ER with young kids

[dayzero]

I am FI and considering ER soon at age 42 or 43, which would make my kid 3 or 4. My main concern at this point is would I be setting a bad example or failing my child in some way? My spouse is SAH already, so neither parent would be working for the vast majority of childhood. My father retired at 52 and spent his days watching financial news and generally not doing much of anything - I was a bit older at that point and it left a pretty negative impression on me. (Unfairly I'd say now, but kids can be unfair.) I'm a very active person and have lots of things I want to do to replace my career, but still I worry, especially as a new parent who doesn't really know what they're doing yet.

What do you all think? Anyone with a similar experience or thought process?

 

[rodi]

Welcome Zeroday.

There have been several threads on this topic. I retired when my kids were 11 and 13 (now 14 and 16). One of the reasons I chose to retire early was so I could be more involved/hands on/annoyingly-in-their business. 2.5 years in and I have NO regrets about the decision. It's been absolutely the correct decision as a parent.

I volunteer at their schools, I am available to shuttle them too/from activities, and I have the emotional bandwidth (usually) to deal with the drama that comes with teenagers. Your kids are younger... so you can have even more impact on them.

One of our frequent posters, Fuego, will probably be along to chime in. He retired in his 30's with 3 youngsters.

Here are some threads on the subject... There are plenty more.

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f29/any-of-you-with-young-kids-60524.html
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f29/retiring-with-young-kids-54328.htmlhttp://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f26/semi-er-41-with-young-kids-crazy-35839.html

 

[respond2u]

You could look at Mr Money Mustache or Root of Good to see how they're doing raising kids without doing the 9-6.

I believe that the role model you set makes a big difference, along with how you proceed through the "teachable moments" (which are just about all the time with children).

Your choices represent your values. If you're FI and chose to continue to work, why? More luxury? More risk mitigation? More job fulfillment? FUD? More time away from family
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/kansas-man-admits-robbing-kansas-bank-escape-wife-44994529

Being absent, stressed, or pre-occupied sends a strong message. Being there sends another.

Maybe you could view this as setting a role model to your children to make sure they have their own motivations and just aren't following the herd.

Another thing to consider: at ages 3 or 4, your spouse may want some time out of the house more as well.

 

[RAchip]

Its funny because I was about to post the same question. My concern is that some of my kids are so young they will never see a parent going to work. That strikes me as creating a possible problem.

 

[dayzero]

Its funny because I was about to post the same question. My concern is that some of my kids are so young they will never see a parent going to work. That strikes me as creating a possible problem.

I understand and expressed that same concern to my spouse, who responded that a child seeing that working hard and being successful enough at what you do to be able to RE is not a problem and may even be a positive example that the child wants to emulate. Work hard, get good at what you do, understand risk and opportunity, make smart decisions, save most of what you make - these are the kinds of things we can pass along through FIRE. My spouse is a lot smarter than me.

Better than being FI and going to work just for the sake of it, especially if the career is replaced by something productive and meaningful. I like my job but it's not my passion, I could never do it another day in my life and be totally fine with that.

 

[RAchip]

But wont it be harder to instill the proper sense of work ethic in kids who don't see their Dad trudging off to work every day? Are they really going to be motivated to get summer jobs, etc when I'm fishing every day?

 

[dayzero]

Yes it may be hard to instill work ethic if you're off fishing every day. But you might be able to instill it by doing something else, something that is still easier and more rewarding than trudging off to work every day. For example, I'd like to spend some time coaching the sport I love to do in addition to just doing it. Maybe you could be a fishing guide?

 

[RAchip]

I'm not working once I sell my interest in my company. I'm literally planning to be fishing most days. I will take them to school then head out on the boat.

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

I retired when my son was 7. He loved (and still does) the fact that I was no longer going away for work all the time and could spend tons of time with him.

Having said that, I also started doing volunteer work as well as outside work (e.g. cutting down trees to burn in my wood burning stove).

While I don't think having a 9-to-5 job is important, I do think showing your children the importance of a work ethic is important, especially if you have money. Otherwise your money is likely to disappear after you are gone, and they won't have the skills to keep or acquire wealth. Just from your statement I think you can see the dangers of it...or at least the perception to you of him just sitting around watching financial news.

I'm now back working full time (sort of), teaching at the college level. (I started by teaching one class as an adjunct and it has just worked its way into full time.) I say sort of because I have the summers off (which was one of my main dislikes from before along with the never ending travel) and my hours outside of the classroom are extremely flexible (and with on-line learning my hours in the classroom are limited).

 

[street]

I don't see a problem unless you just sit around and do nothing. Lol You will need to show and do things with them that shows good work ethics. An interesting comment you made is you would like to coach the sport you love. I would like to hear more about that.

