Hybrid Water Heater

REWahoo

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The only thread I could find on this subject is 10 years old, so...

Our electric water heater turns ten this month. It has worked flawlessly and still does, but since I've never had a water heater last this long (got 4 years and 7 years out of the previous two) I'm thinking about being proactive and replacing it. Home Depot has the Rheem 50 gal hybrid model on sale and I'm interested in what experience any of you have with hybrid (heat pump) water heaters.

Worth the added cost? Any advice?

EDIT: No gas service available in our area so have to stick with electric.
 
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Around here new code is, if over 50 gallons, unit must have heat exchanger on top. A heat pump. Mucho pesos. And more stuff to break. If my 80 gal, unit dies will go with the size below needing heat pump.
 
I have no input except I would ask what failed on your previous water heaters? I would expect those same parts of a basic electric water heater would still be in the hybrid and could be prone to the same short life expectancy, unless there is a major design and material change. Then there is the added parts and complexity to consider.
 
Is the water heater located where it is pulling heat from outside air? If it is in a conditioned space, it is not collecting "free" heat.
 
Around here new code is, if over 50 gallons, unit must have heat exchanger on top. A heat pump. Mucho pesos. And more stuff to break. If my 80 gal, unit dies will go with the size below needing heat pump.

Can you simply get two 40 gal ones and hook them up in parallel ?
 
Our electric water heater turns ten this month. It has worked flawlessly and still does, but since I've never had a water heater last this long (got 4 years and 7 years out of the previous two) I'm thinking about being proactive and replacing it. Home Depot has the Rheem 50 gal hybrid model on sale and I'm interested in what experience any of you have with hybrid (heat pump) water heaters.

I don't own a heat pump water heater, but our own water heater is over 15 years old now, so I have done a lot of research on these to prepare for replacement.

1. They generally use less energy to operate than a standard electric heater, as the heat pump only "moves" heat and does not create it (unless you switch to the electric backup elements). Depending on your usage patterns and electric rates this may save you a lot of money.

2. They are considerably more expensive and have moving parts (fans). Fans mean more noise, and more parts means a higher chance of something failing in the future. Then again, it's basically the same as a refrigerator or air conditioner.

3. The recovery time will be slower if you only use the heat pump mode. This may not be an issue if there's only one or two people in the house. Or, you can opt for the traditional elements to kick in if you need faster recovery, but then you lose the advantage of energy savings.

4. Since the heat pump "moves" heat, it has to be in an area with enough space to extract the heat from. In our case, our hot water heater is in a small 6'x8 laundry room that would not provide enough warm air to transfer into the water. I could add intake and exit vents in the room to improve this, but it's not something I want to do. If yours is in a basement or garage this may not be a problem.

5. Heat pump water heaters are generally taller. In our case, our water heater is located in an alcove with limited headroom. It would be difficult to install a heat pump water heater there without significant modifications to the space and plumbing.

We currently have an 80 gallon water heater, but thanks to new insulation requirements on newer tanks a new 80 gallon tank will no longer fit the space. I will probably opt for a standard 50-55 gallon tank when the time comes to replace it. That should be plenty for dishes, laundry, and showers now that there's only two of us. However, we are concerned that may not provide enough hot water to fill our master bath tub. Short of making major modifications, we don't have a lot of options.
 
I installed one last year and after replacing the defective control panel have been thrilled. I rent out my home when not using it and tenants use a lot of hot water. I am seeing about 40% savings in electricity and in the summer it keeps my basement cool and dryer and avoids running the dehumidifiers I always needed.

This is not solar but hybrid water heaters use a heat pump system to extract heat from the air like a new inverter split Heating and Cooling unit which are considered high efficiency. That I can Contol it remotely from my phone is an added benefit. If I go away and have no tenants I can shut it down and turn it back on, change the temp and even see KWH used. It still offers old fashioned resistance coil heat if needs be too.

Pricey. you bet! But should pay for itself in about 1.5 years based on expected usage and high electric rates. Supposedly more cost effective than gas but the added cost of installing an exhaust and getting a bigger propane supply made it a no brainer.
 
I installed one last year and after replacing the defective control panel have been thrilled. I rent out my home when not using it and tenants use a lot of hot water. I am seeing about 40% savings in electricity and in the summer it keeps my basement cool and dryer and avoids running the dehumidifiers I always needed.

This is not solar but hybrid water heaters use a heat pump system to extract heat from the air like a new inverter split Heating and Cooling unit which are considered high efficiency. That I can Contol it remotely from my phone is an added benefit. If I go away and have no tenants I can shut it down and turn it back on, change the temp and even see KWH used. It still offers old fashioned resistance coil heat if needs be too.

Pricey. you bet! But should pay for itself in about 1.5 years based on expected usage and high electric rates. Supposedly more cost effective than gas but the added cost of installing an exhaust and getting a bigger propane supply made it a no brainer.

Wouldn't have thought of the summer dehumidifying/cooling benefits of an interior mounted heat exchanger for the WH. Begs the question though - what about wintertime use? do you heat interior air just to cycle it into the hot water? Or is your heat exchanger in outside air like a normal mini-split?
 
Can you simply get two 40 gal ones and hook them up in parallel ?
Yes.
Space is a bit of a problem. Plus just for one person, 80 gal. water heater is an overkill. Previous owners had two daughters :D If I had natural gas available would switch to tankless.
 
I've read of solar hybrid water heaters, using solar to preheat water in a water tank that is connected to a water heater.
I considered using the 50 gal electric heater as a pre heater until the plumber reminded me that maintaining warm water is a good way to grow algae, etc. I decided to just use the 50 gal unit as is. It works. It is a Rheem with upper and lower heating coils.
 
Thanks for the input on the hybrid water heater. After getting a preliminary estimate of $3,300 plus the cost of adding vents to the utility closet, I'm going to pass. At our $0.088/kWh rate for electricity the payback isn't compelling.
 
Wouldn't have thought of the summer dehumidifying/cooling benefits of an interior mounted heat exchanger for the WH. Begs the question though - what about wintertime use? do you heat interior air just to cycle it into the hot water? Or is your heat exchanger in outside air like a normal mini-split?

Hot water heater is in the basement which pretty much maintains 55 or above all winter and has the furnace so no supplemental heat is required
 
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Our electric water heater turns ten this month. It has worked flawlessly and still does, but since I've never had a water heater last this long (got 4 years and 7 years out of the previous two) I'm thinking about being proactive and replacing it.

I just finished a self-education course on water heaters after our last one expired at just over six years, a few months after the warranty expired, at an installed cost of $1,200. That got my attention because the one before that lasted ten years, and water heaters where we used to live routinely lasted 20+ years with no attention whatsoever. What changed?

Turns out that what changed is the water where we now live in WV and where we used to live in MD near Washington, D.C. The water here is much harder (more dissolved minerals) and because of that we also run a water softener, which essentially substitutes salt for the dissolved minerals, which in turn makes the water more corrosive.

Enter the anode rod. All water heaters have them, except those really expensive ones with plastic tanks. What the anode rod does is sacrifice itself to the cathode, which is the steel of the water tank, similar to the zincs in a boat. Depending on the chemistry of your local water supply the anode may need to be replaced as often as once a year, or never, most are somewhere in between. The plumber here said check it after two years. It's cheap maintenance item, the one I bought at Home Depot a couple months ago was $14 & change for a 42" aluminum one. Magnesium ones can also be used if the aluminum one causes a "rotten egg" sulfur smell but they cost twice as much. I doubt $30 is going to bust anyone's budget though.

There are two main hurdles to doing the change yourself. One is that the factories use trained gorillas to install the original ones to make sure they won't leak. This also makes them hard to remove so you'll need either an impact wrench or a cheater bar to lengthen your breaker bar to loosen it. If you use a cheater bar you may need someone to hold the tank still so as not to rotate it and damage the connecting pipes. If one of your friends is a gorilla invite him over for a beer.

The other hurdle is overhead space. Here, the water heater is in an unfinished part of the basement and I have 45" of headroom over the tank to work with so that's not an issue. If yours is in tighter quarters you may have to remove the rod in sections, cutting the old one with a hacksaw as you go, or just bend it (you're not putting it back so that won't matter) or even disconnect everything so you can tilt the heater to one side. To get the new one in they make them in sections connected by links so they'll bend. Sort of like aluminum sausage links. Search for "segmented anode rod".

BTW, it seems the "standard" socket size for the anode rod is 1 1/16. Don't hold me to that though. There are a bunch of "how-to" videos on youtube on how to change the anode rod, I'm figuring 30 to 45 minutes on doing it. To save $1,200 every six years that's worth doing.

Oh, and one other thing I learned. Some much more expensive water heaters have special "extended life" characteristics and are warranted for twelve years instead of only six years like normal water heaters. What that means is that they have two anode rods instead of only one.:angel:
 
We looked into these new efficient heat pump water heaters. To us the big downside was the cycle time. They take a lot longer to recover than conventional tank water heaters.

We went tankless - there is no cycle time with them.

They save a little energy too, but not dollars, as they are more expensive and need more regular maintenance. Still, if you can afford it, they are great.
 
We went tankless - there is no cycle time with them.

I would have preferred tankless when we built our house. We've used them in rentals and really liked them. Unfortunately, we don't have gas and an electric tankless would have required a massive electrical service.

Heat pump water heaters weren't an option at the time, but they won't fit in the alcove our tank is located anyway.

In the end, a traditional electric tank was our best option.
 
Can't help with specific question (water heaters) but have found that older appliances (water heaters, furnaces, stoves, fridge, washer, dryer, dish waster, etc.) last MUCH longer than anything currently offered. TRUE enough that todays appliances have at least the 'promise' of higher efficiency (not always realized in MY opinion) but you can pay for a LOT of electricity or gas for the price of replacing a still-functioning appliance. Just my $.02 worth as YMMV.
 
Our electric water heater turns ten this month. It has worked flawlessly and still does, but since I've never had a water heater last this long (got 4 years and 7 years out of the previous two) I'm thinking about being proactive and replacing it.

I must be the luckiest homeowner on the planet with respect to water heaters. My first house had the original WH when I bought it(7yrs old) and I lived there 12 years and never replaced it. A house I inherited from an aunt had a WH at least 20 years old and i got 7 years out of it before replacing. My current house is 15 years old and still has the original. All gas so maybe that is the difference.
 
I must be the luckiest homeowner on the planet with respect to water heaters. My first house had the original WH when I bought it(7yrs old) and I lived there 12 years and never replaced it. A house I inherited from an aunt had a WH at least 20 years old and i got 7 years out of it before replacing. My current house is 15 years old and still has the original. All gas so maybe that is the difference.

I don't think it is gas vs electric, it's your soft MS water vs my hard central TX water (AKA liquid rock).

Our well water is extremely hard as the source is a limestone aquifer. Even after passing through a softener the water still has enough dissolved limestone to leave deposits of calcium inside the water tank, which reduces efficiency and eventually causes the tank to leak.
 
I don't think it is gas vs electric, it's your soft MS water vs my hard central TX water (AKA liquid rock).

Our well water is extremely hard as the source is a limestone aquifer. Even after passing through a softener the water still has enough dissolved limestone to leave deposits of calcium inside the water tank, which reduces efficiency and eventually causes the tank to leak.

Ahh.....another reason not to move to TX?;)
 
The original gas water heater in our house lasted 27 years, at which time I replaced it simply on general principals. It had not failed (yet). We have hard well water and use a water softener (salt). That heater had no sacrificial anode, NONE. I don't know what the secret is. I don't expect the replacement to last that long. I installed a powered anode to control the Sulphur smell from iron bacteria growth. Time will tell.
 
I don't think it is gas vs electric, it's your soft MS water vs my hard central TX water (AKA liquid rock).

Our well water is extremely hard as the source is a limestone aquifer. Even after passing through a softener the water still has enough dissolved limestone to leave deposits of calcium inside the water tank, which reduces efficiency and eventually causes the tank to leak.

Do you drain your water heater at least once a year?

I don't know if this is the only reason for getting 23 years out of ours but it didn't hurt. We are replacing ours this week just because it is so old.
 
We looked into these new efficient heat pump water heaters. To us the big downside was the cycle time. They take a lot longer to recover than conventional tank water heaters.

We went tankless - there is no cycle time with them.

They save a little energy too, but not dollars, as they are more expensive and need more regular maintenance. Still, if you can afford it, they are great.
Most hybrids give you the option of only using heat pump or also adding resistance heat. So you can choose how efficient or quick it needs to be. I went with the big one which is 120 gallons available in first hour basically. Never had a an issue
 
Do you drain your water heater at least once a year?

I don't know if this is the only reason for getting 23 years out of ours but it didn't hurt. We are replacing ours this week just because it is so old.

No, I don’t. No doubt your meticulous maintenance magnifies your monetary maximization. :)
 
No, I don’t. No doubt your meticulous maintenance magnifies your monetary maximization. :)

I drained ours maybe 2-3 times total. And I don't even think I did it right, I think the recc a full drain, not just drain a gallon or two to get some sediment out.

That was the original WH in the house, 1986. I just replaced it ~ 3 years ago, and it was still working fine. We are on hard well water and softener, and the anode rod must have been worn through decades ago. Like others report, it was in so tight that I decided not to try to replace it, fearing I'd break something (like my arm!).

-ERD50
 
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