Finding a vehicle is almost impossible

[Car-Guy]

Imagine you haggle with Dealer 1 but can't reach agreement, so you decide to go elsewhere to see if you can do better. In the interim, Dealer 1 contacts Dealer 2 and says "this guy came in and $xxx is what I offered him." Dealer 2 contacts you and says "I see you're looking for this car, I have one for sale" so you go see Dealer 2, who offers you $xxx. Thinking that you're not going to get a better deal, you go ahead and buy it for $xxx from Dealer 2. Now, suppose Dealer 1 and Dealer 2 have agreed that they will contact each other like this when they can't make a sale. The dealers avoid bidding against each other for your business and the sales can be expected to balance out between them depending on which dealer you go to first.

That would be price fixing and a violation of the antitrust laws.

Agree in that "scenario" it would be (or should be) illegal. In the case of what I'm looking for, everyone is way over priced and none have been willing to deal. (So far) The best deal I've found so far is still 20 to 25k to much... IMO.

What I don't "get" is there are plenty available (at least 25) around Texas, and they are just sitting on the lots. Now that we know they are going make them again next year, I would have thought they'd start dealing. Maybe because that's all they have for now, until the new models start to come in... In anycase, I'm in no rush.

 

[JDARNELL]

I have a 2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid. I ordered a 22 in Nov of 21 and my order was rolled over. I waited 479 days for the vehicle and I love it. I routinely get 48 MPG local and on the interstate I still get 39 plus. It does everything I want it to do. I haul stuff all the time. A great purchase!

 

[street]

I have a 2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid. I ordered a 22 in Nov of 21 and my order was rolled over. I waited 479 days for the vehicle and I love it. I routinely get 48 MPG local and on the interstate I still get 39 plus. It does everything I want it to do. I haul stuff all the time. A great purchase!

That is excellent MPG. I really don't want to spend money on a new vehicle, but it might be the last vehicle I will ever buy in my lifetime.

I really think the Maverick will be the perfect match for my needs.

 

[JDARNELL]

That is excellent MPG. I really don't want to spend money on a new vehicle, but it might be the last vehicle I will ever buy in my lifetime.

I really think the Maverick will be the perfect match for my needs.

I was the same way but the reality is the money would just be extra in an estate so I went for it. Wife talked me into getting it loaded as I initially didn't have it built that way. I am so glad I did though!

 

[Spock]

Apparently you have to be a bit more careful if/when you do find the "new" vehicle you are looking for.
I was in the dealer sales manager's office last week and during the wind down they described horror stories of what it's like for them to receive vehicles now days.


They received a new pickup that had been completely trashed. They don't know if it was on one of the many train and trucking handoffs, but the vehicle had not been tied down. It bounced around and had about $15,000 in damage. The dealership tried to refuse delivery but the UAW driver delivering said "that ain't happening".
So the dealership spent about 8 months fixing it up and sold it... I doubt something like that would show up on a carfax....


Another vehicle they received had been broken into in the factory storage lot and homeless people lived in it.

 

[street]

I was the same way but the reality is the money would just be extra in an estate so I went for it. Wife talked me into getting it loaded as I initially didn't have it built that way. I am so glad I did though!

LOL!!! Interestingly my wife wants me to get the truck with more extras too, but I got bare bone as I could.

 

[brucethebroker]

I haven't seen new full sized (1/2 ton), single cab PU/s w/8' beds in years. Most/all are extended cabs with shorter beds. I have seen 8' beds on 1 ton PU's, but those are also extended cabs. Makes for a really big A** truck.

And many of those will not fit in the typical garage.

 

[Taco]

Good Grief! These stories remind me of a guy I used to work with back in the 1980’s. He had lived in the old Soviet Union. He finally got permission to emigrate and left for the USA. He told stories of being on waiting lists that lasted for months or years for new cars, appliances, etc.

Reagan told a good joke related to that long wait for new cars in the Soviet Union...

 

[Texas Proud]

Imagine you haggle with Dealer 1 but can't reach agreement, so you decide to go elsewhere to see if you can do better. In the interim, Dealer 1 contacts Dealer 2 and says "this guy came in and $xxx is what I offered him." Dealer 2 contacts you and says "I see you're looking for this car, I have one for sale" so you go see Dealer 2, who offers you $xxx. Thinking that you're not going to get a better deal, you go ahead and buy it for $xxx from Dealer 2. Now, suppose Dealer 1 and Dealer 2 have agreed that they will contact each other like this when they can't make a sale. The dealers avoid bidding against each other for your business and the sales can be expected to balance out between them depending on which dealer you go to first.

