Golf Talk Tuesdays - 2021

[RetiredHappy]

Fittings aren’t always the silver bullet many people think these days. They can help you find clubs that MAY improve your distance - though some of that is stronger loft slight of hand. In most cases, custom fitted clubs won’t help you deliver the club at impact on the right path, dynamic loft and face angle - the player has to develop that skill.

I agree with you that clubs don't help a lousy golfer - that's me... well, I am passable as an amateur golfer. However, my husband is a really good golfer and I think that's why he is so pissed. He carries a 5 to 7 handicap.

 

[Midpack]

I agree with you that clubs don't help a lousy golfer - that's me... well, I am passable as an amateur golfer. However, my husband is a really good golfer and I think that's why he is so pissed. He carries a 5 to 7 handicap.

You should be able to tell exactly what shafts they put in his new irons, I’ve never seen any brand that wasn’t clearly marked. Cleveland Launchers and Titleist T300’s are unusual choices for a 5 to 7 HI player, but if that’s what he prefers. And unfortunately a low handicap doesn’t guarantee a good fit at any fitter, CC or elsewhere. Very sorry, I know the feeling - I wasted $400+ at CC, probably a lot less than your DH.

 

[RetiredHappy]

You should be able to tell exactly what shafts they put in his new irons, I’ve never seen any brand that wasn’t clearly marked. Cleveland Launchers and Titleist T300’s are unusual choices for a 5 to 7 HI player, but if that’s what he prefers. And unfortunately a low handicap doesn’t guarantee a good fit at any fitter, CC or elsewhere. Very sorry, I know the feeling - I wasted $400+ at CC, probably a lot less than your DH.

The shafts on his Titleist T300s are Accra 50i series. When we go to the Accra site, we have no clue because under each weight (50, 60 etc..), there is also Flex which is not printed on the shaft itself. I suspect these shafts were ordered by Club Champion as opposed to off-the-shelf shafts on the Titleist irons.

He paid $2800 for his 2 Ping hybrids and the set of Titleist irons. The Ping hybrids are fine, the irons, not so much.

 

[zinger1457]

Unfortunately, my husband's fitting ends with a sad tale, so far. He had also been playing with Cleveland Launcher irons for the past 2 years. He had gotten a couple of Callaway sand and gap wedges earlier this year. With his fitting, Trackman showed that the Titleist T300 gave him slightly longer distance when compared with his Cleveland's.

He ordered 2 new Ping hybrids and a full set of Titleist T300s (P to 5) and it took 2 months to get here, because they had to be "built". He got them last week and the Titleist irons were playing much shorter than his old irons. He is very upset and we are going back to Club Champion tomorrow with both his old and new irons to see what Trackman says. At this point he is about ready to give them to Goodwill and order a set of Cleveland Launcher XL Halo. Yesterday, on one hole, he used my new (women's) 7 iron and it went as far as his old Cleveland's and further than his new Titleist. I suspect they gave him old man's shafts instead of standard. We don't know when looking at his shafts.

Never used Club Champion so not sure how their guarantee works but worse case he could sell the T300's on eBay and get a decent price. Would like to hear how things went with the follow up trip to Club Champion, will be up in Scottsdale AZ next month and was thinking of stopping by the facility there.

 

[zinger1457]

I suspect these shafts were ordered by Club Champion as opposed to off-the-shelf shafts on the Titleist irons.

He paid $2800 for his 2 Ping hybrids and the set of Titleist irons. The Ping hybrids are fine, the irons, not so much.

Are you saying the shafts you ended up with weren't the same shafts that were used during the fitting? That seems very odd and kind of defeats the purpose of the fitting.

 

[harllee]

I had posted earlier about needing new irons and I wanted "tall" womens irons because I am over 5"10 and I had always played with "tall" womens clubs. I looked locally and could not even find any tall womens clubs to demo anywhere. I don't play enough to justify buying custom made clubs. So I just had my old irons regripped and I am happily playing with them, shooting my normal score around 90.

 

[kwright396]

Titleist T300 Irons

Sorry that your Titleist T300 irons aren't a good fit for your husband. Like Midpack, I am surprised of the T300 choice for a 5-7 handicap player. I would have thought the T100, T100S or T200 were the better fit. This spring I purchased Titleist T300 (4-PW) irons with regular flex but graphite shafts (Mitsubishi Tensei AV Blue 70HY) and am very happy with my purchase. I am 65 years old so wanted graphite shafts. Not only am I longer with these clubs, but they're very forgiving. My handicap has dropped from 19 to 15, and if I could putt better would go down further. I couldn't be happier with my T300 clubs and for me, money well spent.

