Finding a vehicle is almost impossible

I was having the same issue a few months ago. To get the exact specs on a F150 I was looking for, the dealer had to factory order with a $500 refundable deposit and no guarantee on delivery month. Dealer gave me the MSRP and was not willing to negotiate up front. After doing some research I determined it would be better (and faster/cheaper) to look for a used low mileage 2021. Starting in 2022, Ford (and others) started “deleting” certain functions from packages due to supply-chain issues, thus 2021 still had all the bells and whistles.

I did a search, basically east of the Mississippi River, and found 2 trucks that met my exact wants/needs. (In addition to being a daily driver, it’s also my tow vehicle) Sold my used SUV to CarMax for about 4K over dealer trade in value and flew to Fort Wayne Indiana the next day to purchase the truck and start the drive home. Dealer picked me up at the airport about 50 minutes from their dealership in NW Ohio and had the truck ready to roll. During the drive they took me past a lot with many thousand brand new Chevy trucks as far as the eye could see awaiting chips, most parked in high grass. Only took 45 minutes to complete the transaction once at the dealership.

So the 14,000 miles on the truck saved me $20k in depreciation and about $600 annually in Virginia personal property tax.
 
dmpi said:
The pandemic started it all but now that we're here it's no real surprise that Toyota is choosing to keep dealer inventory to the bare minimum. 'Just in Time' is one of their manufacturing mantras. With that philosophy inventory is bad because it cost money to have unsold cars sit on lots. It's much more efficient to find a buyer first and then make the car to order. The downside is the customer must wait months and sometimes years for their cars and dealerships have been known to take financial advantage of customers who demand to have their car now vs. later. IMHO I don't see this way of selling going away. Porsche has done it for years.
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Competition.

Toyota is losing good will as this continues. It will matter. My goodness, on top of the shortage of sales, many of the dealers are taking advantage of the service side of the house too. A simple example from a Bogleheads thread.

And the dealers will scream shortage as long as they can.

It might take a while, but it will happen. GM didn't lose all its good will overnight in the 70s either. Competition eventually humbled that corporation.
 
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We needed a tow vehicle to pull our retirement travel trailer.

My preferred approach had always been a used ~3 year old vehicle for half the “sticker price”.

That model didn’t work in 2021. Showrooms were empty or had a few used trucks priced at or higher than new.

We opted to order a new 2021 F150 Powerboost. (hybrid) XLT. The hybrid adder won’t pay for itself in fuel savings, but I wanted the 7200W generator to power the trailer and/or part of the house as a backup generator.

We had a 20 year relationship with the dealer, who offered me $8000 for my 2014 Toyota Corolla and suggested I try to sell it on my own while we waited 5 months for the F150.

Amazingly, I ended up selling the Toyota to a different dealer for about $9K.

Even more amazing, the Ford financing deal got even better during the 5 month wait.

- We put down NO deposit
- We paid invoice price, below sticker (a real shocker)
- 0% Ford financing the entire balance for 4 years (cost of 0% was giving up a $1000 rebate)
- the financing really helps keep our taxable income down until 2026 when we both qualify for Medicare

I learned that the dealer buys the vehicle and we buy it from the dealer. Another deal had fallen through and we were offered that truck, but opted to wait for our order.

I hate spending the money, but we’re enjoying the travel trailer a lot.
 
Canoeboy said:
I was having the same issue a few months ago. To get the exact specs on a F150 I was looking for, the dealer had to factory order with a $500 refundable deposit and no guarantee on delivery month. Dealer gave me the MSRP and was not willing to negotiate up front. After doing some research I determined it would be better (and faster/cheaper) to look for a used low mileage 2021. Starting in 2022, Ford (and others) started “deleting” certain functions from packages due to supply-chain issues, thus 2021 still had all the bells and whistles.

I did a search, basically east of the Mississippi River, and found 2 trucks that met my exact wants/needs. (In addition to being a daily driver, it’s also my tow vehicle) Sold my used SUV to CarMax for about 4K over dealer trade in value and flew to Fort Wayne Indiana the next day to purchase the truck and start the drive home. Dealer picked me up at the airport about 50 minutes from their dealership in NW Ohio and had the truck ready to roll. During the drive they took me past a lot with many thousand brand new Chevy trucks as far as the eye could see awaiting chips, most parked in high grass. Only took 45 minutes to complete the transaction once at the dealership.

