Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion

[RetMD21]

Most informative Cybertruck review I’ve found so far.

Interesting review. The stainless steel turned out to be a challenge to work with. The small turning radius vs the Lightning was impressive.

He didn't talk about the bidirectional charging which is a interesting feature IMO.

 

[aja8888]

Are we still at $40,000 starting price for this grotesque thing (my opinion on looks) like previously advertised? At least that's what I remember from four years ago, or so, when Musk brought it to light.

 

[ERD50]

Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I was interested, and clicked, but I see that's the same guy that you said gave a great review on the Tesla solar roof tiles - but he had massive, obvious, significant errors in his payback numbers, got called on it by many others in the comments, but never owned up to the errors.

So just a caveat for others, but I'm not investing 40 minutes in any review from this guy. Obviously, others can do as they see fit, but you've been warned.

Your choice. ....

While you didn’t like his solar video, it got many very good reviews as well, ...

We’ve both stated our positions, we disagree - I for one won’t debate it further with you.

And the people who gave it good reviews simply didn't understand his arithmetic error. And arithmetic really isn't debatable, it's black/white right/wrong. And his was wrong. And I find it difficult to put any faith/effort in a guy with such obvious errors in his reviews.

And I'll leave it at that.

-ERD50

 

[JoeWras]

Are we still at $40,000 starting price for this grotesque thing (my opinion on looks) like previously advertised? At least that's what I remember from four years ago, or so, when Musk brought it to light.

No, it is not $40k.
[-]
RWD starts at $50k, in 2025.[/-]
[-]
AWD starts at $69k, in 2024.[/-]
[-]
BEAST starts at $96k in 2024. CYBERBEAST is the initial roll out.[/-]

The marketing got me! Those numbers are the default on their web site which include things like fed kick backs and "gas savings."

Lets try this again.

RWD (2025): $61k
AWD (2024): $80k
CYBERBEAST (2024): $100k

 

[Aerides]

the endless bickering and squabbling contributed to the demise of the prior thread, let's keep this pleasant for all members...

 

[Midpack]

Are we still at $40,000 starting price for this grotesque thing (my opinion on looks) like previously advertised? At least that's what I remember from four years ago, or so, when Musk brought it to light.

No, it is not $40k.

RWD (2025): $61k
AWD (2024): $80k
CYBERBEAST (2024): $100k

The YT community is speculating plenty of the “2 million” preorder buyers will be willing to pay a premium to get a Cybertruck sooner rather than later. So you can’t blame them for pricing accordingly while demand exceeds supply. Refundable deposits were only $100, now $250, and undoubtedly some/many buyers will not follow through - everyone has known that all along. With fully scaled production pegged at 250K units/yr and they won’t be anywhere near that for a long time, it appears they may have plenty of buyers for a while.

And it’s not like legacy auto pickups are cheap, they can run into six figures as well, though buyer pushback appears to be bringing prices back down some. It’s not like $40K pickups are the norm, why would Tesla offer one? The Ford Lightning pickup has been plagued with dealer markup gouging, they’re very expensive. The Hummer EV is even more.

The Cybertruck will improve and production costs will come down, as will price - but that will take years if past history is any indication.

https://electrek.co/2023/11/28/tesla-increases-cybertruck-pre-order-deposit-but-reverts/

As anyone who’s been in the market for a new truck lately can attest, the prices for a full-size pickup are just plain crazy, fueled by a costly combination of inflation, demand for additional amenities and performance capabilities and the genre’s still-swelling popularity.

According to Cars.com, they’re now up to an average of more than $60,000, which represents a 6% leap over the past year, and far more than the already staggering prices top models recorded in the pre-pandemic period. And that’s not counting the most capable heavy-duty models and the latest full-electric trucks that command the most extreme MSRPs of all.