That would be price fixing and a violation of the antitrust laws.

Not what we experienced... but I agree it is against the law...


Our experience is my sister was looking to buy a few year back... there was ONE car that matched 100% of what she wanted in the Houston area and one in Dallas... I contacted all dealers in Houston, Dallas, Austin and San Antonio and any in between... I know 3 of them are owned by the same company and I got 3 different bids from those dealerships...


The really interesting part is that we bought it from the dealership that had it on the lot... but when we went to go buy it someone from the main dealership had sent someone to move it to their lot (which we drove by to get to the selling dealership)... so had to wait for someone to bring it back... The main wanted $2k over sticker... the one we bought eventually said they would sell for sticker if we bought it right away.... we were there in an hour...

 

[jazz4cash]

Last December I bought a 2022 Chevy Colorado Extended cab. I had a 2002 Chevy S10 that I loved but it was only 2wd. Chevy already fid away with regular cab on this model and I learned that the extended cab was going away for 2023. Also, no more V6 option. By the time I found out they were no longer taking orders for the 2022 model. My dealer was supposed to be looking for one in another dealer’s inventory. All the new trucks were being marked up over MSRP and used trucks cost more than new ones. I located one nearby and contacted the dealer. They rejected my offer initially so I said no thanks. I got a call back 30 min later and the deal was on. Really nice truck but I sure miss my old S10.

 

[pb4uski]

Well, back in for the day and see I had some great responses.

This morning I actually ordered one, a Maverick plain Jane as I could get. 4 cylinder, AWD, the only thing I splurge on was a tow package for 750$ which everything is built heavier and wiring harness is back there etc..
Total cost about 26700$ and said the longest they have had to wait for an order has been 20 weeks. If it is longer than that it will be fine for me.

20 weeks? Good luck. I've been waiting 12 months for mine, but I ordered the FWD hybrid with the trailer package. Perhaps you will get it quicker. The last time that I talked with the dealer they said the AWD configuration was easier to get. Wish I had known that when I ordered mine.

 

[pb4uski]

So did you get the $300 worth of stuff for free - or just not buy the car?

I didn't buy the car. I offered them full MSRP and they could delete the "protection package" but they said no.

 

[pb4uski]

And many of those will not fit in the typical garage.

Yeah, my garage is only 24' deep and I have storage shelves in the back, so only about 22' to park. My current 2016 GMC Canyon crew cab with a 5' box barely fits with enough room to walk behind the truck with the garage door closed. I guess I could move the shelves if I had to.

 

[street]

20 weeks? Good luck. I've been waiting 12 months for mine, but I ordered the FWD hybrid with the trailer package. Perhaps you will get it quicker. The last time that I talked with the dealer they said the AWD configuration was easier to get. Wish I had known that when I ordered mine.

I talked to another dealer today and he said they have two 2024 for delivery this October. They were ordered in June of this year. He did say some Mavericks models with configuration of option's do take longer. If I have to wait a year plus that will be okay with me. Not real excited about BTD but eventually I will need something.

I have a 2008 Colorado 4DR, 4x4 with 200K and has been used hard. It has stood up well with minor wear and tear items.

 

[pb4uski]

^^^ We had a 2005 Colorado that gave us very good service and ultimately the frame rusted so much that it wouldn't pass inspection so I traded it for a new 2016 Canyon, and tht has been a good truck too. Both 4WD, quad cab with 5' box.

When we bought the 2016 Canyon I was looking forward to getting a new tonneau cover, but unfortunately, the tonneau cover for the 2005 Colorado fit the 2016 Canyon.

 

[Texas Proud]

^^^ We had a 2005 Colorado that gave us very good service and ultimately the frame rusted so much that it wouldn't pass inspection so I traded it for a new 2016 Canyon, and tht has been a good truck too. Both 4WD, quad cab with 5' box.

When we bought the 2016 Canyon I was looking forward to getting a new tonneau cover, but unfortunately, the tonneau cover for the 2005 Colorado fit the 2016 Canyon.

Maybe it is just me but I think a modern car should not rust out in 10 years or so...

 

[pb4uski]

You would think so, but it is a common problem in the northeast. The brine that they use instead of salt to combat ice on the winter roads is a big culprit, as is the quality of metal used in modern vehicles.