 

[RetiredHappy]

Are you saying the shafts you ended up with weren't the same shafts that were used during the fitting? That seems very odd and kind of defeats the purpose of the fitting.

We both don't know if they are or not. I was busy with my own fitting while he was being fitted. I told him that CC guy probably ordered senior shafts for him. He is 73 and still uses regular shafts and hits off from the whiite tees. White tees here are usually used by younger folks. At his age, he is allowed to use purely Gold tees but he refuses to as he wants to keep teeing off from the white tees as long as he continues to get the distance. He does not use White/Gold combo either.

I will report back tomorrow.

 

[RetiredHappy]

Sorry that your Titleist T300 irons aren't a good fit for your husband. Like Midpack, I am surprised of the T300 choice for a 5-7 handicap player. I would have thought the T100, T100S or T200 were the better fit. This spring I purchased Titleist T300 (4-PW) irons with regular flex but graphite shafts (Mitsubishi Tensei AV Blue 70HY) and am very happy with my purchase. I am 65 years old so wanted graphite shafts. Not only am I longer with these clubs, but they're very forgiving. My handicap has dropped from 19 to 15, and if I could putt better would go down further. I couldn't be happier with my T300 clubs and for me, money well spent.

T300 "choice" was made by the CC fitter and had my husband hit the clubs and the fitter knew my husband's handicap. Trackman showed that they were longer than his Cleveland Launcher irons. The new clubs with goodness knows what sort of shafts they are are much shorter than his old clubs.

 

[Midpack]

We both don't know if they are or not. I was busy with my own fitting while he was being fitted. I told him that CC guy probably ordered senior shafts for him. He is 73 and still uses regular shafts and hits off from the whiite tees. White tees here are usually used by younger folks. At his age, he is allowed to use purely Gold tees but he refuses to as he wants to keep teeing off from the white tees as long as he continues to get the distance. He does not use White/Gold combo either.

I will report back tomorrow.

From what I can tell on the Accra site, the 50i is a very light (50g) shaft, definitely targeting seniors. The flex spec said “variable” and further reading said the flex could be altered by the club maker using weights - that’s new to me? But regardless a 50g iron shaft is very light. I’m 67 yo old and my irons have 95g shafts. Younger males would probably use 110-125g iron shafts. Best of luck with CC, surely they didn’t put different shafts in than the ones you used at your fitting - that would be a major issue.

 

[RetiredHappy]

Here's the update. The first thing that my husband told the fitter was that the Accra shafts felt floppy, unlike his other clubs and they were 10 yards shorter for each club. The fitter, whom I almost punched in the face but I refrained, said "People who hit their clubs well don't come to club fitting. You must not have been hitting your clubs well and hence you were here to buy new clubs. The new clubs are better otherwise you would not have bought them." WOW. I was surprised my husband did not go ballistic on that guy because his fuse is generally very short.

Anyway, I asked the fitter directly whether they were senior flex shafts. He said they were "in-between standard and senior" and were the right shafts for my husband based on his swing speed. He also indicated that the shafts which my husband used during fitting were not the same shafts that were ordered. What!?

Trackman results - my husband's old Cleveland Launchers were longer and straighter than those custom fitted T300s. The stupid fitter said, "I am glad, because now I have data that I can use to justify changes to the shafts on these T300s when I get back to our corporate." The fitter had my husband try 2 different shafts, both were hitting longer than the Accra's. In the end, my husband settled on Fujikura Vista Pro 60 shafts (standard flex), with each of them half inch longer than standard. The fitter said it would take 2 weeks to get the new shafts and he would be replacing them in the office as opposed to shipping the clubs back to Club Champion in Chicago to have the factory change out the shafts.

BTW, his fitter is the manager/senior guy at this office as well. My husband and I agreed that we will never go get club fitted again. It was an utter waste of time and money, not to mention the angst.

 

[zinger1457]

If it were me I would send a letter to Club Champion corporate explaining your experience. That is not at all how a club fitting should work and not how Club Champion advertises their service. Sounds like a big part of the problem was with the fitter you used, I've talked with others who have used Club Champion and they were happy with the service. Can understand why you would be upset.

 

[RetiredHappy]

If it were me I would send a letter to Club Champion corporate explaining your experience. That is not at all how a club fitting should work and not how Club Champion advertises their service. Sounds like a big part of the problem was with the fitter you used, I've talked with others who have used Club Champion and they were happy with the service. Can understand why you would be upset.

Don't want to complain until his shafts are changed out and his clubs back in his hands.

 

[frayne]

Wow, just thinking what I have missed by buying clubs right off the rack for the last fifty years !