 

[ken830]

I think the best videos in the Cybertruck right now are MKBHD and Jason Cammisa. I would clarify both as mostly neutral with a slight negative take on Tesla. However, their negative is not based on malicious intent or blind hatred of EV or Elon or anything like that. Their negativity is based on their lack of experience with Tesla vehicles (Jason) and lack of deep understanding of technology and engineering (MKBHD).


https://youtu.be/L6WDq0V5oBg?si=zbbkpPkTyiO9MFbt

Edit: no full reviews yet, but eventually, you'd want to see what Matt Watson (carwow) and Kyle (out of spec) say about the Cybertruck. They are both mostly neutral on Tesla with some minor negativity, but their slight negative take is based on personal preference. Matt and Kyle have a lot of experience and time with Tesla vehicles and own multiple Teslas over many years.

And of course, Bjorn as well, but he is from Norway so not sure of his access. Bjorn got his Model S about 6 months after mine in 2013 and had deep-dived into battery capacity, charging, road tripping. I would trust him over all others.

 

[JoeWras]

I think it is extremely intriguing. You have to hand it to Tesla -- they make waves.

This is good. The market needs waves. People will initially pay a price premium to catch a wave.

One thing I like about a vehicle with such a long wheelbase is the rear steering. This has been tried from time to time since the beginning of the automobile, mostly with poor success. I'm going to bet Tesla gets it 96% correct initially, and fine tunes it as time goes on.

The steering wheel* is a transition to a yoke. The yoke has been desired by futurists forever. Will this stick? We'll see.

The large windshield wiper? All I see in this is a costly replacement price since it is nowhere near a standard.

The vehicle is not for me, but I admire the boldness of change. No pickup is for me. They sit too high. I got a minivan for my work activities. Pickups have too high of a lift for my back.

* - Speaking of steering wheels, you may have seen the long form Chevy commercial released for Christmas 2023. It isn't about EVs, so sorry about the off topic. When the grandchild is driving grandma around in that classic Chevy Suburban, just look at the size of that flippin' steering wheel. Holy cow!

 

[aja8888]

I think it is extremely intriguing. You have to hand it to Tesla -- they make waves.

This is good. The market needs waves. People will initially pay a price premium to catch a wave.

One thing I like about a vehicle with such a long wheelbase is the rear steering. This has been tried from time to time since the beginning of the automobile, mostly with poor success. I'm going to bet Tesla gets it 96% correct initially, and fine tunes it as time goes on.

The steering wheel* is a transition to a yoke. The yoke has been desired by futurists forever. Will this stick? We'll see.

The large windshield wiper? All I see in this is a costly replacement price since it is nowhere near a standard.

The vehicle is not for me, but I admire the boldness of change. No pickup is for me. They sit too high. I got a minivan for my work activities. Pickups have too high of a lift for my back.

* - Speaking of steering wheels, you may have seen the long form Chevy commercial released for Christmas 2023. It isn't about EVs, so sorry about the off topic. When the grandchild is driving grandma around in that classic Chevy Suburban, just look at the size of that flippin' steering wheel. Holy cow!

Big steering wheels were there because of no power steering. My 65' Vette had no power steering and a good sized wood steering wheel.

 

[JoeWras]

Big steering wheels were there because of no power steering. My 65' Vette had no power steering and a good sized wood steering wheel.

Mercedes persisted with the big wheel for many years after all their models had power steering simply to make sure it would work if the assist failed.

It is funny. I happened to see this tear jerker commercial right after reviewing the Tesla one that Midpack posted. The difference in wheels popped out to me.

 

[ken830]

I think it is extremely intriguing. You have to hand it to Tesla -- they make waves.

This is good. The market needs waves. People will initially pay a price premium to catch a wave.

One thing I like about a vehicle with such a long wheelbase is the rear steering. This has been tried from time to time since the beginning of the automobile, mostly with poor success. I'm going to bet Tesla gets it 96% correct initially, and fine tunes it as time goes on.

The steering wheel* is a transition to a yoke. The yoke has been desired by futurists forever. Will this stick? We'll see.

The large windshield wiper? All I see in this is a costly replacement price since it is nowhere near a standard.