 

[Andre1969]

From what various mechanics have told me over the the years, the problem these days is that the underlying structure of most vehicles. Frame (or sub-frames, as body-on-frame vehicles aren't as common) suspension components, welds, various brackets, bracing, etc, even the metal brake linings, just aren't as sturdy as they were back in the "bad old days".

So, while the cars might look nicer longer these days, because of advancements in paint technology, they can still be rotting underneath. So you can have one car that looks like swiss cheese but still has years of service left, while another glistens like new, but is about to break in half.

Here's one anecdote. Back in 1993 I went out to Michigan to see some friends. One thing that struck me as odd, was how many cars that were only 6-7 years old that were rustbuckets, but there were plenty of '70's cars running around that looked just fine. My friends said that was because your typical 70's car had already been repainted a few times, whereas the average 6-7 year old was still on its original paint, and due for a repaint.

Meanwhile, here in the DC area, I figured the American automakers pretty much started licking the rust problem with GM's downsized 1977 full-sized cars.

 

[JoeWras]

It never stops with Toyota.

Due to some mysterious problem, they have currently stopped production in Japan. Sheesh.

https://www.dw.com/en/toyota-halts-operations-at-all-of-its-japan-factories/a-66656164

 

[Out of Steam]

Meanwhile, here in the DC area, I figured the American automakers pretty much started licking the rust problem with GM's downsized 1977 full-sized cars.

DC has been outside of the vehicle rust belt for as long as I've been going there (early 1980s). Sometime since 2000 or so, the immediate New York City area seems to have few rusty vehicles.

 

[Koolau]

Imagine you haggle with Dealer 1 but can't reach agreement, so you decide to go elsewhere to see if you can do better. In the interim, Dealer 1 contacts Dealer 2 and says "this guy came in and $xxx is what I offered him." Dealer 2 contacts you and says "I see you're looking for this car, I have one for sale" so you go see Dealer 2, who offers you $xxx. Thinking that you're not going to get a better deal, you go ahead and buy it for $xxx from Dealer 2. Now, suppose Dealer 1 and Dealer 2 have agreed that they will contact each other like this when they can't make a sale. The dealers avoid bidding against each other for your business and the sales can be expected to balance out between them depending on which dealer you go to first.

That would be price fixing and a violation of the antitrust laws.

Never met a dealer who wouldn't trample his own grandmother to sell a car. Can't say no one ever colluded with another dealer, but I'd bet it's rare. YMMV

 

[Gumby]

Never met a dealer who wouldn't trample his own grandmother to sell a car. Can't say no one ever colluded with another dealer, but I'd bet it's rare. YMMV

For the last 11 years before I retired, I investigated potential antitrust violations and, when supported by the facts, prosecuted the violators. The situation originally described by Car-Guy - apparent communications between dealers, same prices while inventory remains unsold - is not ironclad proof, but it does make me suspicious. If what was described had occurred in my jurisdiction, I probably would have investigated further, perhaps issuing subpoenas. Collusion is not universal, but the incentives are always there for businesses to do it; putative competitors can usually all make more money if they fix prices and allocate markets, while ordinary consumers are left holding the bag. That's why we conducted investigations. More times than not, we decided that there either was no violation or that it would be too difficult to prove in court.

 

[Out of Steam]

It never stops with Toyota.

Due to some mysterious problem, they have currently stopped production in Japan. Sheesh.

The whole supply situation with Toyota and Honda is suspicious. Both companies seem to have taken the lesson from the pandemic that maintaining permanent scarcity of their vehicles is more profitable than meeting demand.

 

[Koolau]

The whole supply situation with Toyota and Honda is suspicious. Both companies seem to have taken the lesson from the pandemic that maintaining permanent scarcity of their vehicles is more profitable than meeting demand.

I'd suggest that should be "temporarily permanent" instead. Otherwise, eventually, some other top tier car company will come along and supplant Toyota (or other companies limiting their production.) Nothing happens in a vacuum.

I'm still guessing most of this is chip shortages.

 

[Out of Steam]

I'd suggest that should be "temporarily permanent" instead. Otherwise, eventually, some other top tier car company will come along and supplant Toyota (or other companies limiting their production.) Nothing happens in a vacuum.

I'm still guessing most of this is chip shortages.

I agree that intentional scarcity would probably be an unwise decision in the long-term. Customers who have to buy from other companies may become brand-loyal to that new car company.

Other possibilities:

1. Inability to fully staff factories in Japan, but being unable to move production for political reasons.
2. Deciding that it is uneconomic to bring back too much of their mothballed gasoline-powered vehicle production because it will need to be converted to EVs relatively soon.