*Not* taking statins

[troutnut1]

My doc just prescribed 10 mg of generic Lipitor for me. Now I have to give up my favorite morning grapefruit juice

Ask your doctor about changing to rosuvastatin (Crestor) and you won’t have to give up grapefruit. It’s generic now too and I pay $9 for 90 days worth or 10mg. 5mg is equivalent to about 10 of your lipitor which is a very light dose. I was on 5mg of liptor and continued to enjoy my full grapefruit every day. Do your own research either way but I think you would be okay with either.

 

[meleana]

I was on 20mg of Atorvastatin, but suffered a lot of muscle cramps, which I already have some due to Pickleball.
I am weaning off it and will discuss alternatives with my doctor at my upcoming physical.

How does one wean off this medicine? I haven’t started taking it yet but want to be proactive and prepared just in case it doesn’t agree with me.

 

[Dtail]

How does one wean off this medicine? I haven’t started taking it yet but want to be proactive and prepared just in case it doesn’t agree with me.

I am now on 20mg Prevastatin which has less muscle cramp effects.
I went from 7x weekly to 5x weekly and still had good LDL results.
That is my "wean off" interpretation. I don't expect to not take it at all though.

 

[audreyh1]

How about this one!

High levels of cholesterol said better for longevity

The Japan Society for Lipid Nutrition has drawn up new guidelines stating that high cholesterol levels are better for living longer, defying conventional wisdom.
…..
…….. Tomohito Hamazaki, a professor at Toyama University's Institute of Natural Medicine, who compiled the new cholesterol levels guidelines for the Japan Society for Lipid Nutrition, countered Ueshima's argument. "When examining all causes of death, such as cancer, pneumonia and heart disease, the number of deaths attributable to LDL cholesterol levels exceeding 140 mg/dl is less than people with lower LDL cholesterol levels."

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2010-09-high-cholesterol-longevity.amp?__twitter_impression=true

 

[Old Microbiologist]

Audrey, Thanks for the link to the article. It corroborates what we see in real life. IMHO cholesterol is a secondary cofactor but chronic inflammation is the culprit. Lowering cholesterol may at worst actually do a great deal of harm in the long run and at best do nothing at all. It is all based on a very flawed study performed by Keys in 1953 that cherry-picked the data. https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/128/2/449S/4724049

 

[bolt]

I'm a pharma bear iykwim.

I was offered statins in iirc 91'.
I only took them for 6mo.ish.
I'll die when I die.
Its an odd 40 yrs later right now.

The human bodies chemistries quite complex, why alter w/its natural healing properties as a pharma test subject.

Good luck & Best wishes...

 

[chassis]

I haven't read all 17 pages of this thread, but rather the last couple of posts.

Statins are prescribed to reduce cholesterol, correct?

It's true that cholesterol may not be the boogeyman that it once was thought to be, correct? See some of the recent posts in this thread and on the other cholesterol thread.

Statins have undesirable side effects for some people, correct?

Don't take statins.

And, reduce your BMI into the low 20s. Then self-reassess your condition using self-ordered lab tests, combined with a phone consultation with a physician.

 

[Bongleur]

It is all based on a very flawed study performed by Keys in 1953 that cherry-picked the data. https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/128/2/449S/4724049

The article on how his son discovered the omitted data tapes:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/...basement-undermine-decades-of-dietary-advice/

Records Found in Dusty Basement Undermine Decades of Dietary Advice
Raw data from a 40-year-old study raises new questions about fats
By Sharon Begley, STAT on April 19, 2017

 

[Bongleur]

How about this one!

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2010-09-high-cholesterol-longevity.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Anyone have the actual paper or statement being talked about in that article where a Japanese lipid group has said higher cholesterol is good? The article is 11 years old - was their claim accepted?

And please, trim the tracking data before pasting a link - everything after a question mark, and the question mark, is tracking data :
?__twitter_impression=true

 

[RetiredHappy]

I haven't read all 17 pages of this thread, but rather the last couple of posts.

Statins are prescribed to reduce cholesterol, correct?

It's true that cholesterol may not be the boogeyman that it once was thought to be, correct? See some of the recent posts in this thread and on the other cholesterol thread.

Statins have undesirable side effects for some people, correct?

Don't take statins.

And, reduce your BMI into the low 20s. Then self-reassess your condition using self-ordered lab tests, combined with a phone consultation with a physician.

High cholesterol is not always a result of being overweight. Many of my friends and I are in the 18 to 21 range and have high cholesterol.

I do take a low dose statin - Atorvastatin 10mg and have zero side effects. It has brought my LDL down from 152 to 61. I work my butt off exercising and have HDL at 67. I am cutting down on carbs to get my normal range triglycerides down further to double digits and my next lab test will tell me what it is going to be. I also have LDL pattern A, the good one. I am sticking to low LDL being a good thing.