 

[45th Birthday]

I had the same concerns when I quit working for money when my kids were 14 and 16. I have since spent a considerable amount of time working with non-profits and also managing our investments, and also worked hard from a young age, which they know.

That was nearly 11 years ago. In the intervening time, we have travelled quite a bit as a family and I have been able to be there for them when they each faced different serious medical issues. Thankfully, those are now resolved.

So, how did it turn out? Well, fine. They both graduated from college and obtained full-time work in their chosen fields. This was uncommon among the peer group of one of them (liberal arts), very common with the other (business).

We still pay for their travel as a family and for visits home. Other than that, they are aware they are on their own and are learning how to manage that. The only apprehension is that the liberal arts major spends far more than sensible on what he considers his calling (everyone else would call it a hobby). BTW, this behavior is not motivated by any idea that there will someday be a large inheritance, even though that will almost certainly be the case.

As time passed, we became aware that we were needlessly restricting our spending although we lived comfortably. So, we have ramped that up and are enjoying it (as do they).

The next question we face is when/whether to start gifting them money to get it out of the estate (facing a large death tax). We originally didn't think we would do this, but they have turned out to be good kids and if we can see the one start to act a little more prudently, we will start.

 

[Bamaman]

I'm finally of real retirement age, and have essentially been raising a 5 year old girl and 9 year old boy. The boy stays with his Dad during most school weeks. We love those kids to no end, but I get home from taking them to school @ 8:30 and have to leave to pick them up @ 2:00.

Being a retiree, we were wanting to travel and do what "we want to do." It's essentially like being in grandparent hell right now, as we don't have a moment to ourselves.

Don't think of yourself as retired at 42 with young kids. If you're truly fixed financially for life, believe me you'll have a full time job watching your investments.

I know a 3 private jet family that sold their businesses when they were young. They work harder in retirement than they did when they had professional managers running their businesses. Now, all investment decisions are on them.

 

[dayzero]

I don't see a problem unless you just sit around and do nothing. Lol You will need to show and do things with them that shows good work ethics. An interesting comment you made is you would like to coach the sport you love. I would like to hear more about that.

I am avid rock climber, as is my spouse, that's how we met. If I wasn't working and we weren't parents we'd be traveling the world climbing for the rest of our lives, chasing the endless autumn. Anyway, I also like working with kids and I'd love to coach a junior climbing team, especially now that the sport is officially part of the Olympics.

 

[street]

I am avid rock climber, as is my spouse, that's how we met. If I wasn't working and we weren't parents we'd be traveling the world climbing for the rest of our lives, chasing the endless autumn. Anyway, I also like working with kids and I'd love to coach a junior climbing team, especially now that the sport is officially part of the Olympics.

Very interesting and that is a great sport and right down my alley. I see a lot of potential in a business/coaching in what you just told me. To me you and your wife need to chase that endless autumn. Thanks for sharing that with us and I see no problem setting an outstanding example for those children.

 

[Teacher Terry]

BM: that is really sad for both you and your wife and the kids. When we were on vacation we met a couple in their early 70's with a 15 and 2 yo grandsons that they were raising due to parent drug problem, etc. The 2 yo was very active so they had him in a harness/leash and I don't blame them. They were worried about losing him. They both were quite overweight and it made me sad to think that was the way they were spending their retirement. I don't think I could do it but admire people that do.

 

[ugeauxgirl]

I had the same worries, and rather accidentally resolved them. My husband and I were discussing finances and my older son (11 years old at the time) overheard our net worth (he was in another room, he just has exceptional hearing). We earn a pretty nice living, especially for our small southern town. We take lots of, but not lavish, vacations. We drive average vehicles- really you would never guess our net worth to look at us, and I'm pretty sure he was shocked.

I was really concerned about how that discussion was going to go, but you know what? It went great, and it led into the discussion about me retiring next year at 46, and how that is a result of working hard, saving hard, conservative spending, and investing. It has led to some amazing discussions and now I am not worried at all, because my kids get it. We're not lazy, we are enjoying the fruits of our hard work!

 

[Montecfo]

But wont it be harder to instill the proper sense of work ethic in kids who don't see their Dad trudging off to work every day? Are they really going to be motivated to get summer jobs, etc when I'm fishing every day?

In my experience, kids will work if parents are not giving them spending money.

I think achieving FI REQUIRES hard work, and that reality can be taught also, as well as basic age-appropriate money skills that are not taught effectively in school.

So I would not see retirement as impediment to teaching value of work.

 

[socca]

In my experience, kids will work if parents are not giving them spending money.

