think the steering wheel buttons is an overall improvement.

 

[JoeWras]

Alright, alright, alright, I'll keep an open mind.

I know there is room for this because so much is moved to the tablet and voice commands.

Not sure about that either. We'll have to see.

Funny thing is I never really warmed up to all the windshield wiper and lighting control on a stalk. Give me the pull rod and floor switch, baby!

No, seriously, my new-to-me Honda is just way, way, way too busy with all the lighting and wiper controls on the stalks. Too much.

 

[ken830]

Alright, alright, alright, I'll keep an open mind.

I know there is room for this because so much is moved to the tablet and voice commands.

Not sure about that either. We'll have to see.

Funny thing is I never really warmed up to all the windshield wiper and lighting control on a stalk. Give me the pull rod and floor switch, baby!

No, seriously, my new-to-me Honda is just way, way, way too busy with all the lighting and wiper controls on the stalks. Too much.

I think the current changes are enabled by AI-enabled automation, which is different from previous changes that are just purely UI or human-interface changes.

Honestly, based on what I've seen and read online, I think some of the criticism about Tesla Vision-based wiper controls may be warranted, but I don't know first-hand, because I almost never use wipers here in California. My Model S went 10 years and 160k miles on it's original set of wipers and original tank of washer fluid. My younger Model 3 and X are on original sets/tanks too.

 

[audreyh1]

Vision-based wiper controls - in general works very well for us, I rarely have to override it. We just went through a month in CO, encountered plenty of on again off again rain, occasionally heavy, and even hailed/sleeted on once. Tesla wipers did very well.

DH does keep the cameras clean.

Just got back from our 3,200 mile Colorado month long trip. What’s incredible is that we averaged under 300Wh/mile, dropping our long term average down to 301Wh/mile. Driving 947 miles around southwest CO including several high mountain passes, we averaged 263Wh/mile.

 

[JoeWras]

When we were in Vancouver, BC a while ago, I swear every 5th car was a Tesla.

If wipers don't work there, they won't work anywhere.

 

[folivier]

People who like the automatic windshield wipers must not have ever been in love bug territory during the swarms.

 

[Midpack]

Our experience with rain sensing wipers is they work great when it's raining or pouring. It's when rain is just starting they tend to be late in coming on, and late to stop when the rain never goes beyond sprinkling. We've never had perfect rain sensing wipers yet from Toyota, Honda, Subaru or Hyundai - they've all had the light rain deficiency. I have not experienced the Tesla wipers yet.

 

[audreyh1]

People who like the automatic windshield wipers must not have ever been in love bug territory during the swarms.

It’s very easy to switch to manual operation.

But thankfully I’m not in love bug territory during swarms.

 

[yakers]

Remember to turn them off before the car wash, don’t ask how I know

 

[TriumphTR3fan]

The turn signals on our Teslas are way better than the "trafficators" on our Triumph TR3A. The control isn't a stalk, rather it's a toggle mounted on the horn button. The signals don't self cancel. There is an amber light but no sound indicator. Not quite first generation (those were semaphores on earlier cars) but turn signals have really improved over the last 60 years.

 

[eytonxav]

Transmission controls on dashboard, auto head lights, auto windshield wipers are fine with me. A woke steering wheel, lack of buttons/knobs for AC/Heat/ventilation control and a non-stalk turn signal would definitely push me to another brand vehicle.

Also, it looks like Tesla prefers the China/Asia market to receive its new spec changes. How does that sit with US buyers and will they hold off buying until made available in US, although many buyers might be unaware.

 

[folivier]

I probably never will but if I did buy an EV I'd HAVE to get the Jetson's spaceship sound. That would be awesome.

 

[aja8888]

I just discovered my rear view mirror camera. I'm getting slow on the uptake these days.

 

[explanade]

So one reason to avoid Tesla, it’s data collection and protection policies and practices are the worst of any auto manufacturer.

The poor state of digital security in the auto industry should also come as no surprise; in January, we reported on widespread vulnerabilities at multiple OEMs that would allow nefarious hackers to access personal information from servers or even remotely start a car's engine. Mozilla was similarly unimpressed, saying:

Our main concern is that we can’t tell whether any of the cars encrypt all of the personal information that sits on the car. And that’s the bare minimum! We don’t call them our state-of-the-art security standards, after all.

Of the car brands Mozilla looked at, Tesla fared worst of all; it was only the second product to receive all of Mozilla's "privacy dings" (an AI chatbot was the first), apparently. Nissan took the dubious honor of second-worst—the quoted section above should give a good idea of why.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/09/connected-cars-are-a-privacy-nightmare-mozilla-foundation-says/

To be fair, all connected cars, which are most modern cars now, fare poorly when it comes to invading your privacy and selling your very personal data — including biomedical data.

There are no industry standards nor laws to cover this area. The tech got ahead of legislators and regulators so they will have to catch up.

For now we can only be wary and try to get legislators attention on this area.

Either that or find a way to disable the modems they build into cars now.

Certainly don’t subscribe to any online services like OnStar, where you’re probably paying for the mobile data connection through which they upload your personal data.

Though it sounds like more carmakers are putting in permanent data connections whether car owners subscribe to these services or not, because they want to monetize your privacy.

 

[REWahoo]

I just discovered my rear view mirror camera. I'm getting slow on the uptake these days.

You run across the lumbar support adjustment yet? How about the warming cupholder - or did you not spring for that option?

 

[aja8888]

You run across the lumbar support adjustment yet? How about the warming cupholder - or did you not spring for that option?

I found the lumbar support adjustment......the warming cupholder.....are you serious?

 

[RetMD21]

Consumer reports didn't like the headlights on the Tesla Model Y. And they were concerned about the recalls. The customer satisfaction was higher than I would have expected for the rating suggesting that perhaps the issues weren't that important

 

[NW-Bound]

Warming cup holder?

Heck, I want a chilling cup holder to keep my drink cool while driving in this 115F heat.