 

[audreyh1]

Anyone have the actual paper or statement being talked about in that article where a Japanese lipid group has said higher cholesterol is good? The article is 11 years old - was their claim accepted?

And please, trim the tracking data before pasting a link - everything after a question mark, and the question mark, is tracking data :
?__twitter_impression=true

OK - you are right I thought that was current as it was recently shared.

Didn’t know about the tracking. Thanks.

 

[googily]

I haven't read all 17 pages of this thread, but rather the last couple of posts.

Statins are prescribed to reduce cholesterol, correct?

It's true that cholesterol may not be the boogeyman that it once was thought to be, correct? See some of the recent posts in this thread and on the other cholesterol thread.

Statins have undesirable side effects for some people, correct?

Don't take statins.

And, reduce your BMI into the low 20s. Then self-reassess your condition using self-ordered lab tests, combined with a phone consultation with a physician.

Not everyone who is overweight has high cholesterol, or heart disease. Signed, person with normal levels and a BMI of 29.

 

[chassis]

Not everyone who is overweight has high cholesterol, or heart disease. Signed, person with normal levels and a BMI of 29.

@googily Do you take statins?

 

[googily]

@googily Do you take statins?

Nope. Coronary calcium score of zero.

 

[RetiredHappy]

Not everyone who is overweight has high cholesterol, or heart disease. Signed, person with normal levels and a BMI of 29.

Didn't you post a while ago that your doctor wanted you to go on statin because of high cholesterol but since your Coronary Calcium Score is 0 and your PCP backed off??

 

[googily]

Didn't you post a while ago that your doctor wanted you to go on statin because of high cholesterol but since your Coronary Calcium Score is 0 and your PCP backed off??

Cholesterol was measured high in the ER when I wasn't fasted. Measured again a few weeks later and all was normal.

It used to be high, I'm not saying it never has been. But it isn't now. And with that CAC score, it likely hasn't been causing much CVD even when it was high.

 

[Pellice]

I just got my results back from my annual bloodwork. I don't think I will be able to fend off the statins this time. My cholesterol is high as are my triglycerides. I have been resisting a statin because my mother believed her health deteriorated after taking one, and she begged me never to take them.

But I did make a modest effort with diet this time, to no avail. I'm normal weight, active, and feel great in my mid-60s, few aches and pains, sleep well, no problems eating or digesting. But that high cholesterol has persisted.

I already take a blood pressure pill. Taking two pills just seems like asking for trouble, but I think I'm at that point. I wonder if a coronary calcium score would help.

 

[Exchme]

I had the heart scan done to get the calcium score and it found one artery with a moderate amount of build-up. That completely surprised me, I didn't think I had any problems like that, so I ended up on statins.

The insurance company absolutely would not pay for the scan though, so I think it was $140 out of pocket (even though I was at 100%). The scan reported some other anomalies that required additional tests (which showed there was nothing to worry about). That may be why insurance doesn't like it, it takes perfectly normal folks and drives them to see more specialists and do even more tests.

 

[gooddog]

I just got my results back from my annual bloodwork. I don't think I will be able to fend off the statins this time. My cholesterol is high as are my triglycerides. I have been resisting a statin because my mother believed her health deteriorated after taking one, and she begged me never to take them.

But I did make a modest effort with diet this time, to no avail. I'm normal weight, active, and feel great in my mid-60s, few aches and pains, sleep well, no problems eating or digesting. But that high cholesterol has persisted.

I already take a blood pressure pill. Taking two pills just seems like asking for trouble, but I think I'm at that point. I wonder if a coronary calcium score would help.

I would encourage you to look in to the medication colesevelam hydrochloride. This medication has great efficacy in reducing cholesterol, especially the 'bad' cholesterol. The medication works via binding to bile salts within the GI tract, and the medication only interacts with the GI tract (not outside it) so there aren't a lot of side effects. Due to the medication being trapped inside the GI tract (the molecule is simply too big to escape, unless you have something like leaky gut) there is no metabolization by the kidney or liver. This lack of metabolization means there is no ill effects on either of these organs. How it works...the binding of bile salts 'fools' the body into thinking it needs to produce more bile. Cholesterol is appropriated and converted to bile - thus lowering cholesterol levels. The one common side effect of colesevelam hydrochloride is constipation, so be aware of that. There is also a lesser side effect of skeletal muscle cramping. The trade name for this medication is Welchol. It is an older medication. Sun Pharma and Zydis both make very good generics of this. Avoid the generic that WalMart carries. Hope this is helpful.