The vehicle is not for me, but I admire the boldness of change. No pickup is for me. They sit too high. I got a minivan for my work activities. Pickups have too high of a lift for my back.

* - Speaking of steering wheels, you may have seen the long form Chevy commercial released for Christmas 2023. It isn't about EVs, so sorry about the off topic. When the grandchild is driving grandma around in that classic Chevy Suburban, just look at the size of that flippin' steering wheel. Holy cow!

Absolutely correct. Every now and then, someone needs to rethink everything and start from the ground up.

BTW, I think the Cybertruck lowers itself for ease of entry/exit. A truck isn't for me either, but the Cybertruck is intriguing. A lot of the changes will propagate into the other vehicles. 800V, 48V, steer-by-wire... Maybe even stainless steel construction. I like having no paint to take care of.

 

[Midpack]

One thing I like about a vehicle with such a long wheelbase is the rear steering. This has been tried from time to time since the beginning of the automobile, mostly with poor success. I'm going to bet Tesla gets it 96% correct initially, and fine tunes it as time goes.

The Cybertruck steering is drive by wire, others have tried that before with 4 wheel steering but it never stuck? Mechanical rear wheel steering also failed in the market AFAIK.

Drive by wire allows them to dynamically adjust steering sensitivity as well, very sensitive at low speeds and (much) less so at highway speeds - best of both worlds.

And drive by wire means the rear wheels can turn in the opposite direction to fronts at low speeds to help maneuvering, tighten turning circle and making parking easier - while turning the same direction as the fronts at high speed to add stability during cornering, enhancing the vehicle's dynamic performance.

And the Cybertruck has a much narrower steering wheel rotation. 2.5 turns lock to lock is common, the Cybertruck is less than 1 turn lock to lock - about 170 degrees in each direction. That should make adapting to the squarish steering wheel easier - you won’t be spinning it around and around like most legacy cars.

 

[aja8888]

Absolutely correct. Every now and then, someone needs to rethink everything and start from the ground up.

BTW, I think the Cybertruck lowers itself for ease of entry/exit. A truck isn't for me either, but the Cybertruck is intriguing. A lot of the changes will propagate into the other vehicles. 800V, 48V, steer-by-wire... Maybe even stainless steel construction. I like having no paint to take care of.

The DeLorean was made out of stainless steel. It was a failure for other reasons.

 

[joesxm3]

I had a 2003 Honda Prelude with 4 wheel steering and liked it very much.

 

[JoeWras]

The Cybertruck steering is drive by wire, others have tried that before with 4 wheel steering but it never stuck? Mechanical rear wheel steering also failed in the market AFAIK.

Drive by wire allows them to dynamically adjust steering sensitivity as well, very sensitive at low speeds and (much) less so at highway speeds - best of both worlds.

And drive by wire means the rear wheels can turn in the opposite direction to fronts at low speeds to help maneuvering, tighten turning circle and making parking easier - while turning the same direction as the fronts at high speed to add stability during cornering, enhancing the vehicle's dynamic performance.

The mechanical systems promised to do all the fancy stuff too, but they were tricky and were quietly put away.

I have engineer friends in the traditional industry and they complain about how slow development moves. You can be sure any drive by wire improvements are rolled out slowly and conservatively.

Tesla will leap forward and take risks. This is one area where it is about time, especially for big vehicles. GM had it on their big pickups but asked a king's ransom for the feature.

Wiki has some nice info on the history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steering#Four-wheel_steering

BTW: anyone remember the arcade video game from about 45 years ago where you and a friend drove the hook-and-ladder truck? Lots of fun being the rear wheel driver.

The DeLorean was made out of stainless steel. It was a failure for other reasons.

We have a DeLorean I see driving around here with a license plate that says "1.2 GW". Good stuff! The body looks great! I can't vouch for how the rest of the car is. It is still moving under its own power. I wonder how much time the owner puts into it.