Two of my step-brothers decided to pester my stepfather for an early advance on their expected inheritance rather than get jobs. Now one of them is pestering my mother because "his" money is tied up in a QTIP trust until my mother's death. If I had a kid, I would leave money in a spendthrift trust even if the kid was good with money.

 

[soupcxan]

You could look at Mr Money Mustache or Root of Good to see how they're doing raising kids without doing the 9-6.

I would be more concerned with the message that your kids will pick up when you have almost $2M in net worth yet you enroll your kids in state Medicaid (a program designed for poverty-level households).

 

[respond2u]

I would be more concerned with the message that your kids will pick up when you have almost $2M in net worth yet you enroll your kids in state Medicaid (a program designed for poverty-level households).

It's not well-designed for poverty, is it? Both Medicaid and ACA avoid means testing and only use income.

It's similar to the income tax code that hits earners really hard and investors really soft.

Root of Good has optimized his income for our tax code... He's exactly what Washington wants, apparently.

 

[street]

My parents played a big part in learning to save and not be wasteful. You can do that (teach them) without having a job. Like some others have said when they get to where they can find a part time job (paper route) as a young person then you need to help them understand the value of money and how important it is to save be successful like you have been.

One thing that was big for me was my parents set me up with a savings account. The meaning of money and how things work started to click. That is something I feel is a step toward helping and teaching a child about money.

 

[rodi]

I would be more concerned with the message that your kids will pick up when you have almost $2M in net worth yet you enroll your kids in state Medicaid (a program designed for poverty-level households).

It can be quite hard to avoid this. We spend around $80k/year. Above the medicaid (in our case, mediCAL) limits... but we still get entangled with the kids enrolled in mediCAL this past year when I went to renew our ACA policy on CoveredCA.com. It took many, many, many hours on the phone with county social services and covered CA to convince them we don't qualify. In the meantime, my son was going through major surgery - through our covered california insurance (not mediCAL)... And it's still a giant mess - covered california seems to have messed up adding the kids back on to our insurance (Kaiser Permanente) and so far it's not resolved.

My point is the system is set with hard limits on your taxable income and will FORCE your kids onto medicaid if you are anywhere near that limit if you buy a policy through the exchange. And it can get quite messy to get them off. The system is not optimal. (to say the least.)

 

[FUEGO]

Just now tuning in

I retired 3.5 years ago (and my wife joined me exactly 1 year ago yesterday!) with 3 kids. The youngest was in diapers when I quit working.

I don't worry about my kids seeing me doing something productive in order to "absorb" a work ethic from me. They know I worked hard (enough), saved money and put it to work in investments. That's how we enjoy a FIRE'd lifestyle today. I also started a couple of ventures (blog; consulting) that keep me busy a few hours per week, so there are still times when I'm like "okay Daddy is going to close the office door and work for the next 2 hours". I also do occasional interviews with the media and podcasts and speak at financial conferences (usually online; once in person). Then there are the community/civic activities and volunteering.

It's just a very different lifestyle than what the vast majority of kids observe. We travel 3-9 weeks per summer and occasionally take time off during the school year to travel too. I spend very little time managing money or working for profit. The kids see me playing games, reading, relaxing, etc.

I'm hoping they learn the lesson that it's their life - grab it by the horns and get the most out of it. Earn a bunch, save most of it and enjoy a life of (mostly) leisure if that's what you want. We talk about this stuff occasionally so we keep everything in perspective. And when it comes to wealth, they know that our money is ours and they will be responsible for earning their own (but ours might be theirs when we are no longer with them but that will probably be a loooooong time).

In the meantime our kids are pretty well adjusted, doing phenomenally well in school, and on track to do well in early adulthood (except the youngest - jury is still out - he literally $hit himself last night but fortunately cleaning that up at midnight wasn't an issue since we can nap anytime we want).

 

[FUEGO]

I would be more concerned with the message that your kids will pick up when you have almost $2M in net worth yet you enroll your kids in state Medicaid (a program designed for poverty-level households).

Are you turning down the thousands of dollars in tax breaks you get when you receive tax-free health insurance benefits paid by your employer? I recall you were earning a six figure salary, so I presume you consider yourself well off enough to not need to suck thousands of dollars of subsidies from the public coffers.

Or maybe you're like the rest of us and accept whatever breaks you can get and pay taxes when you have to, and take all reasonable steps to minimize those taxes and maximize those benefits. It's simply smart, and I encourage my children to be smart.

 

[AnIntentionalRoad]

I retired at 43 with a 9 yo and 12 yo. They've benefited from having two full time parents involved in their lives.

They also watched me work hard at different non-career pursuits and contribute to the world generally.

I think it is much more important to demonstrate your values and your love for them than show that you are a dedicated wage slave. They'll learn much more about how to live a worthwhile life.