So the 14,000 miles on the truck saved me $20k in depreciation and about $600 annually in Virginia personal property tax.
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If you were looking for a new F150 today the lots have plenty of them sitting on lots now. Choices of any mixture of options and packages offered are not hard to find in a 200 miles radius of me now.
I done the exact thing you did see what was available and everyone I found used was more money than ordering new. I think some of the price variations are due to what type/model truck you want.
 
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a60dan said:
My preferred approach had always been a used ~3 year old vehicle for half the “sticker price”.

That model didn’t work in 2021. Showrooms were empty or had a few used trucks priced at or higher than new.
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Unless you were willing to buy an unpopular vehicle, that model had stopped working a year or two before the pandemic.
 
Texas Proud said:
Maybe he was thinking trucks...


Best-Selling Trucks Of 2022

  • Ford F-Series: 653,957.
  • Chevrolet Silverado: 523,249.
  • Ram Pickups: 468,344.
  • GMC Sierra: 241,522.
  • Toyota Tacoma: 237,323.
  • Toyota Tundra: 104,246.
  • Chevrolet Colorado: 89,197.
  • Jeep Gladiator: 77,855
Click to expand...
Interesting numbers. In the past it "seemed" like more Ford PU's running around here. Now it seems to be more Ram's and Toyota's in this part of the country. I've certainly seen more new CDJR dealerships popping up in this part of the country than any others.
 
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Update on the Toyota production SNAFU. They are back up and running. Lines were stopped for about a day, an estimated $365M in revenue. Analysts doubt they can make it up because they were already pressing the lines harder than ever.

Another analyst says sources say it was a problem when they updated their ordering system. (Dang I.T. department again!)

https://money.usnews.com/investing/...obal-sales-jump-in-july-to-hit-monthly-record
Toyota, which restarted operations at its Japanese assembly plants on Wednesday, has seen production recovering this year. The full-day outage at its domestic plants could be equivalent to $356 million in revenue, Reuters calculations based on output data and financial reporting showed.

The company said its global sales had risen 8% in July from the same month a year earlier to a record 859,506 vehicles. It also reported a 15% increase in global production in that month.

The automaker has now posted year-on-year increases in global sales for six straight months, and production increases for seven, highlighting its recovery from last year's supply chain snarlups and COVID-19 containment measures.

Both figures include Toyota's Lexus luxury brand.

Sales in China fell 15% in July, contrasting with stronger sales in Japan, the United States and Europe. Domestic sales rose 35% and those in the U.S. increased by 8%.
Click to expand...
 
The used market is crazy. According to KBB, my Jeep Rubicon, wholesale value, is worth more than I paid for it. By the time I trade it in on the new Bronco, I will have driven it for 3.5 years and had it appreciate. Never thought I’d see the day.
Says something about inflation, supply chain issues and maybe a bit about buying sought after vehicles.
 
JoeWras said:
Competition.

Toyota is losing good will as this continues. It will matter. My goodness, on top of the shortage of sales, many of the dealers are taking advantage of the service side of the house too. A simple example from a Bogleheads thread.

And the dealers will scream shortage as long as they can.

It might take a while, but it will happen. GM didn't lose all its good will overnight in the 70s either. Competition eventually humbled that corporation.
Click to expand...

I’ve read that Toyota’s big issue is that their hybrids are selling very very well. And they take more of the harder to find chips and other parts than the traditional ICE cars use. Given the price of gas in my area, now well over $5 a gallon, I can believe it, at in least my neck of the woods.
 
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Chuckanut said:
I’ve read that Toyota’s big issue is that their hybrids are selling very very well. And they take more of the harder to find chips and other parts than the traditional ICE cars use. Given the price of gas in my area, now well over $5 a gallon, I can believe it, at in least my neck of the woods.
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Yeah, I don't doubt it. But if they could pivot production and pump out full ICE, at least for the next two model years, they could sell without a problem. They may be doing this anyway, it is hard to tell.

So many things have converged over the last three years. The pandemic and its shortages. The fires at Toyota's suppliers. The continuing increase in Toyota's reputation, because the internet says so. Just read here, Bogleheads or even reddit. The aging population that grew up with Toyota as "the other guy", and may have finally capitulated. My greatest generation parents did that in the last years. Quality trouble at esteemed competitors like Honda. The looming switch to EVs. And so on.
 
street said:
Been trying to find a good used small truck and it has been impossible. So, my next step is looking into ordering one. Right now, I'm planning on looking to get a Ford Maverick.

I know there are folks here that have ordered a vehicle, and do you have to put money down when ordering one? Are there any other tips you can share about the process in ordering a vehicle.
Click to expand...

I was planning on ordering a 2024 Maverick back in July but the price for a base model hybrid has gone up 25% since the Maverick debuted as a 2022 model. They started out at ~20K when they came out and the hybrid was the standard powertrain. Now the Ecoboost turbo (non-hybrid) is the standard powertrain and they want almost 26.5 K MSRP for a base model hybrid. I would have ordered a bed cap for it so that would have been over 30K. Plus dealer mark-ups along with waiting over a year for one? No thank you.

We currently own a GMC Canyon 2wd regular cab 5-speed pickup with a bed cap. The rocker panels are swiss cheese, but it looks like we'll keep it as a back-up truck and drive it until it rusts to the point where it's no longer safe. (like I did with my 1995 Chevy S-10)

So now we're waiting for delivery of a 2024 Chevy Trax wagon. Not a hybrid, but less than $23K out the door for a loaded LS model. It doesn't get the 42 mpg hwy that the Maverick does, but we'll settle for the 32 mpg that we'll get on the highway with the Trax. Plus it comes with a 6-speed transmission instead of the CVT that the Maverick hybrid does. And our local GM dealer is offering the WarrantyForever program where they claim they'll warranty the entire powertrain (including the turbo!) for life if I agree not to do my own oil changes but instead bring it to any authorized service center for all the scheduled maintenance.

It looks like Ram and Toyota might be returning to the small (although unibody, fwd-based) truck world in the next couple of years so there might be more to choose from in a few years.
 
ArmchairMillionaire23 said:
And our local GM dealer is offering the WarrantyForever program where they claim they'll warranty the entire powertrain (including the turbo!) for life if I agree not to do my own oil changes but instead bring it to any authorized service center for all the scheduled maintenance.
Click to expand...

Read the very fine print. One of our local 'Yota dealers has this and you have to follow their maintenance listing exactly. It is more than oil, it is all the stuff they list on the board at the service center. You know, the $150 cabin air filter.

Even if not, check their cost for oil changes. Many dealers charge in the $100 to $200 range these days.
 
I believe it. I had a big to-do with my Subaru dealer many years ago. I went in for an oil change at 30k miles. The tech pitched a 30k miles maintenance package with a bunch of stuff beyond the manufacturer's recommended 30k mile maintenance totalling $450! I pointed out that at 30k miles the manufacturer only recommended an oil/filter change and tire rotation. He replied that "they" recommended all this other stuff. It turns out that "they" was the dealer. I told him that was self serving since the dealer makes money on all the recommended stuff that the manufacturer doesn't recommend. He shrugged. I got an oil/filter change and tire rotation, later wrote a harsh email to the service manager about how they are ripping off their customers and haven't stepped foot in the place since. I hate cheaters.
 
pb4uski said:
I believe it. I had a big to-do with my Subaru dealer many years ago. I went in for an oil change at 30k miles. The tech pitched a 30k miles maintenance package with a bunch of stuff beyond the manufacturer's recommended 30k mile maintenance totalling $450! I pointed out that at 30k miles the manufacturer only recommended an oil/filter change and tire rotation. He replied that "they" recommended all this other stuff. It turns out that "they" was the dealer. I told him that was self serving since the dealer makes money on all the recommended stuff that the manufacturer doesn't recommend. He shrugged. I got an oil/filter change and tire rotation, later wrote a harsh email to the service manager about how they are ripping off their customers and haven't stepped foot in the place since. I hate cheaters.
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LOL... reminds me of the Hyundai dealer that I was going to... you pulled your car up and the FIRST thing they did before diving it to the back was check your wheel alignment... it seems that all of my cars were out of alignment :facepalm: :LOL:.... They did it for a few years but I think they got enough complaints or lost enough business they stopped..



I had stopped going there for the Hyundai but now have Genesis and have been there a couple of times and they are back to normal...
 
Not all dealers are that way. Mine has a good practice when you make a service appointment online.
The website has a series of menus, so when you schedule your XX,000 mile service, you can choose from the "Factory recommended" service for $XX or the "Dealer recommended" service at $YY.
They itemize what's included in each version so you know exactly what you get. The extras in the dealer version have never been compelling for me, so I ignore that, but at least everything is out in the open for you to choose.
 
braumeister said:
Not all dealers are that way. Mine has a good practice when you make a service appointment online.
The website has a series of menus, so when you schedule your XX,000 mile service, you can choose from the "Factory recommended" service for $XX or the "Dealer recommended" service at $YY.
They itemize what's included in each version so you know exactly what you get. The extras in the dealer version have never been compelling for me, so I ignore that, but at least everything is out in the open for you to choose.
Click to expand...

That dealer is GOLD. When I bought my Subaru, it was just like this. The service writer had a heart of gold and was a great guy.

He retired and new management took over. This is probably why he retired.

After that, it became hard sell nonsense.

I wish for you that your dealer doesn't take on this same pervasive practice that is sweeping the industry.
 
ArmchairMillionaire23 said:
I was planning on ordering a 2024 Maverick back in July but the price for a base model hybrid has gone up 25% since the Maverick debuted as a 2022 model. They started out at ~20K when they came out and the hybrid was the standard powertrain. Now the Ecoboost turbo (non-hybrid) is the standard powertrain and they want almost 26.5 K MSRP for a base model hybrid. I would have ordered a bed cap for it so that would have been over 30K. Plus dealer mark-ups along with waiting over a year for one? No thank you.
Click to expand...


I've been interested in the Maverick hybrid, in a middle trim as I've gotten used to a heated seat and a few other creature comforts, but don't find it a particularly good value at something approaching $35K out the door.
 
braumeister said:
Not all dealers are that way. Mine has a good practice when you make a service appointment online.

The website has a series of menus, so when you schedule your XX,000 mile service, you can choose from the "Factory recommended" service for $XX or the "Dealer recommended" service at $YY.

They itemize what's included in each version so you know exactly what you get. The extras in the dealer version have never been compelling for me, so I ignore that, but at least everything is out in the open for you to choose.
Click to expand...
That's the way it should be done. Full transparency.
 
Texas Proud said:
LOL... reminds me of the Hyundai dealer that I was going to... you pulled your car up and the FIRST thing they did before diving it to the back was check your wheel alignment... it seems that all of my cars were out of alignment :facepalm: ...
Click to expand...

I had a dealer that I went to that checked the alignment when you pulled your car up. I thought it was pretty cool. But I wasn't ever seriously out of alignment.
 
A few months ago, I found a dealer willing to let me adjust options on any vehicle they had on order that was not yet built (in my case a 4WD Tacoma with V6). I deleted most options to get to an out the door price (at MSRP) of just over $37k, and got the truck in less than 3 weeks. Happy with the Tacoma as it drives great and tows well.
 
pb4uski said:
My 2023 Maverick XLT hybrid is scheduled to be produced this week! :dance:
Click to expand...

I been wanting to check with you to see if you got that new ride yet. I see Ford Strike maybe coming to an end.

I did see where the Maverick is built in Mexico, and they don't belong to UAW, so building was continuing but parts was an issue with strike.

With a VIN number which you should have You can track it here:
https://shop.ford.com/vehicleordert...5dau8axzpzZV8CrN6iqM670FXy8qlxA60WtRl4_HFpE#/
I'm sure you know that though.
 
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