 

[RetiredHappy]

I just got my results back from my annual bloodwork. I don't think I will be able to fend off the statins this time. My cholesterol is high as are my triglycerides. I have been resisting a statin because my mother believed her health deteriorated after taking one, and she begged me never to take them.

But I did make a modest effort with diet this time, to no avail. I'm normal weight, active, and feel great in my mid-60s, few aches and pains, sleep well, no problems eating or digesting. But that high cholesterol has persisted.

I already take a blood pressure pill. Taking two pills just seems like asking for trouble, but I think I'm at that point. I wonder if a coronary calcium score would help.

To lower triglycerides is very straight forward - reduce carbohydrates intake. Keep it below 100 g per day for a start. LDL is closely tied to genes. Reducing saturated fats intake helps a little. I do take a low dose atorvastatin - 10mg. It does wonders for my LDL. It went from 140 to 50. Kidneys and liver numbers are excellent.

 

[Koolau]

To lower triglycerides is very straight forward - reduce carbohydrates intake. Keep it below 100 g per day for a start. LDL is closely tied to genes. Reducing saturated fats intake helps a little. I do take a low dose atorvastatin - 10mg. It does wonders for my LDL. It went from 140 to 50. Kidneys and liver numbers are excellent.

With CAD, I'm on the 80 mg statin. I think my last check, my number was like 20! Hope that's not TOO low.

 

[RetiredHappy]

With CAD, I'm on the 80 mg statin. I think my last check, my number was like 20! Hope that's not TOO low.

Ask your doctor.

 

[Old Microbiologist]

The entire subject is controversial. I am in the camp that believes CAD is caused by inflammation. Personally, I believe this inflammation is caused by high sugar intake and that cholesterol is an associative finding and not the cause. I have been full keto diet now for almost 2 years and am in perfect health. I eat less than 20 grams of carbs per day and so far no problems. It also looks like elevated cholesterol is a normal finding as we age. But we also see the results of a lifetime of bad eating and health habits. It takes years to become insulin resistant and of course, takes a long time to reverse that.

I believe statins are if not useless may actually cause problems. When you interfere with a normal body process there are consequences. Cholesterol is a necessary component and even if you eat zero cholesterol you can have elevated levels. The real evil is sugar.

 

[Chuckanut]

I do take a low dose atorvastatin - 10mg. It does wonders for my LDL. It went from 140 to 50. Kidneys and liver numbers are excellent.

I suggest two things for you to research:

1. Look up the 6% rule in regards to statins. Basically, the lowest dose gets you the biggest bang for the dose. After that each doubling of the dose reduces cholesterol by six percentage points. I take 10 mg per day, the smallest dose and that gets me a big drop .

https://gpnotebook.com/simplepage.cfm?ID=x20130329085000685340

if the dose of a statin is doubled then there is an approximate 6% increase in LDL lowering efficacy by doubling the dose - the so-called 6 percent rule

• for example
  • rosuvastatin statin 5mg produces an approximate LDL reduction of 40% - if the dose of rosuvastin is doubled to 10mg then there is an approximate 46% LDL reduction expected with this dose of rosuvastatin
  • pravastatin 20mg produces an approximate LDL reduction of 24% - if the dose of pravastatin is doubled to 40mg then there is an approximate 30% LDL reduction expected with this dose of pravastatin
• the "6 percent rule" holds approximately for all statins (1,2)

2.) Read Dr. Lustig's book - Metabolical. IMO, people should look at the entire area of metabolic disease not just cholesterol and a statin pill. I have followed his work for years and overall find him a good (not perfect) source of information. He makes the case that it's not the food, but what they do to the food that is messing us up. Ummm.... you may have to improve your cooking skills.

+1 on lowering carbs and trig results.

 

[John Galt III]

I just got my results back from my annual bloodwork. I don't think I will be able to fend off the statins this time. My cholesterol is high as are my triglycerides. I have been resisting a statin because my mother believed her health deteriorated after taking one, and she begged me never to take them.

But I did make a modest effort with diet this time, to no avail. I'm normal weight, active, and feel great in my mid-60s, few aches and pains, sleep well, no problems eating or digesting. But that high cholesterol has persisted.

I already take a blood pressure pill. Taking two pills just seems like asking for trouble, but I think I'm at that point. I wonder if a coronary calcium score would help.

What are your numbers? I use old fashioned oatmeal porridge every morning to keep my cholesterol down. Still have bacon and eggs too. This year my total chol was 'only' 230. Not too bad. Last year it was 210, because I was eating twice as much oatmeal. I had to cut back on the oatmeal due to digestive concerns. I take one capsule of fishoil per day to keep triglycerides down. Used to take more than one per day, but that causes a different problem I won't mention here. So, fish oil and oatmeal are my suggestions. My doc no longer nags me to go on statins, since I got my numbers down with diet.