Leaving behind a spouse who is not an investor?

[doneat54]

Same here, DW is bright but not interested and trust me to manage finances totally. She, however, does manage the checkbook, bills and does our taxes. I am grateful for that. I have a massive spreadsheet with all the info, balances, account numbers, and now our financial guy's suggested plan (no, he doesn't/did get a percentage of anything) should I get hit by a bus at least there is a record of how it is supposed to work.

As for the thought of her managing all the house stuff I do should I be quenched. Oh dear God.... I can't even imagine....

 

[jollystomper]

DW is interested but just finds financial concepts difficult. It would be like me trying to learn another spoken language, whereas she is fluent in several. So simplification is key.

However, my belief is that she would be more danger financially from folks wanting her to make changes, rather than just letting things continuing to ride as they are. So I have documented WARNINGS about "no matter what, these are financials actions you DO NOT need to take, so do not listen to those you pressure you to" (e.g. getting an annuity since she will have my survivors pension).

 

[Big_Hitter]

So what are your plans? Are they well understood by your spouse?

Structured settlement in LI policy, joint annuity after death.

I would set up annuities for her if I were you. YMMV

 

[MooreBonds]

Many of the responses thus far depict the spouse as being very bright but uninterested. Could be that the spouse is uninterested because it is already being taken care of.

Your theory could very well be possible in some cases...but given how many people use financial salespeople by default, I'd say it's probably more of them saying it because they either lack the aptitude for understanding financial investing, or simply don't even want to try (just like the number of people that refuse to even want to try doing their own taxes, even though their taxes could be as simple as W2 wages, standard deduction, and that's it....and instead pay a tax preparer to do one of the simplest things around)

 

[travelover]

Your theory could very well be possible in some cases...but given how many people use financial salespeople by default, I'd say it's probably more of them saying it because they either lack the aptitude for understanding financial investing, or simply don't even want to try (just like the number of people that refuse to even want to try doing their own taxes, even though their taxes could be as simple as W2 wages, standard deduction, and that's it....and instead pay a tax preparer to do one of the simplest things around)

Yea, I'd agree. My DW definitely fits this description. She is smart enough, but definitely wants nothing to do with investing decisions.

My "when I'm dead" letter to her says put it all in Wellesley and if you still are uncomfortable, hire a Vanguard advisor for 0.3%

 

[brett]

Did the same thing. Consolidated. Plus, moved everything to a wealth management firm.

They are doing better for us, net of fees, than I was. Plus, I do not have to worry about it and DW is in fine form should I get hit by a bus.

 

[pb4uski]

Similar story here. DW is smart enough but lacks interest and background.

I have an investment policy statement explaining the strategy. I concede that because investing is something I am interested in that our strategy is more complicated than it needs to be. I slice & dice a bit more than what is really necessary and try to wring the last dime out of tax-efficiency... it's a fun game for me.

If I have the luxury of time (know the end is coming) then I can easily simplify our investments prior to my passing. If I get hit by a beer truck, then between the investment policy document on my laptop, Quicken records, a file of quarterly statements for all our financial accounts, and Vanguard and DD's help (DD is a CPA and interested in such stuff) I think DW will be fine.

 

[fritz]

Many of the responses thus far depict the spouse as being very bright but uninterested. Could be that the spouse is uninterested because it is already being taken care of....

Your theory could very well be possible in some cases...but given how many people use financial salespeople by default, I'd say it's probably more of them saying it because they either lack the aptitude for understanding financial investing, or simply don't even want to try (just like the number of people that refuse to even want to try doing their own taxes, even though their taxes could be as simple as W2 wages, standard deduction, and that's it....and instead pay a tax preparer to do one of the simplest things around)

Yea, I'd agree. My DW definitely fits this description. She is smart enough, but definitely wants nothing to do with investing decisions.

My "when I'm dead" letter to her says put it all in Wellesley and if you still are uncomfortable, hire a Vanguard advisor for 0.3%

I have posted to similar threads about this subject in the past. My wife is also not interested in managing our investments, and don't see that changing - even when I'm no longer around. We retired 7 years ago at 58/57 and live off investments and SS (unfortunately, no pensions and don't care for annuities). Our strategy has been tweaked very little over the years as certain things have changed (addition of SS income etc.), but the basics from 7 years ago are still in place.

In my original efforts to plan out my "when I'm gone" instructions - it also became a "when I'm not capable of handling our investments" instructions. I imagine that when that time comes, I might not be the first one to realize it. We came to an agreement that when one of us passes - the survivor will share our financials with both of our daughters. This works especially well for DW as both daughters are more computer literate than she is and handle their own family finances. We'll also bring them both in when we are older and we've determined that we're better off with them taking over. My goal with "what to do when I'm gone" was to keep it simple and as short as possible. Runs a couple of pages and very straightforward.

I decided that it was better to simplify our investments at the start of retirement with the goal of set it up and leave it alone. Never know when you'll exit and I felt that would be the wrong time to leave it to DW and daughters to make these important changes. I settled on Wellington and Wellesley as our two main workhorses for retirement income. No rebalancing necessary and run a 52/48 stock/bond ratio overall (60% Wel/40% Wels). This investment strategy allows DW (us) to pretty much leave everything as originally set up until she (we) no longer need it. Daughters invest with Vanguard (own Wellington as well), so very familiar with how VG works. All other VG investments will be moved to Wel/Wels when the time comes. DW knows of VG's Personal Advisor Service, but I've told her that they favor index funds - and I like Wel/Wels and why (and to leave them alone). We are Flagship, but I don't know our current assigned representative (have had three so far that I didn't know). Told her to talk to him if/when necessary.

Was a real relief to get this all set up, and very pleased to see that it's working as intended from the get-go.

 

[Danmar]

Watching this play out in real time with my Father-in-law. Terminal cancer, month or two to go but still pretty lucid. My DW and I are getting our arms around his financial affairs which are rather complicated. Mid 7 figure portfolio in about 20 div paying names and GIC's split between 3 brokerage accounts, both names, and 3 banks.plus several pensions/annuities. Full service advisor plus some DIY. This would have been impossible for my Mother in law to manage. First step is to create joint accounts so assets move to MIL without probate on his death. Then move all investments to self directed accounts that my DW and I will manage for her.

He has hundreds of poorly designed spreadsheets which are of little use. Luckily for my MIL both my DW and I are CPA's with extensive investing knowledge and experience.

Our financial decisions are split between my DW and I but I do most of the investing. Key is simplicity. All at one bank and its DIY broker. Everything shows on one page when we log into the accounts. All accounts are joint with right of survivorship but accounts are distinct and separate. I have to think that many, perhaps most of our spouses could carry on, if things are fairly simple. Discussing decisions and where things are etc, would certainly help. If you had a real concern you could consider bringing a child in to help? My daughter married a CPA so hopefully he can help when/if needed.

 

[2017ish]

Many of the responses thus far depict the spouse as being very bright but uninterested. Could be that the spouse is uninterested because it is already being taken care of.

....

This is definitely true for us. Since she finished training, DW has always made most of our money, and has always been among the (if not the) most financially focused owners of her groups (even when not serving on the board). She is comfortable with, and capable of digging deep into, financial statements. But, no interest in the details of our personal finances to speak of.

I'll keep trying to spark interest, but at least I have little doubt that she'll do fine when I'm gone or incapable--especially with Sons' help and my death book.

 

[happy2bretired]

Did the same thing. Consolidated. Plus, moved everything to a wealth management firm.



They are doing better for us, net of fees, than I was. Plus, I do not have to worry about it and DW is in fine form should I get hit by a bus.

Exactly what my husband did for me. He started the move to wealth management just two months before he was diagnosed and died.

I'm so thankful that my husband did this. I've often wondered if he knew he was sick and if he was planning ahead for me.

 

[NW-Bound]

Watching this play out in real time with my Father-in-law. Terminal cancer, month or two to go but still pretty lucid. My DW and I are getting our arms around his financial affairs which are rather complicated. Mid 7 figure portfolio in about 20 div paying names and GIC's split between 3 brokerage accounts, both names, and 3 banks.plus several pensions/annuities. Full service advisor plus some DIY. This would have been impossible for my Mother in law to manage. First step is to create joint accounts so assets move to MIL without probate on his death. Then move all investments to self directed accounts that my DW and I will manage for her.

He has hundreds of poorly designed spreadsheets which are of little use. Luckily for my MIL both my DW and I are CPA's with extensive investing knowledge and experience...

I have tried to put every account into Quicken, so if my wife remembers the password into Quicken, she will see everything there. There are 24 accounts of his and her brokerage, IRA, Roth, 401k, etc...

Then, I also have a list of the same, but with more details of account number, address/phone to contact, etc... This is more important for my children, in case something happens to both of us simultaneously.

 

[Choices]

We share responsibility but are concerned when/if we both have cognitive decline, wonder if we will realize it as it happens....My daughter's husband is the likely go to guy but what if he is old? I am hoping my 2 yo DGS will be a math genius. Or maybe his soon-to-come little sister.
In the meantime, a "death book " of sorts, monthly reports with spreadsheets and pie charts keep us up to date. In the countdown to DH's retirement we have begun to simplify and consolidate. Our daughter is still closing out her dad's estate and we cannot leave her with another mess, so she knows how to find out where our stuff is and the password key.

 

[Lsbcal]

There has been some mention of loss of the main investment partner's cognitive abilities. I imagine this generally happens slowly in most cases.

My investment process is fairly complicated but fairly easy to implement and involves maintaining a multi-page spreadsheet monthly. I do benchmark against simpler schemes. Should my cognitive abilities start to go, I imagine the benchmarking would reveal that. Or maybe we will do so well that there is more of a desire to simplify this even further. Like an indexed or Wellington/Wellesley type portfolio. Plenty of time for this as we age.

 

[NW-Bound]

One hopes he still remembers what benchmarking or indexing means.

 

[growing_older]

Actually, my interest in presiding over a complex network of investments is waning. I'm gradually moving to a much simpler organization with a few index funds and a small number of accounts for my own benefit. It will pretty much run itself with minimal intervention (do a tax return annually) and I'm leaving a letter strongly suggesting that continuing to do nothing will be in the best interests of everyone involved.

 

[Lsbcal]

One hopes he still remembers what benchmarking or indexing means.

When I cannot deal with my Windows 31 computer (or whatever I have), I'll know it's time to go a lot simpler.

 

[NW-Bound]

I have been forgetting a lot more things. But I think my reasoning is still OK. Recently, I even offer some help to my son's homework problem for his MS degree. And he's an ME while I am an EE.

I have been saying that the CPU is still good, but the RAM is shrinking. Using that analogy, if the RAM content gets scrambled, the CPU gonna crash.

 

[braumeister]

But I think my reasoning is still OK.

Well, you would, wouldn't you?

 

[kcowan]

First step is to create joint accounts so assets move to MIL without probate on his death. Then move all investments to self directed accounts that my DW and I will manage for her...

Make all the target accounts JTWROS with DW. Get it all done right!

(I don't envy the work. I had to do a little of that with Bro. Nothing like what you are facing!)

 

[NW-Bound]

Well, you would, wouldn't you?

Well, my son's homework got good grade.

 

[Danmar]

Make all the target accounts JTWROS with DW. Get it all done right!

(I don't envy the work. I had to do a little of that with Bro. Nothing like what you are facing!)

That's the plan. BMO Nesbit wouldn't do the brokerage accounts JTWROS with DW. Took months to get it done for the in laws. Once he is gone will finish the job. TDDI did it right away. Will move everything to TD ASAP.

 

[Danmar]

I have tried to put every account into Quicken, so if my wife remembers the password into Quicken, she will see everything there. There are 24 accounts of his and her brokerage, IRA, Roth, 401k, etc...

Then, I also have a list of the same, but with more details of account number, address/phone to contact, etc... This is more important for my children, in case something happens to both of us simultaneously.

Sounds like you have good documentation. Our affairs are even simpler. One tax advantaged investment account each, one checking account, one savings account, one main investing account. All at one bank and all show on one page when log in.

 

[NW-Bound]

I do not have as much as you have, and certainly could have consolidated, even if I like to have some diversity and do not want to put all in a basket. A problem is moving/closing accounts costs money and is never as smooth as it should be. Perhaps the institution losing the account dragged its feet, but last time it took more than 1 month.

Anyway, I will spend up the money in the smaller accounts first. That will take care of it.

 

[Koolau]

DW shows virtually no interest in finances as long as we have "enough." She does occasionally read something which frightens her and wants to act on it. Once in a while, I can't talk her out of it. For instance, last year, she wanted out of the stock market (forget why). She dumped her pssst, Wellsley (and Wellington) for a cash position which she has not repositioned. I actually applauded her for doing "something", even though I thought it was wrong. I have guided virtually all of her other financial moves (e.g., converting ALL of her IRAs to Roths so she need not worry about RMDs - "Physician, heal thyself." - I have one more to do by year's end to reach the same state, though my 401(k) is too large to even consider conversion.)

SO, my plan for DW surviving me is

1) Her meager SS on her own earnings (or her half of my at-70 SS) will get bumped to MY SS amount. It's not the very highest possible but doesn't miss it too far.
2) She will receive 1/4 of my pension - not huge but might cover her housing costs (HOA, internal maintenance, utilities.)
3) She inherits my 401(k) and IRAs. I try to manage them for stability over growth. For instance, the biggest piece of the 401(k) is a Stable Value fund. Not very lucrative, but it's only worry is significant inflation. She WILL have to deal with the one RMD generated by my 401(k). I think she can handle it.
4) She is happy with her own investments though I hope to steer her to a bit more aggressive positions. If not, they still add a significant amount to my inheritance to her.
5) $200K life insurance - left over from when I was young(er) and stupid(er)
6) Community property and misc. "investments" like PMs and collectables, etc.
7) Paid off condo in paradise, no debt other than monthly CC usage.

Realistically, I've taken the path of leaving MORE than adequate resources and hoping that inflation does not become a major issue. With that in mind, a country girl can survive. YMMV