*Not* taking statins

[I was misinformed]

After getting a surprisingly low calcium score, my PCP agreed that I did not need to take statins.

My cardiologist highly recommends calcium scores for folks at and
past their late 50s and is rather peeved that they are not more universally
adopted. My (possibly incorrect) understanding is that for younger folks a high
calcium score would be very concerning, but a low score may not be as
reassuring as it is for the 55+ crowd (the idea being that it can take
decades for arterial deposits to be calcified...).

 

[Dash man]

Does he measure your inflammation? For example, does he look at hs-CRP? (high-sensitivity C-reactive protein)

Doesn’t sound familiar.

 

[Amethyst]

I've found that ER and Urgent Care docs recommend medications based on exactly what they see in front of them, but instruct you to check with your regular physician.

I do not think they want you to just rely on your emergency work-up, good as it may be. So, seeing your doctor is the correct next step.

Good luck!

And aggravated that the ER jumped right to 20 mg of Crestor. Talking to my doctor tomorrow and hoping that at the very least that can be cut back to 10.

 

[audreyh1]

What's really weird is that they have actually stopped having that be the standard. But I will most definitely fast on the retest!

The reason for the fasting time is that after a meal, fats appear in the blood as triglycerides right away, and I think there are other things that generate triglycerides at various times after, and finally things settle down to get a reading that wasn’t impacted by a recent meal.

 

[googily]

The reason for the fasting time is that after a meal, fats appear in the blood as triglycerides right away, and I think there are other things that generate triglycerides at various times after, and finally things settle down to get a reading that wasn’t impacted by a recent meal.

No, I totally concur with the fasting time--it's just that now the "experts" are saying that it doesn't matter if you are fasted or not when you get your triglycerides checked. I disapprove of this change! [emoji16]

 

[audreyh1]

Fortunately my docs all still do the general blood tests first thing in the morning after an overnight fast.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

My triglycerides were very high in my early 30's, and my wife ran my blood numbers past the pathologist she worked for at a hospital.

He quickly said "he's diabetic." And I was and am diabetic. Other than starving myself, there's really not much I can do to get the triglycerides down to what most people think as normal.

This link came across my Facebook feed today and seemed interesting about diabetics placed on a macrobiotic diet: "But then, they were placed on this so-called Ma-Pi 2 diet, a strictly plant-based macrobiotic-style diet centered around whole grains, vegetables, and beans, with some sesame seeds and green tea. What happened? A1c levels started out with a wildly out-of-control diabetic 12.6, despite daily insulin injections, and after six months eating that diet, ended up averaging a non-diabetic 5.7. And, are you ready for this? That was after they all were able to eliminate their insulin.

They went from 100% on insulin with out-of-control diabetes to 0% on insulin averaging non-diabetic blood sugars. That’s the power of plants. And three-quarters were off all their diabetes medications completely—in just six months’ time. And what are the side effects? How about LDL-cholesterol dropping 20%, triglycerides dropping nearly 40%—though, of course, anyone starting a strictly plant-based diet must ensure a regular, reliable source of vitamin B12."

I don't have diabetes as far as as know, but my LDL cholesterol was a little high on my last blood tests. I'm going to try to eat more like this for awhile, though probably not 100% of the time, and retest my cholesterol in a few months and see what my numbers look like.

 

[street]

Fortunately my docs all still do the general blood tests first thing in the morning after an overnight fast.

That is how my instructions are also, a 12 fast at a minimum.

 

[RAE]

For the past five years my cholesterol levels have been going up. Each time my doctor would ask if I would like to start with taking a statin. I told him no. This year when my cholesterol level got above 260 I finally relented and went on the lowest dose of atorvastatin. My cholesterol level dropped 100 points within 3 months. That's a good thing, right?

Not necessarily. As Audrey said, after age 60, longevity actually improves in those with higher LDL-C. And LDL-C is just a very poor indicator for heart disease risk. 75% of patients hospitalized with a heart attack had cholesterol levels that would indicate they were NOT at risk for a heart attack. Here is an article about that: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090112130653.htm


Lots of people (and many doctors as well) still view heart disease as a "plumbing problem" - meaning that the arterial walls become clogged with plaque due to high cholesterol in the diet. But the real cause of most heart disease is chronic inflammation, which causes damage to the arterial walls and often to the heart itself. The plaque is there because the body is trying to heal the arterial wall from the damage caused by chronic inflammation. So, to reduce your risk for heart disease, change to a mostly whole foods diet - ditch the refined grain products, avoid all of the industrial seed oils, and avoid anything with added sugar. All of those things can lead to chronic inflammation. Here is a short article about inflammation and heart disease:
https://www.healthydirections.com/articles/heart-health/inflammation-and-heart-disease

 

[razztazz]

This link came across my Facebook feed today and seemed interesting about diabetics placed on a macrobiotic diet: "But then, they were placed on this so-called Ma-Pi 2 diet, a strictly plant-based macrobiotic-style diet centered around whole grains, vegetables, and beans, with some sesame seeds and green tea. What happened? A1c levels started out with a wildly out-of-control diabetic 12.6, despite daily insulin injections, and after six months eating that diet, ended up averaging a non-diabetic 5.7. And, are you ready for this? That was after they all were able to eliminate their insulin..

.......


I ate that way for 22 years. (sans the spurious ingredients sesame seeds, green tea etc) Practically turned me into a diabetic. Just eating a big plate of broccoli isn't going to neutralize all that grain. And "Whole grain" is 100% refined starch with a teaspoon of bran in it. If refined grain is bad then why eat it at all? Done the experiment many times. Has the same effect on blood sugar and Triglycericdes as plain old grains. There's a reproduceability crisis in science.

 

[RAE]

.......


I ate that way for 22 years. (sans the spurious ingredients sesame seeds, green tea etc) Practically turned me into a diabetic. Just eating a big plate of broccoli isn't going to neutralize all that grain. And "Whole grain" is 100% refined starch with a teaspoon of bran in it. If refined grain is bad then why eat it at all? Done the experiment many times. Has the same effect on blood sugar and Triglycericdes as plain old grains. There's a reproduceability crisis in science.

Agree - consuming grain products will almost always increase triglycerides and blood sugar. Once I cut back on bread and other grain-based products, my triglycerides dropped quickly. I used to make bread in the bread machine weekly some years ago, and I loved it (various types of bread, including whole grain/multi grain). But I had to give it up, and once I did, most of my blood markers improved quite a bit.

 

[RetiredHappy]

.......


I ate that way for 22 years. (sans the spurious ingredients sesame seeds, green tea etc) Practically turned me into a diabetic. Just eating a big plate of broccoli isn't going to neutralize all that grain. And "Whole grain" is 100% refined starch with a teaspoon of bran in it. If refined grain is bad then why eat it at all? Done the experiment many times. Has the same effect on blood sugar and Triglycericdes as plain old grains. There's a reproduceability crisis in science.

^^^^^^ I am in total agreement. Whole grain is another lie told to the public. It is loaded with starch. Stay away from grains as much as you can. I have genetic disposition to become diabetic but I am not. I manage my carb intake daily.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

.......


I ate that way for 22 years. (sans the spurious ingredients sesame seeds, green tea etc) Practically turned me into a diabetic. Just eating a big plate of broccoli isn't going to neutralize all that grain. And "Whole grain" is 100% refined starch with a teaspoon of bran in it. If refined grain is bad then why eat it at all? Done the experiment many times. Has the same effect on blood sugar and Triglycericdes as plain old grains. There's a reproduceability crisis in science.

This may not be the best diet for you, but whole grains are a big part of the Blue Zones diets where people live the longest and most microbiome studies seem to suggest they feed the beneficial bacteria in the gut. I have found with me that I am likely gluten sensitive, but can eat other non-gluten grains like millet okay. I have a book on how to prepare grains and beans based on traditional methods to make them more digestible. Also, some types of gut bacteria can break down whole grains, so whether whole grains work for you or not may depend on your microbiome makeup. Probiotics are an emerging treatment for celiac disease.

I used to eat lower fat and vegetarian and my cholesterol used to actually be too low, so I can see how moving back to that direction could help lower my LDL levels.

I don't know what you mean by whole grain being refined starch with a teaspoon of bran in it. The diet in the link study had people eating brown rice, barley and millet.

 

[ncbill]

People in the "Blue Zones" have been eating diets with essentially no processed foods all their lives & usually are (and have been since childhood) still vigorously exercising as part of their daily routine.

I remain skeptical how much of the above translates to adults who only adopt the above diet later in life plus whose idea of sufficient exercise is a 30-60 minute walk 3-5 days/week.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

People in the "Blue Zones" have been eating lifelong diets with essentially no processed foods & usually are (and have been since childhood) still vigorously exercising as part of their daily routine.

I remain skeptical how much of the above translates to adults who only adopt the above diet later in life plus whose idea of sufficient exercise is a 30 minute walk 3-5 days/week.

The people in the diabetes study above weren't lifelong Blue Zones residents but reversed their diabetes with plant based diet changes.


ETA: I noticed the macrobiotics - diabetes study used either no gluten or lower gluten grains than modern, corporate agribusiness wheat has, and they added in fermented foods for healthy bacteria, so that may have helped make the grains more digestible.

 

[RetiredHappy]

If it is published on the internet, it does not make it true. Grains, whole or refined, is the number cause of diabetes. High sugar fruits is the other. Counting the amount of carbs consumed each day is the key to not becoming diabetic, and for diabetics to keep healthy. I am not diabetic and I keep my carbohydrates intake to no more than 100g per day. My diabetic husband consumes no more than 40g carb per day.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

If it is published on the internet, it does not make it true. Grains, whole or refined, is the number cause of diabetes. High sugar fruits is the other. Counting the amount of carbs consumed each day is the key to not becoming diabetic, and for diabetics to keep healthy. I am not diabetic and I keep my carbohydrates intake to no more than 100g per day. My diabetic husband consumes no more than 40g carb per day.

You can believe what you want, however there are multiple citations on Pubmed of papers published in medical journals on macrobiotic diets for diabetes.

Diabetes seems to be linked to many factors beyond just carbs, especially an altered gut microbiome - "Genetic constituents, high-fat and high-energy dietary habits, and a sedentary lifestyle are three major factors that contribute to high risk of T2D. Several studies have reported gut microbiome dysbiosis as a factor in rapid progression of insulin resistance in T2D that accounts for about 90% of all diabetes cases worldwide." https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0955286318303073

Some studies show that whole grains are associated with lower diabetes risk - Can Whole Grains Help Prevent Type 2 Diabetes? – Cleveland Clinic Newsroom and also high fruit or leafy green intake - Fruit and vegetable intake and risk of type 2 diabetes mellitus: meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies - PubMed (nih.gov)

 

[ncbill]

Another important question is can the average American stay on a plant-based diet?

It's weight loss that usually "cures" the (Type II) diabetes, not the makeup of the diet.

That seems easier to achieve on low-carb, not low-fat, diets, because it's tough staying on the latter when you're hungry all the time.

 

[RetiredHappy]

Another important question is can the average American stay on a plant-based diet?

It's weight loss that usually "cures" the (Type II) diabetes, not the makeup of the diet.

That seems easier to achieve on low-carb, not low-fat, diets, because it's tough staying on the latter when you're hungry all the time.

Ever heard of skinny diabetics? Overweight people make up 85% of diabetics, the other 15% are normal weight.

 

[braumeister]

Another important question is can the average American stay on a plant-based diet?

As a carnivore, I find it quite easy.
All the animals I eat had a natural, plant-based diet.

And there is even a side benefit. The food that vegans eat grows much better when my food poops on it.

 

[RetiredHappy]

As a carnivore, I find it quite easy.
All the animals I eat had a natural, plant-based diet.

And there is even a side benefit. The food that vegans eat grows much better when my food poops on it.

 

[Gumby]

If I recall correctly, this thread is about whether to take statins, not the proper diet for preventing diabetes. Dietary threads often tend to develop poorly and get closed.

 

[REWahoo]

Dietary threads often tend to develop poorly and get closed.

Makes one wonder if the threads would develop better if they were fed the right foods.

 

[googily]

I'll get it back on track my saying that my PCP agreed today to knock my Crestor down to 10mg (from the 20 the ER prescribed). I have now scheduled a CAC as well as the echocardiogram with bubble study that the ER wanted me to do. PCP is pretty hell bent on keeping me on a statin no matter what--but she did say that if I have a 0 CAC score after my clear chest x-ray and head and neck CT angiogram, I would have more ammunition for arguing against them. Giving her my log of six days of BP readings that averaged 118/79 helped.

 

[razztazz]

I don't know what you mean by whole grain being refined starch with a teaspoon of bran in it. The diet in the link study had people eating brown rice, barley and millet.

Take a grain. It is whole. ie The husk/bran/brown component PLUS the other part. ie the 99% or so of the grain specimen that has had the husk removed. Eat "Whole grain". It is mostly, like overwhelmingly the refined part with the little bit of husk left in. Why not enjoy the real pasta ie refined, but finish with a bran chaser? Whole grain is simply the latest thing being sold to muddy the waters. What ARE the results of those zone studies if they left out the grain?

Here's an oft left unmentioned fact: NOBODY in the medietrranean eats whole grains in any quantity. I'm sure there's a dish o r two that is maybe eaten occasionally. Just like we eat here. triscuits. Ham and cheese on whole wheat. But they ain't gettin' pumped on it. ALSO, they sort of worship eggs. Eat 'em everyday. Eat 'em with everything. Especially salads and vegetables. And while they don't eat crappy fatty American-style meats they also hold meat in high regard and eat it all the time. Oh wait. They eat lots of salted cured meats that start at 50% fat content. From North Africa to Portugal to Greece and points in between. If there are pockets of people with no heart disease/diabetes etc it's for other reasons.
I cannot speak for the other zones except to say the Japan zone in all liklihood eats copiuous refined, not brown, rice and lots of animal protein as fish and the study is not presenting that. What all these people DON'T eat is.... ALL THE TIME, like Americans.

I just don't buy off on whatever "experts" say without evidence and a study and pop-science du jour is not evidence. Because, like everybody else "they say a lotta things." Aren't credentialism and appeals to authority (especially one's own, in this case "studies") two of the red flags to look for when someone is making a case? Sorry this is too long.