 

[f35phixer]

Well, I just got my successful application for OPEN Championship tickets for July 10-17 2022 at St Andrews.... I had applied for practice rounds July 10-13, 300 GBP for four days, 2 people. Whole point was to see the course and watch players practice, I enjoy that more then competition rounds.

Anyone else get a successful email?

Going to put this in BTD thread too, Went and looked at hotels that ~500 GBP / day..
Got great perk of flying standby for CHEAP....

I'm a BIG DUMMY !!!! We leave for Alaska cruise July 11, oh well.

R and A was kind enough to refund 300GBP

 

[jollystomper]

Wow, just thinking what I have missed by buying clubs right off the rack for the last fifty years !

+1

I came within a phone call of going for a club fitting earlier this year... instead, since I had a starter set of clubs, decided to first buy better clubs. It was worth it for me to put the money into better clubs first.

 

[harllee]

I'm a BIG DUMMY !!!! We leave for Alaska cruise July 11, oh well.

R and A was kind enough to refund 300GBP

I would love to see the Open at St Andrews. I have played the Old Course 3 times, what a thrill.

 

[aja8888]

Wow, just thinking what I have missed by buying clubs right off the rack for the last fifty years !

Same here. I just re-gripped my Wilson irons for about the 4th time. Changed shafts about 10 years ago. And I picked up a used Ping driver from a neighbor for $25.00 this summer as my Ram woods are delaminating.

Since I'm getting older, I have switched to lower compression balls.

Everything is going to hell....but still playing each week.

 

[Huston55]

Just completed a golf odyssey. Played 333 holes in 30 days. Played Kiawah Island, SC; Copper Valley, CA; St George, UT & Las Vegas, NV. Played with old friends and had an absolute blast! Pleased to say that my body held up well. Although, it was mostly cart (versus walking) rounds.

 

[RetiredHappy]

Just completed a golf odyssey. Played 333 holes in 30 days. Played Kiawah Island, SC; Copper Valley, CA; St George, UT & Las Vegas, NV. Played with old friends and had an absolute blast! Pleased to say that my body held up well. Although, it was mostly cart (versus walking) rounds.

Pretty good, considering it includes travel. We play 4 to 5 times per week, every week and comparable to the number of holes which you played. Which Las Vegas course did you play?

 

[Huston55]

Pretty good, considering it includes travel. We play 4 to 5 times per week, every week and comparable to the number of holes which you played. Which Las Vegas course did you play?

Played Bali Hai & Reflection Bay in Vegas, Coyote Springs near Mesquite, and Sand Hollow, Copper Rock & Ledges in St George.

 

[garyt]

Played Bali Hai & Reflection Bay in Vegas, Coyote Springs near Mesquite, and Sand Hollow, Copper Rock & Ledges in St George.

Great courses. How did you like Reflection Bay? I'm playing it and Bali Hai this November. Coyote Springs is a great course in the middle of nowhere.
Sand Hollow is as scenic a course as you'll ever find, imo along with Wolf Creek but I'm partial to mountain/desert golf.

 

[Van-Guard23]

Long time "lurker" but infrequent poster. Been playing my home course here in Central TX 2-3 times a week for the past 2.5 years (handicap between 13 and 14) and have been inconsistent with my game. The past 5 rounds were 83, 89, 77, 89, 84 and 91 (very windy conditions)...I feel like what gets me in trouble is my long back swing. When I take practice swings, I can generally keep a short back swing but when I am hitting the ball, I cannot seem to shorten my back swing even if my life depended on it... leading to inconsistent contact. I'm willing to sacrifice distance for more consistency. Does anyone know of an effective drill to address a long back swing? Oh yeah, I know John Daly has a notoriously long back swing himself...but I'm no John Daly.

 

[Big_Hitter]

Long time "lurker" but infrequent poster. Been playing my home course here in Central TX 2-3 times a week for the past 2.5 years (handicap between 13 and 14) and have been inconsistent with my game. The past 5 rounds were 83, 89, 77, 89, 84 and 91 (very windy conditions)...I feel like what gets me in trouble is my long back swing. When I take practice swings, I can generally keep a short back swing but when I am hitting the ball, I cannot seem to shorten my back swing even if my life depended on it... leading to inconsistent contact. I'm willing to sacrifice distance for more consistency. Does anyone know of an effective drill to address a long back swing? Oh yeah, I know John Daly has a notoriously long back swing himself...but I'm no John Daly.

Try and groove this on the range. You will be able to crush it with just a weight shift. Swing changes take time.

https://youtu.be/pcGWZJf9oxw

 

[Van-Guard23]

Try and groove this on the range. You will be able to crush it with just a weight shift. Swing changes will take time.

https://youtu.be/pcGWZJf9oxw

Thanks...will try this out on the range