 

[ken830]

Jason Cammisa talks about the Cybertruck on the Hagerty Podcast:

Among the many golden nuggets of information, is the fact that the Cybertruck doesn't have side-impact door beams because the exterior door panels are just so strong. It's made of Tesla-developed blend of stainless steel (named HFS -- Hard F***** Steel).

EDIT: Just want to say THIS is the most informative Cybertruck video out there. Jason never came across as a fan of Tesla and even he was so impressed. Watch to the end.

 

[explanade]

There's a video out there which shows no front crumple zones..

Again, truck safety standards are more lax, which would be one reason side impact beams are not required in trucks.

 

[ken830]

Don't succumb to FUD. We can speculate all we want, but judging by the crash and safety ratings of all their previous vehicles, my money is on Tesla delivering a truck far safer than anything we've seen before.

The Model S, X, 3, and Y are arguably the safest vehicles ever tested by safety regulators. No reason to think they would produce an unsafe vehicle.

 

[RetMD21]

There's a video out there which shows no front crumple zones..

Again, truck safety standards are more lax, which would be one reason side impact beams are not required in trucks.

The doors are strong enough that the beams aren't needed

 

[stephenson]

The drive by wire is interesting - the "yoke" never needs to turn more than quarter turn - or is it half turn? So no reason to need to be able to grab the top or bottom of the "yoke?"

 

[Midpack]

The drive by wire is interesting - the "yoke" never needs to turn more than quarter turn - or is it half turn? So no reason to need to be able to grab the top or bottom of the "yoke?"

170 degrees in both directions max. It’s not quite a yoke, it’s a squarish wheel. A yoke has no top rim.

 

[stephenson]

170 degrees in both directions max. It’s not quite a yoke, it’s a squarish wheel. A yoke has no top rim.

And ... smiling now ... wheels can't be "squarish." ?

 

[JackJester]

Thank You Midpack for that Cybertruck review link. I found it quite informative. When Musk first released this monstrosity a few years ago I thought there was no way I would ever consider it. I have owned 3 Dodge Rams and 2 Toyota Tacomas over the years. Currently on a 2021 V6 Taco. I will always own a pickup. I often tow trailers, haul wood, fishing boats, camping stuff, in off road mud hard to get to places, etc... lots of things only a pickup can do. It was nice to see the bed of the cyber truck in that review as compared to the Ford lightning. While I still don't see how I can install a rack system like my Canadian made electric boat loader, the fact that the dang thing has 240V plug in the bed is just amazing. I need to see some reviews doing pickup truck-like activities with it. But, when the markets take off and I have that extra 'dough to blow', I might be going cyber.

 

[aja8888]

Thank You Midpack for that Cybertruck review link. I found it quite informative. When Musk first released this monstrosity a few years ago I thought there was no way I would ever consider it. I have owned 3 Dodge Rams and 2 Toyota Tacomas over the years. Currently on a 2021 V6 Taco. I will always own a pickup. I often tow trailers, haul wood, fishing boats, camping stuff, in off road mud hard to get to places, etc... lots of things only a pickup can do. It was nice to see the bed of the cyber truck in that review as compared to the Ford lightning. While I still don't see how I can install a rack system like my Canadian made electric boat loader, the fact that the dang thing has 240V plug in the bed is just amazing. I need to see some reviews doing pickup truck-like activities with it. But, when the markets take off and I have that extra 'dough to blow', I might be going cyber.

Yes, with 240 volts out, It probably can charge itself!

 

[aja8888]

The All-Electric ZDX

Get ready for a new era of Precision Crafted Performance™. Arriving in 2024, the ZDX will be the first all-electric Acura, combining electrified performance, elevated design and exhilarating power to provide an intuitive, driver-focused experience with an anticipated range rating of 325 miles* available. The ZDX and ZDX Type S are expected to be priced in the $60,000 and $70,000 range, respectively

https://www.acura.com/future-vehicl...EpptjuB7s4aCz8hzy4BoCm3MQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds