Food preference - Restaurants

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One of the points that was discussed in the OP link was that of "Blockchain"... I'm a little surprised that no one picked up on that. After reading about that, and going to some allied links, I see this as the next part of all materials (not just food) from the source to the consumer... a subject for discussion that picks up on a currently active part of AI, not just theory or "sometime in the future".

Would you be willing to start a new thread on that? I'm interested, I've heard about blockchain being applicable to more than just bitcoin, but know nothing about it.

As far as "turning away from meat"? I don't see it that way, though certainly more and more places offer vegetarian/vegan options. But meat is still there on the menu.

-ERD50
 
We live in a tourist town and restaurant food quality is mediocre at best. Lots of down market stuff like Applebee's, Outback, Bad Rib Joints (Way too dry and salty), Southern Everything is Fried Places, Longhorn, Way too much salt, over priced etc. We do have a good Asian restaurant and a local seafood place that gets our business regularly but that is about it.
Yeah, it’s super tough when those are your only options. Where my Dad lives we feel like we are in a restaurant desert. Huddle House dominates, and if you go into a larger city it’s still mostly fried chicken and chicken wings type places plus other fast food. A few ethnic but most aren’t that good. So we’re down to one decent Vietnamese restaurant. Had a couple of good Thai places, but both went downhill.
 
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Probably no one is impacted by all these factors, but some people have changed their habits because of one or more.
  • Discretionary income has been slowly declining for decades, so discretionary expenses like restaurants are going to see a slow decline.
  • Beef has increased in cost more than most proteins, so beef is just less affordable, so beef has seen a slow decline.
  • Animal cruelty and the environmental impact of beef in particular are more well known now. The same with over fishing and subsequently issues with farm raised fish. That impacts some potential dining choices.
  • Eating healthy, vegetarian has (very) slowly become more popular, that's going to create more demand (at the expense of animal proteins) which yields more creative menu options for healthy or vegetarian eaters. Some will choose an interesting vegetarian option at $20 more often than a $50 ribeye these days. Where there used to be dedicated steak houses with few if any non beef menu items, don't they all offer a few other options these days?
  • Right or wrong, people seem to move faster these days, they're busier or think they are. Those folks are less likely to dine slow, that means restaurants are going to face more competition from food carts, good trucks, fast food, fast casual, etc.
  • Where diners had one dedicated server before, nowadays there's an order taker, runners and other assorted wait-staff that really don't have any idea what "their" diners are experiencing. Even in high end restaurants now you sometimes have runner come to a table with an armful of entrees asking "who had the salmon." That doesn't pass for restaurant service to some people.
  • A 15% tip used to be the norm. Now it's 18%, 20% even 25% in some markets. Go to downtown Chicago and you can add $40 for parking and up to 12% restaurant tax and dinner out gets pricey quick. Expense account diners may not care, but others do.
  • People can have food delivered directly from restaurants nowadays - though I don't have any idea what impact that's having on traditional restaurants.
  • The quality of groceries has improved dramatically, so you don't have to go to a restaurant to have foods prepared with great ingredients. Between Whole Foods, Trader Joes, Earth Fare and many smaller regional specialty food places, and even far better selection at chain grocery stores - you can now make anything you want at home if you live in a large or medium metro area. That used to be a lot harder.
  • Cooking is way more fashionable now. We have the Food Network, the Cooking Channel and cooking shows on many networks now because people are watching. It used to be Julia Child and then the Galloping Gourmet - and you couldn't get many of the ingredients they used then.
  • The home open kitchen has become a showplace in modern homes with restaurant grade appliance and equipment, granite/quartz/marble counters, stainless steel appliances, etc. A far cry from the small isolated kitchen with chipboard cabinets, formica counters, plain white appliances and cheap Revere Ware from generations ago.
And all the factors above working against traditional restaurants are going to force slimmer margins in an effort to maintain top line. Like any business, and most industries. [The health care industry is one of the few exceptions in the US today - they still get to increase prices almost as they please.]
Nice summary. DH and I have really enjoyed the incredible increase in ingredient quality and diversity and enthusiastically embraced cooking great meals at home. As a result, we do most dining at home. Ironically we now eat way more beef than we used to. Decades ago we avoided it, but ultimately becoming skilled at grilling we started to enjoy it regularly at home.

We haven’t been part of the vegetarian trend though. Certain approaches might be more healthy, and we eat plenty of veggies, but we are committed omnivores.
 
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It's gotten to where we only eat out once per week on average. And since we're raising our 7 year old granddaughter, it's pretty simple foods that she prefers.

The other week, my wife and I took our granddaughter and her 11 year old brother to Applebees and the bill was $73 not including tip. And that was eating the specials. I don't know how young people can eat out so often and save enough for their retirement.

When we're out and around and ask everyone in the car what they'd like to eat, I cannot get a decision from the crowd. Nothing's really very appetizing to us.

I grew up in a city where "Meat and 3's" were what we ate. Cracker Barrel food is the food my mother cooked, and still what we prefer. And finding that kind of food is now difficult--even in the Deep South. And even Cracker Barrel food quality is deteriorating.

I saw where McDonalds nix'd their quality burgers and are pushing Quarter Pounders again. They've just done away with their budget menu, and you can get quality food elsewhere for what they're charging for inedible junk food. All the rest of the fast food chains are offering $5-$6 specials--most of which are not desirable either.

I'm just glad that my wife and I are both great cooks, and we switch up preparing meals. Most of what we cook today is on the grill. And using our air cooker and microwave, we seldom ever spend but a few minutes cooking. And with the money we save by cooking at home, we travel internationally.
 
Bamaman said:
I don't know how young people can eat out so often and save enough for their retirement.

+1

Or enough for any of the 'good things' of life.

When I quite MegaCorp to get my teaching credential, we had to cut back expenses quite a bit. One of the biggest and least uncomfortable cuts was eating out. Even one meal a week adds up to a lot of money at hear end.

Today, I eat out for three reasons:

1. I am traveling and far from home.
2. I want to enjoy a food that I can't realistically prepare in my kitchen.
3. Social time with friends.
 
When we eat out it is often Thai or Vietnamese. We never eat at chains/franchises nor do we eat any of the fast foods. Once in a while Italian but usually at a small, family run restaurant. No interest in an Olive Garden like chain.

Since retiring and spending winters in SE Asia we eat less meat, chicken, etc. and a good deal more fresh veg. and fruit. We find ourselves craving this food when we return home. We live in cattle country. We never bother with a steak house. We can get the same product and results at home simply by buying the right meat.

The one exception to fast food is a cooked rotisserie chicken from Costco.

Like others, I had a career that involved travel, eating out, entertaining, etc. It gets old pretty quick.
 
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There are a zillion eating trends. Fast casual (chain) restaurants continue to thrive due to offering meals under $5 per person. Though they are not healthy family time constraints continue to support these meals.

Yes there is new hope for those who don't want to eat meat. You will pay a premium and I think for many it will attract "veggies" or those who want to cut down on muscle based proteins. Also those who don't like all the farting livestock adding to our greenhouse gases will naturally move to this type of product.

Restaurants are the worst investment ever. I know of many people who could cook a brisket or had some special sauce that wanted to parlay that into a stand alone restaurant. Most all of these died the quick death.

The advent of food carts has been really exciting. I'm in a city where there are hundred all over different parts of town. This allows that person who is excited to get a culinary idea going with maybe 10% of the investment. If you have a winner then you can go to brick and mortar. Many have done this exact thing.

Lastly the invention of fresh food in deli's or commissaries now gives people an option to buy food with little or no preparation. It's the generational piece of younger adults not wanting to spend an hour in the kitchen after they have worked.

I always study the ebb and flow of crappy chain restaurants (insert mediocre chain here) that serve barely palatable food and then build their prices up only to get killed when a recession hits and people become more discriminating. Then it's some sort of reinvention or new pricing strategy to draw those back in.

I retired out of the food industry and studied consumer trends for years in changing eating habits and ethnic food trends. There will continue to be many changes long after we're gone.
 
Would you be willing to start a new thread on that? I'm interested, I've heard about blockchain being applicable to more than just bitcoin, but know nothing about it.

As far as "turning away from meat"? I don't see it that way, though certainly more and more places offer vegetarian/vegan options. But meat is still there on the menu.

-ERD50

Yeah... I realize that not everyone visits suggested links. Here is one of dozens of articles on the use of blockchain in the food industry. It's just a tiny part of what is happening in almost all modern businesses, not just the food business.

https://rsmus.com/what-we-do/industries/consumer-products/food-and-beverage/blockchain-future-in-food-and-beverage-companies-is-now.html

An excerpt:
There’s a common misnomer about the term blockchain. When people hear blockchain they automatically think of cryptocurrency or bitcoin, the much bandied about digitized currency.
Actually, in terms of food and beverage businesses, blockchain refers to the system or mechanism to securely transact data across several computers and within the consensus network. So, in real terms, produce inventory and supply chain data can be submitted, stored, tracked and evaluated, from farm to table, across multiple parties and jurisdictions. Data provenance, or the origin of that data, is also securely stored. In the case of a produce ingredient, all information from original grower, processor, transporter, manufacturer and so forth is entered across the consensus network distributed ledger, all parts having submission access, but with no central authority. This decentralized approach allows for greater system utilization, increased maintenance efficiencies and faster response times, for instance, during a product recall. With blockchain, the offending source ingredient is identified quickly, often before the product reaches the retailer, stopping or lessening the recall’s overall impact.



This is the narrow part of blockchain in just one industry. You can extract the framework to envision the same kinds of efficiencies in most major businesses. Definitely on the planning calendar. Some analysts see current usage in the 5% t0 10% range, with projections of up to 95 percent within the next 2 to 5 years.

One more link for blockchain in other industries.
https://rsmus.com/what-we-do/services/blockchain-consulting/blockchain-impacts-by-industry.html

I look at the tracking policy of Amazon, as the front edge of what blockchain will provide in the future for material businesses.
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The "turning away from meat" part of the discussion seems to hit a nerve. In point of fact... not a tomorrow event, but probably an evolving trend... five or ten years, or more.

Just as we see changes in lifestyles, healthcare, medicine and long term care... another part of what will be the norm most younger people. Think of not leaving the house for meals... (drone delivery) and restaurants being social gathering places. Hey! Who knows? :)
 
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Most restaurants are nothing more than chains in my area. Not just the fast food troughs but also the more middle of the road restaurants (Roy's, Carraba's, Bonefish grill, etc.) A dinner for 2 is about $100-120 for appetizer, main course, dessert, drink. I can prepare most any meal like that for both of us for about $35. My wife and I have also worked in a few restaurants in the past and have our long list of horror stories regarding food handling and sanitary concerns.





Cheers!
 
We rarely order appetizers or dessert. Just don’t need that much food. No shortage of meat on the menus locally.
 
>>One of the points that was discussed in the OP link was that of "Blockchain"... I'm a little surprised that no one picked up on that. After reading about that, and going to some allied links, I see this as the next part of all materials (not just food) from the source to the consumer... a subject for discussion that picks up on a currently active part of AI, not just theory or "sometime in the future".>>

Oh, I "picked up on it" as I keep a superficial eye on new technologies, especially logistics as it impacts a couple of friends who work in jobs where they manage such. What Wal-Mart is doing with blockchain is really interesting.

However, the title of the thread is "food preferences/restaurants". Blockchain should really be reserved for a separate thread, especially since discussion of it has to involve - as you pointed out - many other industries besides the hospitality industry.

Mixing the two topics will simply confuse replies.
 
To answer the OPs question, we really like a good Chinese "Eat In" restaurant, unfortunately all there are is take out where we live. Thankfully our local Take out is VERY Good.
 
One of my sons works for a company that does consumer studies on foods.
Yesterday he casually tossed out a two part concern that may or may not be related. We didn't get into it, except for pointing out these two issues.

1. The food business is rapidly turning away from meat.
2. Restaurants are having serious financial strains.

Since I hadn't heard of either of these concerns, I thought to toss it out as a possible subject for discussion. I haven't seen this in the news, except for the possible effect of the move to vegetarianism.

Thoughts?
We don't eat out much and it's mostly because we don't want to have to tip on top of sky-high prices. We're such easy customers that all we require is silverware, napkins, and the occasional refill. We choose places that are the "order at the counter and someone brings it to you and leaves you alone" variety. We find that often, when we do go to 'real restaurants', one of us is left with an empty glass and waitstaff nowhere to be found. And we still have to tip? No thank you.

Also, we find that we don't enjoy the atmosphere in 'real restaurants' anymore. They are too loud, too cold, too crowded, and it seems that no place is off limits for kids, so there is always a screaming child or two nearby. Even in the expensive places. Again, no thank you.

As for the part about meat, we have noticed that meat of all kind has been pared back into smaller portions, while the price either remains the same or has gone up. That salad with steak strips? it's now decreased by half the steak it used to come with. A Greek salad with grilled chicken breast on top? It's now "thin slices" and suspiciously looks like a much smaller portion than before. Chicken sandwich? They bring back memories of the "where's the beef?!" commercials, except in this case, it's "where's the chicken?" We don't order steaks much (I never do because the cooks never get it right--it's always too red inside), they are smaller, thinner, and much tougher than they used to be, so a steak ordered out for one of the guys is a rare thing.

Restaurants are suffering/closing? That's interesting to me. In my area (about 500,000 in the county, more in the wider metro area) where people seem to do nothing but eat out, the eateries are always full... from Ruth's Chris down to Chick Fil A. Busy all the time. In fact, Wednesday, I met a friend for lunch at a steak & seafood place, and at 11:15, the wait for two people was an hour. However, there are always restaurants closing and opening, so I wonder if that it is just the people in my area who get tired of the great, new place after a few months of it being open, or is that the nationwide trend? I thought this area was 'special' in that during the Great Recession, one STILL couldn't get into any kind of sit-down restaurant without an hour-long wait for a party of two. We used to be astounded at the people standing around outside on any given day, waiting to be seated, when the nation was in a recession. Either it didn't hit here, or people simply financed all of their meals. So, I wonder how much of what you and your son noticed is regional?

I don't think the is a link between the move to eat less meat and the struggling restaurant industry is a big one yet. In fact, it's darned hard around here, even with umpteen million places to choose from to eat a meal, to find a place that has more than one or two vegetarian meals on their menu. They all still have an abundance of meat dishes.
 
When we go out to eat it's rarely to a chain, and more likely to be sushi than most other choices.

That said, I do like a nice steak house. Sure we can cook a good steak at home, but I am a fan of the red center with a charred outside that's harder to get right. Also, a good steak restaurant will have some pretty creative side dishes, and one meal means a nice take home bag for a 2nd dinner.
 
When we go out to eat it's rarely to a chain, and more likely to be sushi than most other choices.



That said, I do like a nice steak house. Sure we can cook a good steak at home, but I am a fan of the red center with a charred outside that's harder to get right. Also, a good steak restaurant will have some pretty creative side dishes, and one meal means a nice take home bag for a 2nd dinner.


I haven’t had much luck with a take-home of a good steak dinner but there’s a local Italian family-owned place that makes amazing meals that don’t scrimp on size. I’ve never attempted to make veal parmigiana but don’t need to because they’ve got some magic happening over there and the portion size ends up being two meals. It’s pricey if you have it for one meal but a good price for one-there and another-at-home.

My microwave has a great sensor-triggered reheat setting that rarely fails to reheat dishes to nearly-fresh served. No drying out or guessing on time/power.
 
Probably no one is impacted by all these factors, but some people have changed their habits because of one or more.
  • Where diners had one dedicated server before, nowadays there's an order taker, runners and other assorted wait-staff that really don't have any idea what "their" diners are experiencing. Even in high end restaurants now you sometimes have runner come to a table with an armful of entrees asking "who had the salmon." That doesn't pass for restaurant service to some people.
  • A 15% tip used to be the norm. Now it's 18%, 20% even 25% in some markets. Go to downtown Chicago and you can add $40 for parking and up to 12% restaurant tax and dinner out gets pricey quick. Expense account diners may not care, but others do.
And all the factors above working against traditional restaurants are going to force slimmer margins in an effort to maintain top line. Like any business, and most industries. [The health care industry is one of the few exceptions in the US today - they still get to increase prices almost as they please.]

Good summary but I've highlighted the two that annoy me the most. I hate it when they wander around with dishes asking who ordered what, and I remember when 15% was a tip for very good service. And of course, the chains are moving towards tablet computers at the tables to cut labor costs- with video games built in for an extra charge! Just got back from Chicago with my 5-year old granddaughter and dinner at the Hilton (shrimp and pasta for me, pizza from the kids menu for her, and one glass of wine) was $58 with tip. Crazy.

Another thought: so few places take reservations. I can understand why, but when DS, DDIL and I were looking for a nice place for a special occasion dinner last week (along with the granddaughters, ages 2 and 5), the only place that was willing to take a reservation offered us 8 PM- way too late for the little ones. They're very good in restaurants and eat a wide variety of food (when we ended up at our old standby Thai restaurant and I ordered 2 servings of seaweed salad they devoured most of it), but sitting at the bar for an hour waiting for a table, or sitting on benches at the front, is not an option.
 
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That said, I do like a nice steak house. Sure we can cook a good steak at home, but I am a fan of the red center with a charred outside that's harder to get right.

Suis vide the steak to the perfect internal doneness (your choice), then sear to your hearts content or finish on a grill. Perfect steaks every time. DW has perfected this: so good.
 
As to the the next gen, over the holidays the two vegetarian college students in the extended family had given it up. One was having health problems on that diet and the other said it had just been a phase that she and her friends had outgrown. She's back to bacon and eggs for breakfast.

I've seen examples like that as well.
Although I saw an IPO last week (beyond meat BYND) that skyrocketed.
 
As a vegan, I find it hard to believe the average person is eating less meat. I think statistically 1% of the population is vegan. Del Taco just rolled out the Beyond Meat taco and I asked two cashiers how it's doing. Both said the taco was selling well, to my surprise.

I look at high rents, high food prices and high labor costs as the biggest reason for restaurants struggling.

As an aside, why don't some restaurants offer at least one vegan dish. No vegan dish, I don't go and I don't bring my family. Doesn't make sense.
 
When I go to a restaurant, I don't generally order a steak, or a burger (I can fix fantastic ones at home on the grill). I do order seafood/fish, and chicken/pork/veal meals usually with noodles/potatoes. I have also gotten away from french fries, and choose onion rings, or seasoned rice as a side.
Yes. When I go out I often eat seafood for same reasons. Also avoid fried foods.

I would say I eat less beef but not less meat. Eat more chicken pork and seafood.
 
[*] The quality of groceries has improved dramatically, so you don't have to go to a restaurant to have foods prepared with great ingredients. Between Whole Foods, Trader Joes, Earth Fare and many smaller regional specialty food places, and even far better selection at chain grocery stores - you can now make anything you want at home if you live in a large or medium metro area. That used to be a lot harder.

They also have a section of already prepared food with a good variety of choices, both hot and cold. Meatballs, chicken, rice, potato dishes, salads and slaws, etc.

That probably doesn't affect the mid and higher up restaurants, but I bet that a lot of chain fast food places never thought that their bottom line would be hurt by a bag of salad or a tub of coleslaw and a rotisserie chicken.
 
I don't know how young people can eat out so often and save enough for their retirement.
I ate out a lot while working and it didn’t keep me from retiring early. We weren’t doing the expense account style high dollar meals. It was well within our budget so we still saved plenty and investments grew.

We ate out primarily at lunch which is usually a far better deal.
 
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